Glass cannon sustained damage melees(What Riot calls Skirmishers) need a dedicated Keystone.

HappyHazard07·12/9/2017, 7:26:10 PM·25 votes·1,403 views

For perspective, I main Fiora and am not really good at the game.

So with the new grasp changes coming out I feel Riot is making an oversight. The Fiora mains Subreddit has basically confirmed that if the Grasp changes go through combined with the item changes Tanky Fiora with Titanic Hydra + Black cleaver start will make a comeback. During Pre-season it started out rough, Fiora however got better, not with any of the combat runes, but with KLEPTOMANCY, due to the nature of how pokey she is in lane with her Q counting as an auto-attack. This is not a Fiora that anyone is really excited for or wants to play. The whole play style feels cheesy and sorta flaccid. With this keystone we have actual combat power as an option again. All the current combat runes just pale in comparison to what Fervor was for Fiora.

Out of the skirmishers, Fiora is doing the best, and will likely do the best with the new bruiser changes. Yasuo, Trynd(although I hate him), and Yi all took a hit. I feel like with this class Riot's making a mistake in putting them under the same banner as bruisers cause their kits are not good for the game when they build tanky. We need a Rune that actually supports the play style of a squishy melee that can melt people. PtA doesn't work due to skirmishers as a class not being real team fighters and not benefitting off of the selfless aspect of the Rune. Lethal Tempo doesn't work as excessive attack speed isn't the best on melees, due to the nature of the melee vs ranged matchup. These are champions that shouldn't be compelled off the bat to go bruiser builds, like the grasp Rune is egging them to do. It would be better if skirmishers got a Rune that actually fit them.

There are 4 champions In this game that fit the core tenants of being a skirmisher. Fiora, Master YI, Yasuo, and Tryndamere. Everything else is either too reliant on burst(i.e. Riven) or too reliant on tank stats(Kled, Jax) Please don't forget about them. Also please add more with actually fun kits. Like seriously they have so much potential as a class to be alternative to adc's and it seems like you wish you never released them,

36 Comments

Radiant Wukong12/9/2017, 7:57:01 PM6 votes

Skirmishers with the only exception of Fiora are carries. Carries by definition deal the majority of their damage through AAs. So damage/as are their primary stats.

Before Fiora got reworked and had true damage thrown into her kit, she was really no different than Jax or Xin with nightmare that was Blade Waltz. Now she's more of a bruiser because she's doesn't actually rely on AS or a real top on AD to deal damage thanks to her new passive.

ChaddyFantome12/9/2017, 8:40:50 PM5 votes

PtA is perfectly fine. Ot also being helpful for teammates doesnt magically make it any less good for dueling.

Chembaron Yamada12/9/2017, 7:30:52 PM5 votes

Camille She has the same problem, no keystone really synergizes with her kit. Hell, the most success she has right now is with Comet in the sorcery tree.... Which gets nerfed soon....

They said that they probably want to introduce more runes in the future, goal being 4 runes per row to chose from. Hopefully they will tackle that problem then.

Verl0h12/9/2017, 7:32:22 PM4 votes

Press The Attack and Lethal Tempo are amazing. Just troll and use Predator Yi with Trinity Force.

Troll for Trump12/10/2017, 8:29:16 AM3 votes

Most of them do fine with PTA/Lethal Tempo: Jax : PTA "abuser" (not really, but he has good synergy) Fiora : Not sure, she's doing poorly due to the grevious wounds and tank-orientated meta Yasuo : great with PTA Tryndamere : rework this outdated man MasterYi : Yi is never strong unless he's abusing something. Prob needs an update as well

ªTeemo12/10/2017, 11:57:11 AM2 votes

Isn't fiora good with PTA? You have auto resets and unless you somehow kill the target in 3 attacks then you get a pretty good damage boost for the rest of the fight

Onandaga12/10/2017, 12:53:22 PM2 votes

I definitely agree Skirmishers are in bad spot, and I think a lot of that has to do with community bias towards Riot. Just look at how many upvotes those "Don't buff Yasuo" threads are getting, despite his abysmal winrate. Trynda, Fiora, Yi, Riven all get their fair share of hate as well and as such are kept at rock bottom winrates. Meanwhile champs like Rammus get away with disgustingly high winrates just because they don't attract as much hate and attention.

