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Chalice doesn't make sense anymore and doesn't work

CosmicWaters·12/24/2014, 12:04:09 PM·6 votes·1,245 views

The new chalice passive that is 2% of missing mana. It doesn't work in the game well. Chalice is the item champs with high mana consumption use, champs with middle ground amount of mana at 18 and supports. Now ill be focusing on supports mainly cause athenes still has it's passive of granting 15% on kill or assist which leaves supports(YET again) screwed over. Most support item do not cater to mana but they cater to mana gen, literally almost all of them have mana gen instead of mana(Unless you are a tank support but they dont have mana issues cause most tank items have mana).

Now crucible is my support item on most of my supports, it leaves me with next to no mana gen now. Seeing how a good deal of the game is spent between 1-18 when you have very little mana pool and low mana gen, chalice provides with next to none in terms of mana being given. If you have 500 mana and you use a spell that cost 100 1/5th of your mana is gone and you gain the great amount of 2 mana over 5 seconds. Two. This doesn't increase unless you gain mana, which I've said does not help cause most supports who use chalice dont have items that fit well that have mana in them, but ALL supports items carry mana gen.

So what's the point of this change? It doesn't affect ap carries at all. Doesn't affect tank support cause they have items that grant them 500+ mana. But mage supports get the shaft again. For the millionth time in this game the support were not thought of.

The previous chalice worked perfectly. Why? Well it's passive was increasing mana gen based on your current mana gen. So if you were extremely low on mana in the middle a potion or a few seconds will greant your mana gen and keep you supporting the team without having to run for safety cause you are oom.

Can a red please look at how this is a problem facing support mains and not anyone else. This is a terrible change that wasn't needed and I dont think was ever explained and noone cared because it only affects the supports. Can we please ahve it reverted cause it's a big nerf to support mana gen. Especially with how the mana gen works now. We get very little actual mana gen from items on top of not having mana items that actually fit well into mage supports.

15 Comments

Tapu Fini12/24/2014, 1:49:54 PM7 votes

The changes to chalice make it feel really inferior to other options. It caters specifically to champions that itemize a high amount of mana, rather than serving as a standalone source. Unless you build a tear, RoA, maybe lich bane... It's just not enough now. Building chalice plus one of those items makes your early game pretty damn weak, too. :/

Meanwhile resourceless and energy champion spam their spells like machine guns with no real tradeoffs. Pretty shitty.

Vandus12/24/2014, 4:49:07 PM2 votes

Coming from someone who got to plat these past 2 seasons playing mainly support (95% mage supports) I almost never build chalice, before or after this change. Only time I ever built it is when I needed mikael's. Or playing velkoz support when I'm ahead.

Mana management is really crucial as supports. Plus support generally yield higher KDA comparing to other roles, looking at your profile you have very high death per game, with highest KDA as support being 2.6. Based on your stats I'll presume you have more than just mana issues to work on. I'm not saying since you're silver your input is less credible, however everyone has room for improvement and there are tons of more impacting factors to playing support than this chalice change. Just a suggestion :)

Khell DarkWolf12/24/2014, 1:41:15 PM1 votes

You pretty much hit the nail on the head.

Because of the changes to champions now having the mana regen formula different, what happened was that Chalice is affected differently in mana regen.

What it was before is Chalice's passive increased mana regen based off of your Total Mana Regen and get increased depending on how low your mana pool is to zero.

Now what it is doing now is taking only the very low base champions mana regen changes which are very small and doesn't regen well anymore.

It is kinda the same concept between Total AD and Bonus AD. Only in this case for Chalice, it doesn't scale off of Total anymore but actually worse on base flat mana regen which was changed in the patch on how Champions get it.

CosmicWaters12/24/2014, 3:19:45 PM1 votes

Yeah perfect set of words. It's not a stand alone item anymore which is terrible. Even with a support item and chalice it's not enough mana gen to get through a team fight.

I know I spam my spells a lot which is why I sacrifice a support item for me to have crucible and morellos. But those with a support item my mana still get drained far in a team fight to the point where i have to pull out a bit and wait for my mana to get back up, and because chalice doesn't increase mana gen in tough situations like the original did(at 0 mana shoots up to at least one spell) I can't keep healing or buffing my team in a fight.

This was a poorly thought out change that doesn't affect most champs except the supports and it needs to be fixed.

The whole function of the chalice is to be a mana refiller in counter to a endless mana supply like arch and rod. Now that is scales solely with mana, champs with low base mana are suffering. Because they can't build mana because it's a poor choice compared to the mana gen items cause mana items are associated with pure aps and tanks, and the mana gen items have second functions that are support orientated.

It needs to be reverted honestly. It was fine where it was. It wasn't giving anyone op amounts of mana gen unless they sacrificed other items to build more mana gen.

disregardable12/24/2014, 12:16:37 PM1 votes

I generally find item 3165 to be just enough. You could just buy a item 1027 for the laning phase and then sell if if it's not. You don't need to spam your abilities all day.

Drunk Rummate12/24/2014, 3:32:50 PM1 votes

managing your mana isn't difficult. it wasnt adviseable to rush a chalice on most supports in season 4 anyways so i dont see what your issue is. frostfang and some biscuits should be enough for the laning phase. midgame just buy mobies and recall when you're oom.

FHMarshy12/24/2014, 3:32:55 PM1 votes

I like the new item 3165 :)

Embertine12/24/2014, 3:40:16 PM1 votes

If you are having a problem with your maximum mana being too low to make the chalice of any real use, then get an item that increases your maximum mana. It is a simple fix and shouldn't be a problem unless you are one of the people whom have only one set build for a champion and thus cannot adapt to the needs you are facing in match.

Diostukos12/24/2014, 3:41:12 PM1 votes

I've started building Seraphs on Sona and taking some mana regen runes. the Tear delays sightstone for 3-4 minutes but I think it's worth it since you won't really have mana problems once you build up some stacks.

CosmicWaters12/24/2014, 3:20:21 PM1 votes

Please up vote this is you agree so we can try and get a red to comment on this issue

CoolKnightST12/24/2014, 12:38:07 PM1 votes

I think whe just need more time to figure out the new runepages. I honnestly think mana runes could be kinda strong on certain supports right now. Add least the support that still want to go for item 3222.

Also since bonus mana now scales better a new road openend namely mana itemization. Whe might get some more usefull items build out item 1027. I think item 3070 what have a lot of potentional if they can let the item build into something else.