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Support Shaco

ploki122·8/11/2014, 10:14:44 PM·2 votes·855 views

Ok, so the intro may feel a bit cold to you, but I just deleted my 3 paragraphs (hundreds of words easily) wall of (con)text that served as background. I'm Ploki122 Platinum V main. My favorite champions are Poppy, Veigar and Swain. I'm someone who really likes the non-standard picks since I tend to play outside the standard meta to win my games. I'm pretty weak mechanically, so I use wits and OP picks (Poppy) instead.

Recently, I've tried Shaco support. The initial goal was simply to check the terrain and play 3-4 games to get that support icon. Right now I always take W first because of its insane power in term of map control (for buff securing and cheeses). My log of games went as follow :

  1. AP shaco - Twitch-Shaco vs Jinx-Nami. Spellthief start, Max Jack-in-the-box first. Use JitBs to zone them away from brushes, then use E to poke. Rush chalice and liandry's to aim for the AP damage. I had no Lich Bane and their WW was a monster, we lost due to stupid fights.
  2. Fighter shaco - Kennen-Shaco vs Ezreal-Heimer. My JitB would often allows us to clear the heimer turrets easily. We played stupidly and only won by a bit. Rushed chalice (mr + mana) into Triforce for deletion power. We won because of stupid fights.
  3. DPS Shaco - Lucian-Shaco vs Ezreal-Blitzcrank. My HitB made his grabs insanely hard to land and Lucian was able to usually outtrade Ezreal by staying behind minions. We got camped insanely hard and ended up losing lane. In most cases, we'd go 1-2 or 2-2 in those 2v4. We lost game because of insanely stupid fights (forcing fights 1v3 or 2v4).
  4. Irrelevant because their adc was afk for a while.
  5. Split push Shaco - Lucian-Shaco vs Thresh-Tristana. I started going coin first. It makes me lose on some gp5 (recalling is a bigger loss, but I don't always get cannons/melees with relic shield) but it helps me sustain my mana pool. I max W last (either max Q or E... or a shamble of both and be inneficient). I try rushing an early Hydra to allow for some major clone damage and possible split pushing once the lane is over. Once hydra is over, I go for Shiv for that extra damage.
  6. Irrelevant, their team was bad, Thresh trolled for a while and their top laner RQ'd.

The idea of split pushing support is basically that I can outduel their support easily with my kit, so they have to send someone valuable to stop me. At that point my team has the advantage 4v4. The downside is that if I have a terrible lane, I won't be able to split for a while, and that if their team has a reliable way to force 5v4 I have no real way of getting to the teamfight quickly.

So here are the main discussion points for everyone :

  1. Given your experience with support and/or shaco, what do you think of shaco as a support? (And would you build him more of a Triforce/Gauntlet, AD or AP).
  2. How safe do you feel laning 1v2 when the enemy cannot safely move past minions to engage (which sums up my Shaco lanes up to now)?
  3. How do you feel about a support hogging one lane's resource to himself once laning phase is done?
  4. How critical is sightstone/vision to you? Would Teemo's shroom be enough vision to feel safe in lane? (that's a comparison, since I have JitB at level 1)

For those who are more experienced with Shaco :

  1. What skill order do you usually go/would you favor in this case? I'm getting pretty confused since every single skill is really great for support shaco, and once laning is over, their ranks usually don't really matter.
  2. What item order do you usually go (and what role/position), and how would you translate that into support Shaco? I feel like all items I want are excruciatingly expensive...
  3. Split push Shaco vs Teamfighting Shaco. What do you prefer? How? When? Why? and all those things...

7 Comments

Deep Terror Nami8/12/2014, 12:34:56 AM1 votes

I tried Support Shaco before, but minions made JitB hard to utilize as a proper support technique in lane and relegated them to wards. Now that you bring it up again, maybe I would be better off using more of the laning phase assisting in counter-jungling and keeping bot clear of wards so the real jungler can gank whenever he wants and make bot laning phase a breeze? Unless we're vs. a Tristana/Leona and they pounce on my ADC the second he's alone :(

Long story short, I think a roaming support controlling the entire bottom map's vision is where he can work.