Mimr12/10/2017, 1:08:37 PM1 votes

I think Fiora and Yasuo can do quite fine with Electrocute given some tuning. Especially Fiora can proc it very easily (QEE). Tryndamere and Yi can use PtA/ Lethal Tempo. While I also miss Fervor for some of my picks (Shyvana, Vi and Kled) I'm not sure if it's a bad thing that it's gone. Thing is, many skirmishers (and other melee ADs) could stack it up way too fast, and since they already walk a very thin line between being too weak or too strong, giving them an extremely snowbally keystone like Fervor only magnifies that problem. I'd rather add some base power to their kits than give them Fervor back, that way hopefully they're a bit less snowbally and more counterable.

Kyunsei12/10/2017, 1:34:38 PM1 votes

I can confirm Tryndamere suffer from rune changes.

Sire Hippington12/10/2017, 10:09:48 PM1 votes

It's the old song of riot not aknowledgeing that melee AAs and ranged AAS are fundamentally different and thus have different needs. The main reason why old fervor worked for those kind of champs was because it stackes twice as fast on melees. Exept for grasp, non of the new runes are properly balanced for melees, they all are the same for rangeds and melees, which means if balanced around rangeds, they suck for nearly all melees. If press the attack would reduce damage you take from all sources but the marked opponent, it would be quite more appealing for melees. If energized attacks would charge faster on melees or if fleet fooswork had a longer ms duration for melees, it might be intteresting for some more melees. If Lethaltempo gave some extra ms for it's duration, or extra tenacity/slow resist, on melees so they actually can use the extra AS If base stats weren't tied to runes it would also help alot, many melees could us either grasp or some precisiion masteries, but prefer ad for the laneingphase over AS or HP

Wert the Wacky12/11/2017, 12:08:16 AM1 votes

Fiddlesticks No keystone, you say?

LordGeovanni12/11/2017, 8:36:32 AM1 votes

Skimishers are not supposed to be glass cannon but they arent supposed to be as tanky as tanks either

FlameHalbrdOkido12/9/2017, 10:31:35 PM1 votes

"Like seriously they have so much potential as a class to be alternative to adc's and it seems like you wish you never released them,"

instead of ADC u should say marksmen for the same reason that Radiant Wukong stated. Otherwise I completely agree with you. Why does it seem like they want marksmen to be mandatory botlane and they dont want any melee ADC's to prosper at all. Why can't melee carries be allowed to be as gud as marksmen?

RainXBlade12/9/2017, 10:33:11 PM1 votes

##BringBackFervorOfBattle

Gives No Lux12/9/2017, 10:46:09 PM1 votes

They should call that keystone Rework.

bubbi12/10/2017, 6:57:50 AM1 votes

Irelia Irelia Irelia Irelia Irelia Irelia Irelia Irelia

Blue Moon Wolf12/10/2017, 11:03:41 AM1 votes

Honestly Skirmishers suffer from the fact that they are more or less Melee marksmen. They are both damage dealers and from how I understand it they are both a dps class (With both classes having outliers here and there). Marksmen can rely on hiding behind their allies and deal their damage from a distance. Skirmishers on the other hand are forced to get close, where they are more likely to get CC'd and take more damage.

I don't think the issue with them is a Rune issue, but an issue with the class itself. Skirmishers have to find a balance between being able to quickly eliminate the enemy team before they get blown up and not completely out classing everyone else. A lot of Skirmishers have issues keeping that balance and are by far the popular class to throw shade on (Riven , Fiora, Ekko, Yasuo, MasterYi to name a few) cause they keep switching between too strong or too weak.

If this is ever going to change, Skirmishers need a real niche to fill in a teamfight. Could be possible that with some tweaking, Skirmishers, in my opinion, could potentially fill the melee ADC niche bot lane, allowing Skirmishers to replaces marksmen in some circumstances, but it would require quite an overhaul to make it work.

Vesemir12/10/2017, 1:05:33 PM1 votes

Resolve Tree sucks way too hard to get the Undying imo. I rather get PtA or Footwork. Get life steal bloodline and go domination tree for more sustain. Not to mention you get 18% atk speed adapt from Precision. Resolve gives 150hp wtf riot.... We need Fervor back in the game...