Dodgers in ARAM

Despìca Bìll·5/9/2018, 7:27:04 AM·12 votes·4,839 views

So, you queue for ARAM, get into select, get a champ you want, set your runes and spells, and someone dodges. Back to queue. Back to select. Get a champ you want, set your stuff, someone wants your champ, you won't trade them...they dodge. Back to queue. Back to select. You've got someone you hate. You reroll, get someone you like, set your stuff...someone dodges. Back to queue, back to select...


Get the picture? Great. How about we make dodgers the only ones who get penalized, and just leave everyone who stays with the champ they got the first time/the one they got after reroll? It would be ridiculously hard and time-consuming to game this system for dream teams, and it would stop people from demanding your champ, and then dodging to make sure you don't get it if you won't trade. Not sure how the rest of you feel, but I find it damn irritating to get mentally set for one champ, only to get thrown out and back into another repeatedly.


EDIT: A lot of you seem to think that I believe all dodges are malicious. There is a difference between claiming that as a possibility, and saying that's the case all the time. It's a common problem I see here on the boards: "Oh, he said something might happen, so I'm going to reply as though he said it WILL happen, and ALL the time, at that." Ladies and gents, please, look at what you're reading, and try a little harder to understand it before you reply. This is a very weak argument.

32 Comments

SkaiBlade5/9/2018, 12:30:20 PM8 votes

To be fair, I think most people do not dodge to punish you if you do not trade. They rather have a champion they don't want in the first place and no rerolls. If everyone with a champion they want declines the trade, they dodge, but the incentive is still "I don't want to play <boring>" rather than "if I don't get to play <exciting>, then at least I'll make sure you won't either". The latter "vengeance dodge" is far less common than the former "aversion dodge", I'd say.


Dodging in ARAM in general is a mentality problem. As the name suggests, ARAM is about playing random champions. But those people don't want a random champion, they desire a limited pool of champions a priori and only then want random choices within that pool.

Because of that faulty attitude towards the game mode, I go as far as to impute that they don't actually want to play this game mode in the first place. And therefore, in my opinion dodgers should be blocked from the ARAM queue for a much longer period of time. Even very extreme penalties like 24 hours seem justificable, because since according to my reasoning, they don't want to play the game mode anyway, so we might as well prevent them from interfering with those who want to embrace the game mode and its implications.

It's like going to the learner driver training area and commit reckless driving. Apparently you're not interested in the services this facility is meant to provide, and even worse, your behavior is interfering with those who do want to use it in orderly fashion. As a consequence, you'll most likely be expelled from the area and won't be allowed to enter it again in the future.


The problem of dodges in ARAM can be approached from different sides, each tackling different aspects of the problem.

  1. My method tries to penalize dodging more severely to reduce its appeal. Especially the first dodge is a positive trade (like in every queue): "get penalized for 15 minutes to prevent 25 minutes of unpleasant game play". It also passively decreases the number of dodges by locking out those who still dodge for longer periods of time, reducing the number of times they can exert this behavior in a given amount of time.

The problem with that approach is that false positives, i. e. those who actually lost connection or had to quit because of a technical problem will receive a very harsh penalty for doing something that the system actually would ideally not like to penalize at all. (Note: the naive suggestion to introduce free dodges per time is a bad idea, because it suggests not that "dodging is sometimes okay", but rather that "dodging sometimes is okay".) Secondly, if we assume people who dodge in ARAM don't care about that game mode, going down that road means we'd also have to assume they don't want to play it as often, hence a longer block from that queue doesn't hurt them as much as we'd want it to.

  1. Your method tries to mitigate the harm dodging imposes on the other players, hence making dodging a less painful problem for those who don't do it.

The problem with this approach is that it requires not only a different champion select, but also a whole new queue mechanism, one where the information which champion you have from the previous champion select has to be taken into acccount. Right now, the queue can simply put 10 people together. Since everyone is guaranteed to have a sufficiently large champion pool, there's no possible way to combine players in a way that they cannot form a champion combination without duplicates. But now the queue must neither pair nor match two people with the identical "locked" champions, hence the algorithm gets more complex and queue times can increase. Furthermore, if dodging is less painful for everybody else, in general it becomes more accepted ("if you want to do it, go ahead, it doesn't bother me"). It is questionable if that is the message you want to get across.

A slight variation to your proposal is to store the champion for everybody including the dodger, so that dodging in general doesn't have any benefits over playing it. This has the same problem with queue complexity, but might be the most effective way to abandon the biggest incentive of dodging.

  1. And finally there's other methods that try to prevent dodging from happening in the first place by alleviating the urge to do it:

The first proposal is to allow for more rerolls, for example by allowing to stack way more than two. In theory, this can allow people who are "usually okay" with the random champion to get around dodging in the case they get 3 champions they don't want in row. The problem with that approach is that it only delays the problem for many cases. The pickier a player is, the less likely a given amount of rerolls is sufficient to give him a comfortable pick. And at some point, if the number of rerolls gets too high, the aspect of randomness begins to suffer.

The second proposal is to give people a random choice of multiple champions, and allow them to pick one of that, reducing the chance of getting stuck with an unfavorable pick you need to reroll. If you get provided with 3 champions and then can reroll them individually before chosing, you can try to reroll the least favourite and if that gamble didn't help still go with an "okay" pick. The problem with that approach is that it obviously raises the minimum champion pool requirements by the factor of the number of choices, because the individual choices must be unique for everyone.

