Balancing Attack Range and Movement Speed

I Feast Tonight··2 votes·1,730 views

I have noticed a general problem that affects just about every champion in League of Legends. That problem revolves around attack range and movement speed. I am going to list 10 champions' statistics involving these 2 things.

Caitlyn 650 attack range; 325 movement speed Mordekaiser 175 attack range; 325 movement speed Maokai 125 attack range; 335 movement speed Brand 550 attack range; 340 movement speed Darius 175 attack range; 340 movement speed Thresh 450 attack range; 335 movement speed Olaf 125 attack range; 350 movement speed Nautilus 175 attack range; 325 movement speed Velkoz 525 attack range; 340 movement speed Zac 175 attack range; 340 movement speed

Do you see the problem? While it's not always the case, there are many ranged champions that are faster than melee champions. Now, these numbers have a pretty small difference when it comes to movement speed, but the gap enlarges when you consider how not only are most movement speed items percent increases, but there are also more movement speed items for ranged champions than melee champions. This makes a gap that keeps getting bigger and bigger until a melee champion has around 380 movement speed and a ranged champion has around 420 movement speed.

So, it's pretty obvious that the higher one's attack range is, the lower the movement speed should be, but what numbers should they be? I have worked out a series of numbers I think would be balanced. Another note, I think it is an unwise idea to go above 600 attack range as you would be able to use Rapidfire Cannon to attack a turret without ever getting attacked back.

AR: | 125 | 145 | 165 | 185 | 205 | 225 | 245 | 265 | 285 | 305 | 325 | 345 | 365 | 385 | 405 | 425 | 445 | 465 | 485 | 505 | 525 | 545 | 565 | 585 MS:| 375 | 370 | 365 | 360 | 355 | 350 | 345 | 340 | 335 | 330 | 325 | 320 | 315 | 310 | 305 | 300 | 295 | 290 | 285 | 280 | 275 | 270 | 265 | 260

With the changes to these numbers, it would not be necessary, but would increase the potency to also adjust the number of movement speed items that are meant for melee champions versus ranged champions. item 3100 item 3041 item 3046 item 3094 item 3800 item 3085 item 3087 item 3095 item 3071 item 3078 item 3142 item 3907

With this update, it would cause another problem. Turrets simply don't pose enough of a threat to ward off divers. Some updates to turrets would need implemented. These are changes to 3 statistics I would implement. (Important note: ordinarily, the damage and armor and magic resistance increase over time, but I don't see any need for it as time brings turrets.)

Turret: | Outer | Inner | Inhibitor | Nexus Damage: | 200 | 225 | 275 | 325 Health: | 3800 | 3600 | 3300 | 3000 A/MR: | 60 | 60 | 60 | 60

10 Comments

iiGazeii2 votes

Have you considered that many melee champions have more health and/or more attack damage than ranged champions? Range and movement speed aren't the only factors here. For a lot of melee champions, their attack hurt a lot more as a reward for being able to get that close, and they actually have the HP pool to get that close. There's also mobility to keep in mind. Even though Vel'Koz has the same movement speed as Zac, Zac can easily get himself into melee range or out of a dangerous situation, but Vel'Koz is incredibly immobile.

As far as turrets go, they're getting updated in the next patch. More damage, and the first turrets have more health and additional armor/MR that gets stronger the lower they get. Making the turrets later on more powerful would slow down the game considerably and basically force a team with a decisive advantage to also take Baron in order to close it out.

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

Have you considered that many melee champions have more health and/or more attack damage than ranged champions?

health and attack damage of a melee champion are irelevant when the melee champion cant get in range of anyone though.

nasus could have 900 ad and 5000 health. if hes never capable of getting into melee range to apply that damage, then he just dies a bit slower without having any impact.

thats why range is such an obscenely powerful stat, and people just like to disregard how powerful it really is and often take it for granted.

DaBooosh

There's also mobility to keep in mind.

Brand Zoe Heimerdinger Cassiopeia Ryze Syndra KogMaw TwistedFate Ziggs Xayah Twitch Vladimir Taliyah Swain Sivir Orianna Malzahar MissFortune Morgana Jinx Jhin

vs.

Zac Akali Camille Ahri Aatrox Ekko Fizz Irelia Leblanc LeeSin Lissandra Skarner (predator)Nocturne (ultimate)Riven MonkeyKing (W ability)Zed Yasuo Tryndamere Renekton Nidalee Katarina Irelia Evelynn

There are so many gapclosers built in to bruisers',tanks' and assassins' kits. Movespeed is simply not enough to escape those champions

Critmaster Garen2 votes

{quoted}

Brand Zoe Heimerdinger Cassiopeia Ryze Syndra KogMaw TwistedFate Ziggs Xayah Twitch Vladimir Taliyah Swain Sivir Orianna Malzahar MissFortune Morgana Jinx Jhin

vs.

