Dear Riot: From an Udyr Main

FFiresoul·7/18/2017, 4:04:53 AM·7 votes·1,305 views

With the recent PBE experimentation for Udyr, I'd like to give some insight into Udyr...his state, and what the design team should consider about where to take him.

There are two questions to ask here. 1. What fantasy does Udyr appeal to? 2. What is holding Udyr back from viability?

I will address each question separately.

  1. What fantasy does Udyr appeal to?

This one's simple. Udyr's fantasy is that of a mobile juggernaut. Juggernauts aren't supposed to have mobility, that's why they're juggernauts...but then there's Udyr. This is what makes him unique; this is what Udyr players love about him. His W makes him tanky, his Q and R give him tons of damage...and then his E also makes him mobile. This is what (should) make him scary for enemy champions. A big, powerful brute who can also rush right at you. Basically, a grizzly bear.

This is not to say that Udyr cannot and does not have weaknesses. First, being mobile is not mutually exclusive with being kitable. Udyr's biggest weakness is, despite his mobility, he is easily kited by champions with equal or better mobility (dashes, etc.) and, particularrly, crowd control. Trying to teamfight for example vs. Lux Morgana Sejuani Ashe and Chogath, for Udyr is a nightmare, and this is expected. He's a short range melee without a TRUE gap closer.

Another big weakness of Udyr is that, obviously he, has no ultimate ability. This means he never gets moments of tremendous power; rather, he relies on consistent power. This is important to remember.

  1. What is holding Udyr back from viability?

Udyr is a champion with no ultimate, whcih means that at level 6, he doesn't get the powerspike that other champions do. This is a good thing, it's part of his identity. Here's the thing though: before level 6, HE SHOULD BE VERY STRONG. Udyr's ganks and counterjungling ability pre-lvl6 should be terrifying. His power budget demands this, since again, he has no ultimate ability or powerspike at lvl6. He needs to gain an advantage before lvl6 in order to stay competitive with other strong junglers/champions.

Currently, Udyr is both too weak early on, and too weak in the late game. Of these two issues, being too weak early on is the far more detrimental problem.

The changes to his Q were misguided. In order to realy take advantage of the dps it offers right now, you need to attack many times. In real games, you don't get afforded the opportunity to attack that many times successively...ESPECIALLY since you'll need to switch stances, and so you won't get the extra clip damage. Udyr's Q should have decent base damage, ESPECIALLY early in the game (so that his early power is strong, like it used to be), and also decent AD scaling. This would give him the flexibility to build tanky (cinderhulk etc.) if he needs to be a frontliner for his team, or AD if he needs to kill carries quicker.

His Turtle Stance is also in a strange state. Traditionally, udyr was always a champ you'd want to prioritize buying resists over HP, since the resists woudl scale with his shield. However, the healing on his W now scales with his HP, so you kind of want to buy both...so now, Udyr needs HP, resists, movespeed, CDR...and his kit also really needs attack speed, and then if you want your Q to do any kind of decent dmg, you also need AD. So, basically every stat. He isnt' as mana hungry as he used to be which feels realy nice, but it's still rough if you try to go an entire game without one mana item.


So what does this mean? Well, I think the biggest things to look at are buffing the base damages on his Q and R. This would give him the early game power he needs to become and stay relevant.

7 Comments

Crett7/18/2017, 4:28:45 AM3 votes

Aatrox Udyr

welcome to the "i want every stat" club the only way to survive here is to rush item 3078 and hope for the best

in any case i'd prefer Udyr to have a strong late vs a strong early game if you ask me. the lack of a powerspike at 6 could be offset by a strong mid-late game, though in his current state that kind of power shift may leave his decision making somewhat awkward. but the mid-late game was what i always played him for (when i did play him, i'm not a main so this isn't my lane so to speak)

Meddanc7/18/2017, 5:51:26 AM2 votes

He could have an autoattack reset on his Bear Stance.

Udyr is the only juggernaut that doesn't have it.

GGODYR7/18/2017, 8:29:41 PM2 votes

actually.... in the last update which they reverted like 1 or 2 days ago , the cdr cap was 60 (without the 5% bonus from masteries ) i dont know if the cdr was 60% maximum with items or only with passive and without it would be 40 or still 60 , after that game the pbe patch with the reversions came.Look here : https://prnt.sc/fxba88 https://prnt.sc/fxbab2 .Still this doesnt solve the problem...tiger is just bad,as you said with turtle scaling with hp heal is just not too great ,i wish it still was life steal , lately ,like the last 2 months i put only 1 point in w for early clear then max e second ,turtle feels pretty pointless now... i mean you get no bonus healing from leaveling and the shield is weaker.Honestly they could tweak some stats on abilities and the champion itself but i think the real problem lies within udyr consistency lies withing his E and his consistency.Hear me out.. as you know udyr is doing pretty good when he got the upper hand , but when behind... if your team cant do something you pretty much lost the game... right now you cant farm because the timers are too high,also i think they should make his e an auto attack reset and give it in someway tenacity ,i dont think it would be balanced too have it everytime you e , there should be some special conditions meet to get the tenacity

Δύο7/20/2017, 7:16:24 AM2 votes

Cool but what about the Runic Udyr. I want to play with that build again

WalterTM7/18/2017, 4:24:14 PM2 votes

As a pretty frequent Udyr player I do not really know where to put his mini rework on PBE. Please correct me if I'm wrong on any point, as I am unfortunately not the best with numbers.

Bear in mind (pun intended), I have not tried him on PBE (before BOTH reverts, ofc), but the new passive simply seems weird. In early game the +20% cdr is awesome, but basically there are many cdr items that benefit Udyr besides Trinity (Spirit Visage, Frozen Heart and nowdays I'm rushing Righteous Glory, which is simply amazing with his bear stance), but with any of those items + trinity the bonus CDR is lost. The bonus BASE AD would be amazing especially with Triforce.... If all of his offensive stances didn't scale off from BONUS AD after the changes. In my opinion this is the biggest issue. Why bonus AD and why wasn't the normal AD scaling kept? He was very weak in team fights to begin with, so I can clearly see why his Phoenix's scaling was changed to AD, but all in all I'm pretty sure his overall damage would be still lower at that point in the game even if he built AD items, and it's pretty good that he recieved +10 base movement speed, but his passive is no longer giving him 15 movement speed (fully stacked) which makes him a bit more vulnerable to kiting. I didn't even mention that his tiger stance was -let's face it- gutted.

I think the rework would be amazing, if his passive cdr was changed to maybe movement speed (or I don't know, maybe let his cdr go over the cap? Sounds too op though), the bonus AD scaling to total AD, and the tiger dot-insta-apply was kept, tweaking only the numbers.

Big Lincoln7/18/2017, 4:49:11 AM1 votes

he actually feels pretty good early. Or, felt, on the PBE; the climbing base damage and CDR increase means that you have really strong fighting power once you get stacked up.

i think the PBE changes were a good start, particularly I'm really fond of the stacking passive in theory. I loooove me some ramp-up champions who get dangerous to fight in long trades, but they didn't push it far enough; you're really only getting threatening on Phoenix forms because Tiger's DOT was neutered hard, but the AS steroid it gives made Phoenix EXTREMELY strong. I hope they're going to find a more satisfying route to take Tiger form because I honestly prefer it when I play Udyr.

I want them to give his turtle and bear forms synergy with his passive, too. Something like giving Turtle an additional missing HP modifier and then Bear Form gets slow resistance so he becomes progressively harder to kite without hard CC

khorney7/18/2017, 4:07:21 AM1 votes

what are they exactly doing to him? having his w scale off of hp would be great in my opinion