The third proposal is to allow people to manage a list of champions they do not want to play in ARAM. The list could have different restrictions, obvious ones such as the minimum number of champions that have to remain open, but also a possible maximum length to restrict people to disable only those they really really do not want instead of allowing them to narrow down the list to the ten cherries in their roster. The problem is that this can limit the diversity in ARAM, and it takes away the aspect of "discovering a champion you're not that comfortable with". But on the other hand, many argue that often the same result will be obtained because people are dodging, just with more pain for everybody else.

And finally there are many more proposal, most of which revolve around how people pick their champions to reduce the likeliness of getting stuck with a champion you don't want. Those do of course have their own downsides.


As you see, there's a lot of different thoughts on that problem, a lot of proposed solutions, each with different problems and considerations you have to make. I agree this problem is something that should be looked upon. Alas, I afrain this isn't something that will be looked upon, as with all the problems in ARAM, since it is ARAM.

P4ppino5/9/2018, 7:32:14 AM2 votes

I dodge when I don't want to play the champ, and not because I want the other ppl to not play theirs. I wait the penalty,then I queue up again.

Duke Dryfocker5/13/2018, 5:23:28 AM2 votes

As an ARAM/Features only player, I completely agree! Oh I have Sona! Sonofabitch! Dodge! Oh, now I have Aatrox. Yayyyyy😰😩😖😠

RosaCalledShoty5/13/2018, 9:49:02 AM2 votes

Here's a novel idea. How about we just bring back the rotating game mode where we can pick our own champions in most of the modes? Crazy idea I know.

Pandemic Punch5/15/2018, 8:32:44 AM2 votes

Aram needs a 6 hour long queue dodge timer. That way it feels more like the A R in aram. :) the dodging is the only reason I don't play aram anymore and I have put roughly 2.2k games into that mode.

Baka Red5/11/2018, 8:41:59 AM2 votes

In case someone dodges, nobody in either of the lobbies can keep the champion for a good reason. If someone; either the dodger, or the ones who didn't dodge, or even all of them kept their champion, the queue times would skyrocket, because Riot would be unable to put all the Ziggs/Lux etc in the same match.

Additionally a dodge system in which someone could force someone else keep the champion they have could be abused. There are three possible systems:

  • System 1: System in which the player (and his premades) who dodges, keeps his (their) champion. Player gets a Superior ARAM champion like Ziggs or Lux, but everyone else in the team has champion that is most likely to suck. The player dodges and gets to keep his superior champion to the next lobby.

  • System 2: System forces everyone else than the dodger (and his premades) to keep their champion. Similar thing happens: the guy who got bad champion dodges because he doesn't want to play it to get rid of it, and the guys with good champions get to keep them. This would be like the current system, except with longer queue, potentially much longer queue times. This is most likely the best of these three bad options, and even if it is the best of these three, it is still worse than current system because of increased queue times.

  • System 3: The system that forces everyone to keep their champion if someone dodges: The ones with great champions dodge to keep theirs and force the others to keep their sucky champions, and they hope they get better champions as their teammates in the next lobby. The guys who are forced to keep their sucky champions are going to wait to get into a game a long while, because others don't want to play with that champion and someone will "always" dodge - so they will have to suffer from both the longer queue times and even more dodges than before.

The current system is lots better than any of the above systems (the system suggested by the OP is one of the three, most likely system 2). Besides, the dodger does get punished with the current system already. He gets to wait the dodge penalty before next match (and ARAM dodge penalty is three times longer than Rift/Treeline dodge penalty). People just need to start to acknowledge the fact that before they see their champion in the loading screen, they don't know the champion they are going to play in the next match; it might be the one they see in the lobby, but it very well might not. Loading screen tells the truth (usually, barring unusual circumstances like network or power issues).

Dysnomia5/9/2018, 7:40:33 AM1 votes

So dodgers are a problem but bots are just fine?

DepressedAhri5/13/2018, 5:59:01 AM1 votes

What if I dodged because I'm playing late at night so only ten of us are in the queue anyways, and I get a teammate who was being toxic last game and I didn't want to play with them again because they said they were going to int for me?

CHAIFE7/6/2019, 1:47:11 AM1 votes

So this is my question:You queue up enter game and you have one that just sits at base the remainder of the game.There needs to be at least a remake option.I understand ARAM games are usually short but c'mon.It's extremely frustrating after 6 or 7 times of people dodging and FINALLY queueing up only to have someone sit at base the entirety of the grueling game.I agree severe penalties need to be put into place.I enjoy playing ARAM.I get to learn champs I would never choose if I played SR.I understand it's not always the players fault.First dodge:30 minutes,sort out your network or pc issues,reboot and all of that.Second,take 2 hours to sort your stuff out. Contact your internet provider,troubleshoot,etc.You get the gist of what I'm saying.Network problems?No problem!Sort it out and come back when it's been resolved.Anybody who dodges more than 3 times a day should get an increasing amount of time to wait.It's happened so many times where people would want to trade and when denied threaten with trade or dodge que and you're back to square one.Why play ARAM knowing it's all random and you may not get someone you don't want to play?