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(X-Post GD) The impact of Solo Queue, and the case against it.

Kenethare·3/23/2016, 11:13:01 PM·5 votes·832 views
The impact of Solo Queue, and the case against it.

I am here to discuss the reasons against adding a solo-only queue to league's ranked system. If that fact by itself will prevent you from engaging in the discussion please respectfully move on. For everyone else, thank you very much for your time and participation.

We do not currently have Solo Queue and by Riot’s own statement a number of goals of Dynamic Queue have been met already and the situation is only improving. Adding Solo Queue to this rapidly stabilizing system should require a significant tangible benefit. Love the queue times now? Just wait until there are two queues.

Riot Socrates put out a post today detailing the current queue system's statistical advantage over the previous system on a number of key components. While Dynamic Queue's benefits cannot all be attributed to its lack of solo play requirement, solutions to its problems also cannot be addressed with a solo play component. At a minimum, the addition of Solo Queue should require strong reasoning for why it would neutrally or positively affect each of the elements in Riot's recent post on Dynamic Queue metrics. There are no strong arguments for how an additional ranked queue will have a neutral or positive impact on the existing queue system. The burden for change is on Solo Queue to justify its existence.

Beyond the statistical negative impact of splitting the player base across queues we should consider the cultural and social impact of adding Solo Queue. We know from example that top level play in ranked congregates towards whichever server, or queue, has the perception of being the most serious and competitive arena available. We have seen it with the migration of pro level players in Europe to EUWest and from the Chinese pro community on Ionia. This means if we split the ranked queue system, the most serious members of the community will likely pick a “true queue” and begin to migrate.
Unlike server selection, this choice has no considerations for ping or other factors. Therefore the only factors considered for a player's queue selection are social factors. Solo Queue would split the ranked community in half, pitting them against each other. This has profound and wide reaching cultural effects on the entire league community. If Solo Queue exists it creates a persistent cultural pressure to NOT play ranked with your friends. The argument over which queue is better would very much resemble the most toxic elements of a console war. This consideration alone, the idea that league players would be culturally discouraged from playing the game with their friends is enough, by itself, to not support solo queue.

Riot, there are a number of sources detailing your belief that it is not your role as designers to make culturally guiding decisions. The community decides what is acceptable and valuable to us and, on principle, I agree with your distance. However, in this specific case I do not believe it is possible to avoid a culturally defining moment. Releasing Solo Queue now sends a loud message: Solo Queue has enough advantages for the community at large to be worth its negative effects on queue times, matchmaking, community cohesion, and culture. Staying the course with Dynamic Queue reinforces the idea that league is a game with teamwork and can be played with friends. There is not a neutral option here. Perhaps if Solo Queue was released as part of the change to Dynamic Queue in the first place this situation could have been avoided, but releasing Solo Queue now is a statement of its significant tangible benefit over Dynamic Queue as it exists today.

So what would Solo Queue even address?

“I don't want to play with big premades."

Players queueing solo get teamed up with 4 man premades 3% of the time.

“People can just get boosted to a league they didn't earn by their friends!” / “People won't respect my rank because they can just say I was boosted by my friends.” “My rank won't matter.” → Boosting was a minor blip in the data with the old system and will remain that way going into the future. The only people who dismiss the rank accomplishments of others are those who believe boosting to be a much more prevalent issue than it is or those who are not secure in their own ranked success. What happened to “play to improve and your rank will follow”? You earn the rank you have and should not let other people's insecurity take that away from you.

“I don't want to play against premade players.” → Premades are a common scapegoat and blame aimed at them is a lightning rod for confirmation bias.

Teams made of solos and duos are matched against a premade 4 or premade 5 only 0.21% of the time.

The whole gamut of competitive integrity arguments boils down to “my win rate will drop” and to that I have a couple of points. First, you have only ever controlled your own play. Playing with/against premades is no different than with or against trolls/afkers/feeders/etc and it has just as much control over your ability to climb. The statistical basis for the 4/9 vs 5/9 argument is just as valid here. Additionally even if that were not the case I would make the argument that being able to play with and against coordinated players should be a core skill in league anyway. One day I hope to see a post on r/summonerschool about climbing that has “learn to communicate with your team” as a common response.

