New Support Items and why they favor Damage Supports stopping at 1000g

Illabethe·1/4/2020, 2:53:28 AM·18 votes·11,013 views

I don't know why no one did this yet, but I had a long argument with a Forumer, which got me to create a form that illustrates what was "Possible" under both item regimes (Season 9 Spellthief vs Season 10)

#One Caveat: This is assuming the support played correctly in Season 9, and didn't farm, but that the adc also stayed in lane and didn't create windows of 0 income.

The results are actually interesting:

Two Items being held equal in recalls, and adcs/supports in unison:

#The item incomes break even at 14:40 after considering the 450G upgrade. After that, it's a pure uphill windfall for 9.0

[img]https://i.imgur.com/GFwz2ws.png[/img] https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YZjSDeOIs6yYoS2qZvtBNWNYONAqyEMy/view?usp=sharing


**This illustration is pretty easy to follow (at 40 minutes, the opportunity of 9.0 exceeds 10.0 by 3150 Gold - That is to say a support that now finishes 40 minutes at 9500 would have ended the game at potentially 12610 gold) ** #(That's 226 small minions worth of gold!)


This leads to the second part of the title:

  1. People will make the argument that Supports aren't supposed to CS, and thus there is no difference in Damage supports vs Utility Supports.

#I argue that people will do whatever favors their own personal impact on their team. If that means a damage support getting 100-130 additional CS to supplement their expensive purchases, they will do it!

  1. Utility Supports by and large do not have impactful kits to create farm. If Soraka Q's a wave, it at best half HP's, and she might secure 3 of 7 CS at best, considering her low AD growth, whereas if Zyra hits a wave, she will almost 100% secure it.

#3) Because of the above mentioned disparity, support items now favor damage supports in income. After the 1000G mark, Enchanters basically lose all income but assists. Damage supports get those assists too, but they also farm 70-100 more minions, and get about twice as many kills as an enchanter.


Basically what this boils down to in Season 10 League:

Unless Gold items gain back the post 1000g Gold, Utility Supports are going to have to finish games EARLY (more or less wrap up a game by 14-17 minutes to end by 20-24 minutes to maintain win rates). The longer the game, the more limiting these items are on utility supports.

The Damage supports on the other hand, will continue to farm, use kill incomes, and supplement the early income advantage and actually be able to turn it into a snowball (see Senna, Zyra, Vek Koz)

This disparity won't always result in WIn rate advantages for late game Damage supports, but it will directly impact how Riot Balances them! If they are languishing at 50% or less win rate, it's VERY likely that Riot might buff them, even with a superior gold income, and result in an OVER BUFF.

#Riot really just needs to put back in the post 1000G income. I've gotten 1000G on the new items in 12 minutes (almost perfect item use). And then spent 17 minutes of a game gaining only 1000g per 5 minutes, not getting rewarded for my performance.

41 Comments

ModAcademy Kayn1/4/2020, 3:05:57 AM7 votes

How exactly do you propose adding in a way for enchanters/tanks/folk not as easily being able to farm as damage supports without Damage Supports getting that same access to income as well?

Alternatively, isn't that the entire reason why support items are typically cheaper by a good 500-800 gold compared to most damage support items? And when Damage supports get kills, that gold is going towards the support as opposed to the carry, so either way the enemy team gets gold, it's just the bigger chunk is going towards a mage instead of an ADC.

FakeGravity1/4/2020, 3:42:30 AM3 votes

why not give the support items an effect that also triggers if they heal or shield damage while an enemy is relatively close? sure mage and other "supports" might feel left out but they already get to one shot enchanters so screw them

Support Position1/4/2020, 6:00:16 AM3 votes

I feel like they need to make the quests just last indefinitely at this point. Like how they used to. (Obtain 500G. Get the ward. Continue getting gold from killing a minion with a stack, hitting an enemy with a stack.) dont understand why this was removed in the first place. The healing and extra damage was removed (im happy about this some aren't.) making them way more balanced, however the gold generation is practically 0.

So, I feel the need of urgency for income in the same way the quests are done forever. Needs to be in the game. Tier 3 should have the quest line of "Earn more gold!" and it just keeps track of how much your getting. Really not that hard. Don't get any more rewards from it other than the quest for money since you already got the 4 wards...

