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@Low Elo Posters

ømg·1/12/2017, 12:25:30 AM·17 votes·2,789 views

Can you stop making balance suggestions when you don't know anything about the game? I'm too low elo to make balance suggestions, but the difference is that I actually recognize that so I don't make suggestions. The majority of you are so low elo that you are unable to comprehend that your bronze - mid Diamond experience means absolutely nothing and that challenger/pro players are playing a different game.

There are far too many QQ shitposts in Gameplay and Balance, the saddest part is that they're not even intentional, but rather made out of ignorance.

[Edit]: Key points are (Warning: walls of text)

High elo players are the best that we have to work with. Sure they're not knowledgeable in everything, but a challenger support main has a much better idea of how the game should be balanced than a silver support main, simply because they are actually seeing what is actually strong or weak. A silver player is not playing the same game as challenger players because in silver champion potential is always left unrealized. As a result they have a distorted sense of what is strong or weak.

This also ties into balancing from top down and why it's better (this is for people who keep on insisting that we balance for the majority of players instead of for the best). Not only does it undermine competitive integrity if you balance from the bottom up (competitive players will have to deal with extremely imbalanced champions) but you cannot get a good idea of how strong a champion is when you have confounding variables. Imagine that you believe a champion is weak, but is it weak because

1.) Champion is actually weak 2.) Players are too shit to use the champion 3.) Champion is new and people have completely adapted to it yet

So 3 can be ruled out as the reason (or at least part of the reason) for why the champion is weak once given enough time. If you cater your balancing for silver players, you need to consider 2, which then means we don't know if the champion is ACTUALLY weak or if the players are just to shit to use the champion. What happens if you cater your balancing for the best players? Then you can rule out 2, because players at that level are able to realize the champion's full potential. Therefore if the champion is still struggling at the highest levels of play, we can say that it's truely because a champion is weak and not because of anything else.

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And also, if I am so bad and not playing my champ to full potential and neither is my opponent, then we could still make accurate statements about their strengths/weaknesses and if something is out of balance.

No. A low-skill Riven will be way worse than an equally low-skill Malphite. A low-skill Zac will be way better than a low-skill Lee Sin. When you're at a low-skill rank, champions do not perform equally despite everyone being low skilled.

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[{quoted}](name=Fate Fire,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=QugMEt3p,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-01-12T00:48:42.917+0000)

A dwarf on the shoulders of a giant will see farther than the giant himself. That being said, every person has a blind spot so everyone's opinions should be held at an equal level. Dividing people into "elos" shows that you have no respect for the players themselves and hold a higher value to a rank over experience.

Let's say you have two people, one is a Bronze V Draven who has played him since release, then you have the Diamond I Draven who's playing him first time. Who's word would you trust more, the one who's played them more or the one who's played the game more? Skill and Knowledge are two separate things. Just because you made it up there does not make you instantly knowledgeable of the entire game.

Except your analogy fails because there is a positive relationship between height and eyesight. If the dwarf represents a bronze player and the giant represents a challenger player, then the dwarf would have the eyes of a human while the giant would have the eyes of a hawk.

You are both looking at the "same thing", except the bronze player will miss all the details while the challenger player will be able to see them. Bronze players will watch a high level replay and fail to grasp the reasoning behind a player's actions. A challenger player will watch a replay understand the player's motive for their actions.

125 Comments

jaymc11301/12/2017, 9:11:43 PM8 votes

+1

TheFallenShaw1/12/2017, 12:33:05 AM8 votes

reporting your post due to being offensive towards your so called "low ello". The fact it applys to me is irrevant. No player has the right to tell others what they can or can not post. You are dirrespectful of your fellow players. Talking down to them because you maybe better at the game. You should be helping people become better players if your so consern not downing them.

HazyCloud71/12/2017, 12:34:27 AM7 votes

You should've said stop making balance suggestions based on anecdotal experience. Even a bronze player can make a high quality suggestion if they support their argument with math/stats/analysis of the meta.

1wolfpack1/12/2017, 12:30:05 AM6 votes

why do pros have coaches? the coaches have a better understanding of the game but dont have the mechanics to be a pro.

Lauchmelder1/12/2017, 9:48:50 AM5 votes

So if bronze to diamond play a different game and Master + Challenger are somewhere in the 0.1 percentile why should the game be balanced for those 0.1% instead of the 99.9%?

Risk of Fate1/12/2017, 12:48:42 AM5 votes

A dwarf on the shoulders of a giant will see farther than the giant himself. That being said, every person has a blind spot so everyone's opinions should be held at an equal level. Dividing people into "elos" shows that you have no respect for the players themselves and hold a higher value to a rank over experience.

Let's say you have two people, one is a Bronze V Draven who has played him since release, then you have the Diamond I Draven who's playing him first time. Who's word would you trust more, the one who's played them more or the one who's played the game more? Skill and Knowledge are two separate things. Just because you made it up there does not make you instantly knowledgeable of the entire game.

SGT Dingle Berry1/12/2017, 12:50:34 AM4 votes

The majority of players fall under the low elo category and imo that's where champion balancing should be taken into account. Higher elo players have a broader understanding of the game mechanics and could use Aatrox with larger success than a low elo could with a Poppy. An unbalanced champion makes a MUCH larger splash in the lower ranks.

Shifue Draven1/12/2017, 7:54:26 AM3 votes

Well considering if you look at my games where i don't have brain dead trolls which is why i am quitting ranked for a bit. Doesn't mean i can't play the game well or have an option on champ balance.You can play normals for all i care and make a post on it cause if you're playing and you notice the same crap every game the elo does not matter. Best example look at poppy. It was mostly lower elo players making the complaint and sure enough they were right honestly one game facing her made me see how broken she is with COC and her own shield. So i mean i don't think telling someone that they are not valid cause they are on the lower end is right at all. That is kinda like saying since you work at Mcdonalds you suck at life so you do not matter.

ZephyrDrake1/12/2017, 9:53:32 AM2 votes

garbage thread thinking that only high elo people's opinion mattered

TFW you realize that most high elo people who post on threads have even less idea of what they are talking about than a bronze player [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]