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Will this program be "legal" in Riots eyes?

TheYasuoMain··14 votes·1,896 views

Update 3/24/16

I think I am going to just release it. If it really becomes an issue then I will stop the program, so far a Riot employee through support has said that to him the program is legal. If it isn't and a rioter would like to explain below, please do. Else wise, expect a release post in the next 2-3 days. GL HF!

So I have started working on a program that can track cooldowns. Now before you start bashing your keyboard to immediately type ILLEGAL in the below area, hear me out. The program works and will only work if the user inputs the cooldown. So it **doesn't (and can't) detect **when someone has flashed or used ignite. You have to tell it. But how? I use the "/note" feature. If you go into a game right now, and type "/note whatever you want to type here" it will add a note to your "Riot Games/League Of Legends" folder. This is how my program works. YOU HAVE TO TYPE (again NOTING THIS AGAIN, YOU have to input when the person flashed, IT will not "detect" a flash). So here is an example:

Karma has just flashed in-game. I type in chat "/note karma f" Timer starts

Thats all my program does. Before you also say its still accessing game files, think about it. The "Game" file is the note file, isn't that file meant to be modified by users? Its notes.

I'd like to not continue development if this will get users and myself banned. Hope a Rioter can sort this out for me, thanks!

Before you say message riot support, I have. This is there recommendation

> You can possibly put a post about it on our boards to see if a Rioter that works in that department can verify if it's okay or not as we do not offer support for program development here.

Note, it will only work with summ spells, and again, as stated many many times below, it will only work if the user manually tells it when someone has flashed!

26 Comments

DrCyanide6 votes

I'm reposting my comment from the last discussion you made on the topic:

This might be a question better suited to the Developer forms: https://developer.riotgames.com

First impressions:

  1. This program has the potential to be inaccurate (distortion upgrade and some masteries can change Flash cooldowns). That inaccurate nature makes it feel less like an "I win because I have this program" situation.
  2. Riot has always been OK with the idea of people manually recording notes on key events and using those notes to plan ahead.
  3. The only difference between this program and one you alt-tab out to click on is how you interact with it. It could be argued that using the note command takes you out of the game less, making it more OK than a timer in a web browser.
  4. Riot intends the Notes.txt file to be read by the end user. Riot isn't trying to hide that content from you.

If you cling to fragments of statements about third party programs you get a very distorted view of what is and is not allowed. I believe considering Riot's policies on third party programs as a whole leads to the conclusion this program would be acceptable.

Sona Ping3 votes

Doesn't matter; automation isn't the issue. They have said specifically said, in so many words, that programs that change the in-game experience, what is shown in game, for an advantage is not allowed and that "any program that provides information that is intentionally hidden from the player, e.g. cooldowns, is forbidden".

Its notes.

It's still a file! That's terrible reasoning.

DrCyanide2 votes

It's not providing info hidden to the player. You type "Karma f" in chat now, with timestamps on, press tab and hover over Karma's flash and you can calculate exactly when it will come off cooldown.

My understanding is that this would be a version of that that ignores exactly when the flash is back up and just uses the longest cooldown.

Sona Ping4 votes

Yeah, no duh.

Can you press tab and see Janna's ult cooldown?

DrCyanide2 votes

Tracking Summoner Spells has been the only example given.

It's up to the OP if they want to try and track ultimates, but the same process would apply: there's a base cooldown for Janna's ultimate, and it will never take longer than that to come back up. Notifying the player when that longest possible cooldown is finished is very possible, and would be within the rules.

Sona Ping2 votes

You dodged the question, so I'll answer. The answer is: No. You cannot press a button and see the cooldown; it is information that is deliberately hidden from the player.

The point remains it been explicitly stated that such programs for showing hidden information, with cooldowns **specifically ** mentioned, are forbidden. I am stating this fact.

DrCyanide3 votes

And I am stating the fact that what the OP described (not what you imagine might be the next step) is not hidden.

Sona Ping2 votes

And so you make me repeat myself:

Can you press a button, like tab, and see the remaining cooldown of Janna's ultimate?

or Flash? or any other enemy cooldown?

DrCyanide1 votes

You wouldn't see the exact remaining cooldown, you'd see a rough guess of the remaining cooldown.

I've got a Production API Key for the Riot API. I won't pretend to have all the answers, but I at least have written code that interacts with their API. Are you a programmer who has tried to interact directly with the game or has used the API or are you just a passerby who's stating what they remember of the 3rd party software posts, because that will change how this can be talked about.

OP, you'll want to take note of this part

The best way to settle this is to have Riot approve the application. The way to get Riot to approve the application is to get a Production API Key. To get the Production API Key, you need a prototype that uses the Development API Key (and actually uses it to get information). The best way for this type of program to use the Development API Key is if it queries the API to get the cooldown timers for Summoner Spells (and possibly Ultimates). The program would have to keep the API key secure and prevent it from exceeding the rate limit of queries, so it would require some sort of update server to actually issue the query.

Now, that last step adds a lot of extra complexity to the program, complexity that's probably not wanted. You could use that step to just pass what's needed to get your Production API Key (which basically means the program is OK, and at worse means that it won't get players banned for using it), and from there make a distributed version of your program that relies on hard-coded values. Up to you with how you want to handle this.

Sona Ping1 votes

It's not rough at all; it's timed. You start it and it automatically counts the timer down.

Where is discrepancy on this?! The only thing riot has said is "programs that time cooldowns are illegal" Everything else is exceptions you made up. What is so hard for you to understand about this?

DrCyanide1 votes

It's not rough at all; it's timed. You start it and it automatically counts the timer down.

Here's the post discussing the policy: http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=4491087 http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/riot-games/announcements/our-stance-3rd-party-applications

You manually start the timer with this program. An automatic timer was one of the problems with Curse Voice back in the day.

