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Rate dat Ashe - General discussion on her current state

Elikain·2/1/2016, 9:47:30 PM·4 votes·829 views

Hello everyone! I'll just get straight to the problem: Ashe doesn't seem to be a decent pick right now.

  • Q: Having to absolutely use 4 AAs to use this skill. In certain matchups or team comps, you can't even afford to get into AA range and then you are left with only one damage ability - Volley. How fun can it be playing a game where your kit is reduced to 1 ability? Protip: Hurricane counts Caitlyn's 1 AA as 3 for her passive (same goes for Jinx's Pow Pow AS buff) BUT does not affect Ashe's Q stacks whatsoever.

  • Passive: No longer auto-crits for Frosted targets, but just modfies damage based off crit. Her crits double down on her slow which when you look at the restriction (and the removal of her double slow) on Q, makes kiting even less of a problem for the enemies in her range unless she has decent damage, AS and crit to fight them off.

  • Movement speed: With the Q restriction and no double slows until you get some crit, her overall fragile nature and movement speed is her own enemy. Especially with the rise of Swifties and free % MS from Runic Echos. Swifties directly counter the potency of her already weakened kiting utility. Also assassins - her kit not being reliable at keeping them off or even stopping them (or anyone else) for a 1-2 seconds at best.

  • E: Quite the long CD on later levels and offering nothing more then vision projectiles.

  • R: Long CD. Not reliable across-lane pressure (if you're not an experienced Ashe main). Encouraged to shoot if farther for a longer stun, not a decent defensive option (if you're pressured in using it to escape), you'll almost always end up getting killed anyway - your opponents are double rewarded.

Summary:

Too much risks involved - to easy to counter. Not enough rewards.

  1. Not enough generated pressure via her ult or her slows.
  2. Her damage can be halved by zoning her from attacking.
  3. Using ult defensively doesn't not guarantee your escape. Not a reliable stun.
  4. Active utility CDs long.
  5. 1 or 2 damage abilities - depends on the situation. Only 1 leveling path - Volley.
  6. 2+ item reliant.
  7. Too slow, no escapes - rise of the Swifties and Runic Echos % MS speed. Assassins, fighters, face tanks.

For someone who has already 65k mastery exp with Ashe (played her before the rework and post rework - no complains there), i have to wonder how did this happen. Her damage profile is pretty straightforward and math behind it isn't complicated either. With that being said, i can't believe that she is still in this state and i haven't heard anything about her for a while, nor seen her being played. So something must be wrong.

Thoughts, experiences?

24 Comments

Dominick Destine2/1/2016, 10:35:36 PM6 votes

Got hard nerfed into pre-season, turned into complete garbage.

Quepha2/1/2016, 10:27:17 PM3 votes

Her slow strength should be increased and the 'crit slow' mechanic should be removed. unsteady slowing is not useful for kiting when you absolutely need to keep the opponent at bay. In that case the crit slow is the only valuable one and a single non-crit means you just need to turn tail and keep running.

MAYBE if slows still stacked then her weak slows would be useful for enhancing slows from allies, but Ashe received no compensation buffs for that blanket slow nerf that causes all her slows to be invalidated by slows from anyone else on her team.

If she needs a damage nerf to make up for having stronger slows, that would be GREAT. Ashe should be picked for her utility because she's Ashe, if you want more damage you should pick a different adc.

(Ashe was better before her rework)

Brahmsauce2/1/2016, 10:34:49 PM2 votes

Her slows aren't as impactful anymore I feel. Everyone's getting Swifies, and the buff to stormraiders... Ashe isn't a good pick anymore. It's all Lucian/Ez/Corki/MF/Kalista(organized play)

Rebonack2/2/2016, 4:55:44 AM1 votes

Ashe's big things are supposed to be strong, consistent damage, persistent soft CC, and her ability to Initiate fights for her team.

If Riot wants to buff her, I would say go out of left field and make her CC ignore tenacity and slow resist.

JQKAndrei2/2/2016, 6:26:38 AM1 votes

Well, on the pro side, she can duel many adcs with her Q even if she's behind.