The ranked player base is the molten core of the league community. The game’s most serious and dedicated fans are found here in this heart and our culture flows outwardly from them. This is a pivotal moment that cannot help but alter the culture of League of Legends forever. One way or another this iron core of diehard fans is going to gain a magnetic charge that will ripple outwards across the entire community. To Riot and the community at large; there is no neutral choice here and I implore you to make a purposeful positive decision in favor of queue times, teamwork and playing with our friends.

P.S. - Pros/Streamers may be a major medium for how cultural values are spread throughout the league community but that does not mean their interests or opinions are more important, or that they are aligned with what is best for the game and its community as a whole. Think through the impact this moment will have on YOU, and not on your favorite streamer. Almost all of them are back at their rank from last season by now; plenty of them did it solo too.

'#NOQUEUEWARS'

5 Comments

Knight Devout3/23/2016, 11:33:21 PM2 votes

I'll repost what I said there, then:

Major point: there is a misconception that ranks earned through dynamic queue won't be worth as solo q ranks based on the assumption that other premades would "carry you". However, to admit such a possibility is to admit a fatal flaw in the matchmaking systems that would make all queue lose their value.

Players contribute to their team, and if we have to assume that each player can contribute to victory, they also contribute to defeat: this means that even in premades, each player has to carry its weight if they want to win a match, thus climbing in ranks. If player A is good enough to climb and player B is not, the chances are the enemy team will have a similar situation since we can only assume mmr and matchmaking to work properly. This ensure the playing field stays even. If the less skilled player was to quit the premade group, the solo players (or the remaining players in the premade group) would also have to face stronger players in the enemy team.

It all comes down to the accuracy of the matchmaking system. If you don't trust the mmr to be accurate, then there is no point in playing Ranked.

Tryhard Mittens3/24/2016, 11:13:58 PM2 votes

Let's say Player A has a 1200 mmr and Player B has a 1600 mmr. They play together a lot, and eventually they both move towards 1400 mmr. Player C only solo queues. Player C has a 1300 mmr. Player C is better than Player A, but lower on the ladder. Player B took a hit to mmr to play with a friend, but Player C is taking the hit because...reasons?

So this ladder of 3 should be:

  1. Player B - 1600 mmr
  2. Player C - 1300 mmr
  3. Player A - 1200 mmr

This ladder is instead:

  1. Player B - 1400 mmr
  2. Player A - 1400 mmr
  3. Player C - 1300 mmr

If you add a 1500 mmr solo queue player to the mix, you can point out that while one guy took a hit in rank, the other improved off the situation. However, neither person is where they should be on the ladder, and the ladder is effectively undermined.

I like dynamic queue for the most part, and I don't know if I even care if there is a solo queue, but there is a pretty obvious flaw in having a solo ranking system that can also be based on group dynamics. You can argue whatever point you like, but a ladder is supposed to tell you how good you OR your team is vs the respective peer groups, and the current ladder doesn't accurately do that. A pure solo queue would finally do that (no duo).

GamblerOfLives3/24/2016, 11:28:08 PM2 votes

It's not adding solo que. It's bringing it back. One thing i hate about this , is the new que. I despise it and find it totally stupid.I can understand the reasoning, but i still hate it. I don;t like the ideea of being forced to main another role. I have my niche picks for other roles, not enough thow for maining another role. I am jungle main, not support or anything else main.

Regarding dynamic que and solo que. This dinamyc que doesn;t precisely show the skill, comparing player vs player. Let's say there are 2 diamond players-same elo,same LP. 1st guy played solo vs other solo players 2ed guy played only with his premades vs other premades.

I played ranked team and it's a totally different game.

Even if we are the same elo. There is a difference. Bcs we played different games and we have the same ladder. It's not fair for either of us.

I agree if solo que comes out, which i highly doubt it will come out this year (maybe the next season) it will be the death of dynamic que.

I would like to state that there was no need in adding dynamic que. We already had solo-duo and 5 vs 5 team ranked. This was implemented for 3 and 4 man . Was it really worth it going all this trouble for this? When you had the most played game mode and you decide to kill it:))..

Too long to read: different games=different ladders. simple as that