Riots kinda small brain though :/

CuddleAndCookies1/4/2020, 7:46:46 PM2 votes

And then you go and look up stat and see that Enchanters and tank-grab-engages are doing way better than ''dmg' supports.

Only game phase they are as good as 'standard' supports is early-mid, after that they fall-off and are bottom feeders past 25-30 min.

Sure they as any other can out-play and hard-win early-mid, snowball and end game like a boss... On that note enchanters are top-tier in snowball potential in the game...

WoonStruck1/4/2020, 11:31:20 PM2 votes

Meanwhile enchanters are dominating with their winrates.

pureMJ1/15/2020, 8:31:46 PM1 votes

FIRSTLY, damaging support right now is really under power and needs a heavy buff.

Secondly, currently the item is NOT favoring damaging support. In fact, it strongly disfavors damaging support.

Take my main zyra as an example. Before the major change, I get 10% cdr from the item, and in a 30 mins game I'm able to get 2000 gold while opponent usually can only get around 800. Now, I got no cdr. I got 1000 gold cap and opponent also get 1000 gold. I'M GETTING 1200 LESS GOLD ADVANTAGE NOW!

My lead early in lane becomes quite irrelevant to the game. I only have one chance to cash my lead, that is when I got 1000 gold and my opponent get only 500 gold, I call for some decisive team fight.

If this did not happen, for whatever reason (team does not want to group? opponent team has better pushing?...), then My lead is gone and late game i'm a very weak champion. And worse, since there is no more gold generation, I won't be able to get more items, game becomes quite boring.

2gudaiya1/5/2020, 2:45:11 PM1 votes

you don't need the season 9 gold because you get support item upgrades for free. it's really that simple.

Care2Share1/6/2020, 1:13:11 AM1 votes

Hmmmm a few issues I think some criticism would help tweak out some ideas

So the biggest issue I think that would solve all of this is to make sure all of your enchanters can clear wave ( DECENTLY ) around lvl 8-9. By decently I mean with an Athene's, CDR boots, the back archers should be at LEAST 1-2 autos to death from an enchanters Main ability (Lulu Q, Janna tornado full power, Nami bubble)

Reasons Level 8-9 ( really 7 but im being nice) is where a LOT of dmg supports really start to shine (and kill the other supp) and get WAY more gold than enchanters. By this point your adc is backing ( or dead) you probably are roaming and helping clear a wave or 2 cant really harm much.

Why the hell can't all enchanters clear decently?!?!?!? Yuumi is the WORST offender of this shes a walking ward that can heal. Make her Q like Kog'maw Ult (No execute/ obvi lower scaling and blah blah and also give it different target areas while attached OR make it a long range TINY target box stun with a medium time CD) so she can at least clear minions. I think just about every other Enchanter Supp can clear effectively with this idea

Tanky Supps These Hoes Aside from ruining my lane experience as an enchanter fan I do enjoy a good tank bot lane. But the only real thing thats lacking is again a way for a LOT of them to clear. Give them a passive minions only cinderhulk on full Supp item build that means these 2 items (Pauldrons of Whiterock & Black Mist Scythe) that way they can clear. This cinderhulk CANNOT kill minions but only lightly dmg them so they can decently clear.

Reasons Would force more interactions (maybe even bump the gold per AA to 20) make IT APPEALING. Being a tank is fun for some people but others the reward is lack luster and not worth the hassle. (as a casual player).

This seems like a really simple fix game-play wise, I honestly believe we have the answers right in front of us. Allowing enchanters to clear won't ruin really anything aside from games not lasting so long but shrugs

WTBeGirl100EUhr1/4/2020, 11:10:07 AM1 votes

The reason this comparison is unfair is that tell me - what Janna or Soraka was ever proccing spellthiefs on cd mid game? Brand could maybe do it, Vel'koz maybe could do it but these 2 have abilities with good range. Janna, Soraka, Nami or any of these other enchanter supports would die because they simply do not have the same range. Even in lane you're not getting it completely off of cd especially if you're losing.

Riot stated - whether you believe it or not - that the 3 gp/10 is roughly the same gold income as what supports where actually getting in practical terms. I personally feel like that's low balling old gold income, but it isn't "226 minions" in a 40 minute game. On which note, the 9.5k gold in 40 minutes after the patch is still really, really low. 800g boots, 450g on support item and 4 items usually not more than 2400g makes support builds around 11000g.