I still play her with 60%-ish winrate. But some adcs are really a pain to deal with, like corki or ezreal.

Xenomancers2/2/2016, 1:11:01 PM1 votes

Ashe is very strong IMO. Whenever ezreal is strong though - it really hurts ashe because he is her hard counter. In terms of hyper damage she is one of the tops though and her R is probably the best ult out of all the adcs because of it's utility. The vision she brings is incredible too - she allows you to fight in situations you would have to give up objectives because of her bird scout. Basically she is great in an organized comp that knows what advantages she brings. Also dat volley - I think you all know how hard it is to dive when she is spamming that thing.

BastionKross2/2/2016, 9:53:25 PM1 votes

Riot places a lot of her power budget into her perma-slows. Years ago, if a champion had that, they were the royalty of kiting. A lot of champions were just outright shut down by that stuff. It was powerful.

Nowadays, perma-slow isn't all that big of a deal. Swifties being meta aside, mobility has become so commonplace that slows really don't mean as much as they used to. Oh, you slowed that Zed; turns out he doesn't really care all that much. Trying to kite that Darius? He's got swifties and a dead mans plate that says he's coming for that booty anyway.

What really helps shut down people gunning for that Ashe is her ult, with that stun attached. However, unlike you'd expect from an arrow, it gains more power the longer it's flying straight though the air. So if you want maximum stun, you go for long range hits. If you're forced to use it to kite with, you lose out on a lot of cc time. If anything, it should be the opposite: you get stunned longer if you're closer and less if the arrow has to travel a while. Or you could just make the stun one set amount no matter how long the arrow travels, either one would be a good change for her.

Dochasach2/1/2016, 9:53:27 PM1 votes

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Athenes Lulu2/2/2016, 10:03:19 PM1 votes

Underrated, and now needs more brain to play instead of blindly mashing buttons.

You know the thing about hypercarries? Their early game may be shit, but late game big monster. She's just one of those "exaggerated" ones.

Weak? Not exactly, but needs a little fine tuning.

MunchCrunchLunch2/2/2016, 12:01:58 AM1 votes

ashe is really weak right now. shes not the weakest adc. that title goes to sivir right now. but shes weak.

Lavaniel2/2/2016, 2:05:31 AM1 votes

Let me offer you my sense into Ashe.

She was my first main, I began playing her at the end of season 3, and I have mained her from Season 4 until now. Personally, she's changed a lot. I used to build her with 90% crit, and she would DEVASTATE anyone. There was no escape as long as you could get that build off in a decent amount of time.

Now, with her new kit, she has better abilities to duel in the earlier game. She isn't complete shit until you get four items, but don't get me wrong, she isn't the best of ADCs. Why I would pick Ashe? Well, I love her character, I'm currently building Heartseeker Ashe as a cosplay, and she's the reason I stay in League. I'll give you some tips

  • You have to understand her strengths. Ashe is meant to be a utility, long-term fight ADC who uses her slows to manipulate targets into positions that you can kite. What that means is, you offer more slows than you do damage, and your ability to control movement wins you the game. Ashe isn't good when she's running away, but if you can manipulate an enemy to running away from you, then you get off much more damage.
  • STOP, I mean STOP, using everyone's usual builds. item 3031 item 3094 item 3046 are my go-to items for this patch. Every time the meta shifts, Ashe's build shifts, because she is never a hyper carry, she must change to fit the needs of her team. This build understands Ashe's strengths because it caters to the fact that she needs AS in order to get her stacks off.
  • Understand that everything is out to kill you So WAIT until that Zed ult went off on the mid laner. I mean, really, Ashe does better when she's not dead, amirite? She's utility, not I WILL KILL EVERYTHING

With over 250 games of Ashe in ranked, and well over 200 of her in normals, SHE'S MY CHAMPION.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/6MIOZdtw-a-way-to-give-ashe-more-appeal-in-the-meta

I have several older posts that show just how much I care about Ashe. If you need anymore help, just ask. She's really not that bad. As I tell everyone, she's easy to pick up, HARD TO MASTER