Where is discrepancy on this?!

Any CDR item, Distortion Boots, Runes, Masteries. All of these things are things that the program would not taking into account.

There is absolutely nothing stating that reading game files is a problem. The closest you get is debating what the word "interfere directly with the in-game player experience" means. Custom Skins "interfere directly", but multiple Rioters have said that those are OK so long as the program doesn't also dabble in things it shouldn't.

What the OP's program would do could be done identically with a website or a mobile app. The ONLY difference is how you click "start timer".

I'm assuming by you ignoring my appeal to you as a programmer that you're not a programmer. After having been over this several times with you, I have to conclude that you lack the technical knowledge to be able to assess if this program would be allowed or not.

Sona Ping1 votes

That's the same excuses that you have made up that Riot has never said.

Find me a quote from Riot where they say that the problem with all the scripts and programs that they have been were that they were "just little too accurate" and not that they were doing things to blatantly cheat, just that they were a bit too good at it.

Because after having been over this several times with you, I have to conclude that you lack the technical knowledge of English to assess what "forbidden" means.

No software should interfere directly with the in-game player experience between when you press “Play” and the end of game screen.

Lapis3 votes

I'd err on the side of caution here and say it's a no-no. Though there's nothing stopping you from writing the program and chucking it on your phone and just having it next to you.

Asyde1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Tazzy Bot,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PRJBoIRR,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-03-24T13:28:02.308+0000)

I'd err on the side of caution here and say it's a no-no. Though there's nothing stopping you from writing the program and chucking it on your phone and just having it next to you.

^ This, The problem probably lies in the fact that it's an in-game mod/feature. If you leave it as an external resource, say a website or phone app, then they would have no control over it and /or way to regulate it.

Narasimha3 votes

I'm going to err on the side of the caution and say it's illegal. Riot's general policy is that if it messes with the in-game experience in a way that is not offered to all players, then it's a no go. Even if it's 'just' a cooldown timer, it's something other players don't have, and it does impact the way you play the game.

Astôlfo3 votes

Wait I just realized you meant seeing ult cooldowns and stuff for enemy players. Yeah, absolutely not. Entirely illegal.

The Sword Saint2 votes

{quoted}

Wait I just realized you meant seeing ult cooldowns and stuff for enemy players. Yeah, absolutely not. Entirely illegal.

That's not what he said. As it is right now, you can do the same thing by typing to your own chat and spamming your teamates 'enemy flash down up at 8 minutes'. What his program does is he types ''/note to self enemy flash down up at 8 minutes'' and then at 8 minutes it says somewhere one screen 'hey you told me to remind you at 8 minutes that the enemy flash is up by now''.

Astôlfo2 votes

CurseVoice was illegal in the past because it showed when jungle camps would respawn. Not sure how this would pass over.

DrCyanide1 votes

Curse Voice automatically started timers that were never wrong.

This would be a player manually starting a timer that could be changed by item purchases or masteries.

Iqqi1 votes

I do not have an answer for you, and the unfortunate truth is Riot won't answer this either. Riot's stance about any sort of additional software is that they intentionally refrain from officially announcing a position so they can do whatever they want without appearing to act against what they have said in the past. Sure you will see an occassional Red post on a subject. That should never be taken as an official stance by Riot. If it isn't publically listed on their FAQ page, just know Riot can change their official stance at any time.

Some things Riot lets go others, not so much. Like skin programs that alter your skin. No official word, but it is generally believed to be ok.

In your circumstance, it is not as clear. On the one hand, you are creating a program that works in conjunction with League, that while still has to be manually initiated, could be considered as a system which improves your performance.

Let me explain. In League, we generally know the length of Cds for summoners and abilities, I say generally because of CDR and masteries which can adjust the time. We also have time stamps in game, and like some players do, we can type out when an ability was used so that we can record that time. However we still have to be mentally aware of that CD and remember to scroll up to check the CD timer.

Your program takes the 2nd (arguably most important part) out of the equation. It is one thing to record when something was used, it is another thing to be able to easily track the CD.

My suggestion to you would be instead of creating a program that works on your PC and through league, that instead you look for a timer app instead. Prior to Riot introducing timers for objective re spawns like baron, dragon, and jungle buffs. There were plenty of apps out there which allowed you to simply click on an icon and you would start an accurate timer for that objective. It could be extremely simple, does what you need it to do, and since it does not operate within League, you have 0% risk of Riot taking a negative position.

Tomate Cru1 votes

{quoted}

You can possibly put a post about it on our boards to see if a Rioter that works in that department can verify if it's okay or not as we do not offer support for program development here.

Don't you guys talk to each other?

Tomate Cru1 votes

Whether it is legal or not, I don't know. I guess it is not, for Riot...

But it is a great idea and I don't think they can really track it if you are just using the file in "read only" mode... Though, they could detect it by the fact that you will be doing "notes" a lot.

You could try a different approach. Something like Siri, Cortana, or Google Now, something on your phone that would listen to specific words or commands to start timers ;)

Stray Kat1 votes

If you wanted a simple way to make it 100% legal, add a hotkey to your program to make it pop up it's own prompt over top of league, type Lulu F in THAT prompt instead.

Then you're in no way using game files, you're simply keeping track of people's approx cooldowns on your own. It's literally no different than a stopwatch.

TheYasuoMain1 votes

That's what I'm thinking of

redruM471 votes

Timer.gg does this same thing except with your mic. I'm unsure how riot views this Website.

ƒoes1 votes

I'd just like to see a program where general game statistics would be updated live, and it wouldn't necessarily help you, but it would tell you things like your skillshot accuracy, average damage output, etc..

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