DrugsForRobots8/12/2014, 1:19:13 AM1 votes

Disclaimer: For what it's worth, I'm only Silver 3 playing with/against Silvers and Golds, with the occasional Plat in normals.

In Brief: I've been playing Shaco as a support for most of Season 4 and honestly, I feel like that's the role he should be. Yes, he can perform great ganks and counter jungle with the best of them, but I think being in bot lane gives him just as much gold in kills and assists (preferably the latter). He doesn't need farm really, he just needs to be where the action is - the gold will come to him.

About his abilities: Boxes act as wards that bite and cover your retreat, Two-Shiv lets you poke them down and chase, Q lets you not die when things go south and chase, and his ult has the split second dodge on cast, great zoning, wave clear potential, can body block for your carry, tower tanking/pushing ability, and can act like a ward if nothing else.

Playing Shaco Support: I grab JitB at LvL1 to watch for invades and leash for my jungler. In lane I'll typically have 3-4 boxes down at any give time. I use trinket to keep river/tri bush warded and keep the boxes closer to us to deter any would be engages. I'll get Deceive at LvL2 to be safe. Then I usually max Two-Shiv first for the poke.

I build AP starting with Spellthief's Edge or two Faerie Charms, getting Chalice asap and a Sightstone shortly after. Chalice will let you harass them constantly, and picking up an early Frostfang helps too for the same reasons. I'd recommending getting Fiendish Codex for the CDR and to build FQC. I'll upgrade Sightstone eventually, buy Mikaels for my carry, Lucidity Boots or Sorc Shoes, and finish with a Zhoyna's and Abyssal (or Locket it our team needs it). End game with 100 ARM/MR, over 2.3K HP, and 200+ AP.

Regarding runes, masteries, and summoner's: I take hybrid pen marks, mana regen and armor seals, magic resist and scaling AP glyphs, and move speed quints. I run 9/0/21 taking attack speed and AP in offense, and getting standard support stuff in utility, focusing on mana regen, GP10, CDR, move speed. I like the combination of Heal and Exhaust, with my carry taking Barrier and Flash. I feel like this gives my carry max survivability all game as long as I'm around, and lets Shaco save allies who would otherwise die while still escaping himself.

Now, to address some of your questions directly, in order of your asking (some overlap with the above will occur):

I think Shaco is a good support given that his kit wasn't really designed with supporting in mind. Are there better supports? Sure. Can Shaco support work well? Yes, for most of the reasons outlined above.

Not sure what you mean about laning 1v2. I will roam up to mid occasionally, but I make sure the lane and river is warded ofc.

Personally, I don't find myself splitting much with support Shaco. Though I can clear a lane pretty quick if need be, I find it much more useful to be near the team when a fight breaks out.

Sightstone is an amazing item on Shaco imo. It gives him some much needed durability and lets him have twice as many wards out as other supports. I would never skimp on wards. :p

I max E first for poke, if I can harass them down. Against a healer I'd do boxes first. I alternate between his remaining abilities - the crit on Q is good enough that it shouldn't be passed up.

Spellthief's Edge, Chalice, Sightstone, Fiendish Codex, and Boots in that order. I'd consider this his core. My move speed quints/masteries lets me forgo boots longer than most champions could afford to. I've been experimenting with picking up a Doran's Blade for the 2v2s in lane. Seems like a solid choice.

Shaco team-fighting, with my current set up has been pretty positive. You're just tanky enough and while your DPS isn't terribly high, it is fairly constant thanks to Shiv having 4.9s cooldown at max CDR. As always, catching someone out usually helps win the game. Having two defensive summoner's lets you save an ally, so they can maintain their dmg output.

If you read all of that I'd be amazed. And if only Shaco had a blind...