Zac Akali Camille Ahri Aatrox Ekko Fizz Irelia Leblanc LeeSin Lissandra Skarner (predator)Nocturne (ultimate)Riven MonkeyKing (W ability)Zed Yasuo Tryndamere Renekton Nidalee Katarina Irelia Evelynn

There are so many gapclosers built in to bruisers',tanks' and assassins' kits. Movespeed is simply not enough to escape those champions

youre saying most of those ranged champions you listed arent mobile?

Zoe picks up enemy flashes and can flash multiple times per fight.

Jhin runs at fucking mach 5 across the rift right now.

Jinx has basically summoner ghost as her passive as soon as she just gets a random assist off the aoe damage on her rockets.

Sivir has it on her ult.

Ziggs has his bomb jump.

Ryze has a large shield and movement speed buff from his passive.

Cassiopeia gains increased movement speed from her passive and q.

if youre actually listing champions like Aatrox with a micro dash on his e or Lissandra with her slow as shit and telegraphed e as mobile, then all those other champions i listed there count as even more mobile.

otherwise its just cherry picking on your part.

and what about all the champions who are ranged and actually mobile? Vayne Kaisa Caitlyn Tristana Ezreal Kalista Kindred Lucian Quinn

just among the marksmen?

DaBooosh

Burst damage. It's so high, a shield or quick movement speed is honestly pretty much irrelevant. Even these carries you listed don't really compare to the type of mobility these other champions have. Camille can literally jump from bot to top. You can't even see when Zac comes to gank. While Yasuo and Irelia have endless dashes that allow them to run you down so easily.

These mobile carries you listed have a bit of safety, especially during the early game, but their health is way too low to make them 'unbalanced' they only build pure damage. If their movement speed was lowered, it would make repositioning much more difficult, and with assassins killing people in 1/2 a second, they absolutely need to position properly. It would be impossible for carries to properly deal damage and kite if they were that slow.

Zoe picks up enemy flashes and can flash multiple times per fight.

She has to get to them first. She'll put herself in a very dangerous position when she tries to go for some of them

runs at fucking mach 5 across the rift right now.

Above

has basically summoner ghost as her passive as soon as she just gets a random assist off the aoe damage on her rockets.

^

has it on her ult.

Cooldown? Pretty much all carries take flash, almost every game.

has his bomb jump.

Think that makes a difference? How far does he jump? Any champion can use a blast cone.

The actually mobile champions you listed (see above) can use their mobility to escape, but for most: Kai'sa only has E, her ult is very unreliable for disengaging. Only in very specific situations can it be used Vayne is VERY weak early, and that tiny dash really doesn't do much against the mobility currently existing

The rest I am too lazy to argue against, but Kalista? Do you really think she can save herself with that? It makes teamfighting and skirmishes a bit easier, but escape Nocturne Ult? Zed? Not even other marksmen.

Anyway, you get the point, some marksmen may be mobile, burst damage and mobility from assassins does counter that.

if youre actually listing champions like with a micro dash on his e or with her slow as shit and telegraphed e as mobile, then all those other champions i listed there count as even more mobile.

otherwise its just cherry picking on your part.

picks up enemy flashes and can flash multiple times per fight.

runs at fucking mach 5 across the rift right now.

has basically summoner ghost as her passive as soon as she just gets a random assist off the aoe damage on her rockets. has it on her ult.

has his bomb jump.

has a large shield and movement speed buff from his passive.

gains increased movement speed from her passive and q.

How many champions did I list? Which marksman can escape a Nocturne ultimate? Taliyah Ultimate? TF Ultimate? Predator? Tell me. Who's cherry picking?

The movement speed is balanced. Marksmen have low health so they get damage, speed and range to compensate for the huge disadvantage. Bruisers and tanks on the other hand, have an enormous amount of health, so they're slower and mostly melee(of course, there are a few exceptions, like Gnar Gangplank but damage is limited from further away, while marksmen deal consistent damage, at melee or max range.). They also deal more damage because it would be pointless if they could not kill an AD carry from melee. The gapclosers allow them to get to the carries.

LittlePinkKitten1 votes

So your problem is you don't like that ranged characters don't move slowly enough to be sitting ducks for melee champions. Well if your theory was correct, then why are ranged characters not in all of the top 10 of characters. Lets not mention that most melee champions normally have spells to help them close that game. You want ranged normally with lower health to also to be less mobile. Your idea would kill the game for all ranged champions. Its funny how you never mentioned Zyra or Annie in those, Annie has no escape nor does Zyra, they have rely on a flash, movement speed to get out, if you nerf that, then what are they meant to do. Just fight every-time. See the secret of ranged characters is they are ranged and if they get closed down on, they either have to kill you or die a lot time.

Here is suggestion, how about we Nerf all ranged characters movement speed but we remove all spells that melee champs have that close any distance or gap apart from flash.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

{quoted}

So your problem is you don't like that ranged characters don't move slowly enough to be sitting ducks for melee champions. Well if your theory was correct, then why are ranged characters not in all of the top 10 of characters. Lets not mention that most melee champions normally have spells to help them close that game. You want ranged normally with lower health to also to be less mobile. Your idea would kill the game for all ranged champions. Its funny how you never mentioned Zyra or Annie in those, Annie has no escape nor does Zyra, they have rely on a flash, movement speed to get out, if you nerf that, then what are they meant to do. Just fight every-time. See the secret of ranged characters is they are ranged and if they get closed down on, they either have to kill you or die a lot time.

Here is suggestion, how about we Nerf all ranged characters movement speed but we remove all spells that melee champs have that close any distance or gap apart from flash.

my problem is, that auto attack range has been THE core of this games problems from the beginning.

other games like dota 2 have mechanics, like champion turn rates that counteract auto attack range and limit its effectiveness. thats why ranged carries and melee carries can exist at the same time in those games without ranged carries automatically being stronger by default. in league there is no such mechanic.

in this game, ranged carries are balanced by having other champions like assassins and mages as their counter mechanic, to keep them in check. however this has lead to very binary gameplay, where either the ranged carries are incredibly oppressive and warp the entire game around them when they cant be taken down easily (even when they can be taken down theyre practically mandatory to every team; during the entire early season 7 when people were spamming the "adc2k17" meme they were still good enough to "only" be played alongside other champion types on bot), or assassins are overwhelming and these ranged carries basically dont get to play the game.

ive been playing this game since before season 1, and ranged carries have been the source of most of this games balance issues from the start.

Ashe was THE champion who started the entire mobility creep and warranted almost every melee champion to be equipped with a gap closer, because her slow used to invalidate every melee champion without one. this lead to the situation, that melee champions were going from NEVER being able to close the gap to the new ones ALWAYS being able to close the gap, and they started putting mobility onto their new ranged champions which brought us back to step 1. then riot repeated the same with hard cc and utility by first equipping melee champions with it, then adc.

this game hasnt changed since then in any regard and just bounced between assassins reliably killing adc, or adc being batshit broken like in most of season 7 because their counters couldnt deal with them anymore.

I Feast Tonight1 votes

{quoted}

As far as turrets go, they're getting updated in the next patch. More damage, and the first turrets have more health and additional armor/MR that gets stronger the lower they get. Making the turrets later on more powerful would slow down the game considerably and basically force a team with a decisive advantage to also take Baron in order to close it out.

I don't think the game will slow down all that much because minions take turret damage as percent of their max health rather than the ordinary numbers. While it's true decisive team fights involving a turret may be more hazardous, the minion cover when pushing a turret would remain the same.

Also, the turrets already get more powerful as you get closer to the nexus. The health of the outer and inner turrets are the same as they are now. The inhibitor and nexus turrets have a little more than they do now, but all the turrets would have a stable amount of armor and magic resistance (60). Right now, from 55 to 70 by 40 minutes in the game. As a result, by the time an inhibitor turret is usually reached, it already has 65 armor and magic resistance, thus the toughness receives little-to-no change. The toughness changes actually make them overall less vulnerable at the beginning of the game but more vulnerable at the end, finishing the game consistently between 30-45 minutes.

Slythrin Umbreon1 votes

Part of the problem is that some of these are just bad examples. Morde specifically has less MS then he "should" because that's more or less just how he's "supposed" to be. There's probably a better way of putting that, but it's not that Cait's speed is too high, Morde's just slower then Melee. On purpose. Is what I'm trying to say.

Many of the other melee champions you mention are tanks, and have low MS because they have some REALLY powerful gap closers. If anything, honestly Maybe Zac's should be reverted lower...

And on the other hand, Brand and Vel'koz are faster then most other mages because they have poor methods of defending themselves compared to most other mages.

Mordepool1 votes

Im very surprised you didnt include Hyper Mobile Irelia

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