@Immobile Mage Mains

aWildFizzAppears·12/11/2014, 1:40:10 PM·17 votes·3,941 views

How do you do it?

I've tried to get into. I always enjoy a challenge, and didn't want to play the usual "zed/fizz/kat/akali" that is rampant currently.

I've tried to get into anivia, malz, brand, and lissandra (though her E makes her mobile). And some games i can do great, but then there are some games where I get frustrated beyond belief losing to mobile champs/assassins. I'm only d5 and a jungle main, so mid isn't my strongest suit but how do you guys do it? Say I'm playing Brand, I cleverly clear 4-5 minions, E, land a QW (skill shots), drop an R (bounces multiple times cause i cleared minions), and fizz RWQ's me and im dead instantly. I'm at the point where I am thinking about just staying in the jungle and letting mids play their mobile champs.

56 Comments

Talamare12/11/2014, 1:43:24 PM22 votes

Like anything else, timing and positioning

Yea sure Fizz and Zed might have the advantage in a 1vs1 situation, but in team fights Brand and Malzahar are way more dangerous.

As far as 1vs1 go tho, like I said timing and positioning~ You can't really go ham on assassins since they are basically designed to kill you, however you can counter fight them. Which means they tend to have predictable patterns when they are trying to go in to kill you.

Learn those patterns and use your spells accordingly.

Leti the Yeti12/11/2014, 1:57:14 PM10 votes

Immobility is compensated by something just idk use what they give

malz is immobile but he has a excellent wave clear skill that he only has to use once, leave it, go stand somewhere safe also silence.. silence OP in mid lane

Xerath has a really nice combo with his slow-stun-lazer his ult turns him into a siege catapult and has long range for safe pokes and farm

also depends onw ho you're up against you out range zed or akali or fizz and such you can stand somewhere safe if they try to zone you despite having 8x less range than you, you can tell them to fk off with a couple of abilities

also, its pretty clear that most assassins will take advantage or your cool downs, especially in mid lane where you need all your stuff for an all-in so either conserve your abilities or use it, run, wait for it to come up again like brand... just summon a pillar of fire and get the hell away back to safety

Sooko12/11/2014, 7:19:03 PM9 votes

As Veigar, I play like a total coward. I have won vs Zeds, Talons, Fizzes and Yasuos (not saying you should pick Veigar in this situation, though, it was a blind pick). I just keep my E ready, never let anyone tower dive me as soon as they get close. Fizz's E can't go through my E, I think. Talon is kind of tricky, as soon as I see him vanishing into blades, I put my E on myself, so he can't cutthroat on me so soon. Yasuo has been so spammed I kind of already know the distance of his E dash, so my E usually unavoidably lands. Then, against Zed. I hate that guy... I try to put my E both on top of his shadow and him as well, and play super safe post 6. I usually try to harass against Zed with Qs, instead of farming with them, and start with a flask, thanks to a lot of Dr. Kepper videos, because I already see that he has a way bigger advantage than me, might as well try to go for something that can actually make his life difficult, rather than get killed inevitably. Whenever he ults me, I drop a W and pray/Zhonya's, whichever I can, sometimes both. Akali is an easy match up for me. Katarina has the upper hand because interrupting her ult with an E (which relies on the enemy walking) is quite hard, but her early game is almost as bad as Veigar's, so its not that bad.

But my true hatred... Morgana. That b****. I never won lane against her as Veigar. Ever. I have won games, but she always killed me and made my life hell. People say she is balanced because her Q is easy to dodge (while I still think the hitbox is broken), but what makes her retarded is her stupid E. Virtually ungankable, can make carries impossible to lock down and it lasts for ever. ;-; Never force me to go against Morgana...

Back to your point. Immobile mages are very vulnerable to skillshots, thanks to the fact that they cannot dodge them that easily, and they are usually in very dangerous situations if they push, unlike a Zed that can usually shadow out of the danger. Most assassins nowadays have waveclear and damage, like mages do, but the immobile ones have an ability of damage/CC that those mobile scumbags lack. Its all about finding out what it is, and mastering it. In Veigar's case its his E. It might feel kind of OP, and even be OP, but in a game where mobility is insanity predominant, I don't think it is really that much of a problem.

LuckyReden12/12/2014, 3:43:21 AM6 votes

"only d5" LOL i wish i was d5

Baval12/12/2014, 9:21:41 AM4 votes

It was the wisest choice. Heimerdinger

warpenguin55512/11/2014, 4:47:49 PM4 votes

try lux and syndra, long range means they dont need mobility

aWildFizzAppears12/12/2014, 12:16:33 AM3 votes

Thanks for the responses. Encouraging me to keep trying. :)

I think my issue is that I'm a jungle main and I am just so used to going ham all the time. I need more patience apparently!

Civil Dawn12/11/2014, 2:38:28 PM3 votes

Yeah I'm getting really tired of these cancer-assasins, but I've been practicing champions that can counterplay them (Annie for example) Some other champs I'm planning on starting to play in mid are Liss, Vel'koz, and maybe even xerath

If you have any great builds for them or any tips, please tell me :D (I main support, but I want to be good in other roles too, so far I do really good mid 90% of the time) My main weakness right now is that I don't really roam enough, I just dont know what to do/when to do it

Letsgetcooking12/12/2014, 3:39:12 AM3 votes

You hate Fizz? You hate Zed?

Play Mordekaiser. Trust me, they'll hate you so much. I think Riot never gave Mordekaiser mana due to how fast he'd fill item 3070

Jokes aside, if you play Morde, you'll never die IF you play him well. LOTS OF WARDS, PING AND MAP AWARENESS. You will have to keep your eyes on your slippery enemy and make sure he doesn't sneak up bot lane, grab a double kill and then snowball.

Use wards, pings and Mordekaiser's monstrous pushing power to make your enemy mid's life a nightmare.

One thing tho, Mordekaiser isn't so great against Yasuo. You cant really poke him efficiently with your E, and Yasuo will attack whenever you have it on cooldown. Get some points on W to piss the ronin off.

Mordekaiser also has weakenesses, such as how easy it is to escape him and to kite him. But if you have an assassin on your team(jungler, for instance)use him: ult their carry and win. Mordekaiser is terrifying to fight against if you're a squishy melee assassin.

Ahri Body Pillow12/12/2014, 3:59:44 AM2 votes

Play safe, buy wards, abuse range

Don't even think about all inning.

#Zyra

SexyTaylorSwift12/11/2014, 11:41:30 PM2 votes

Fiddlesticks

The5lacker12/12/2014, 1:01:35 AM2 votes

Area control. Your priority should be sustained pressure to keep them off of you and off of your teammates. With brand especially, you can harass while wave clearing. Keep your bushes warded, watch their movements, and grab some sort of mana sustain. Athenes is still very good, Morellonomicon is amazing and cheap, and grabbing a pair of Doran's will generally keep you running for quite some time.

FastAsHeck12/12/2014, 6:48:50 PM2 votes

as someone who plays a lot of Karthus , my best advice would be to save your defensive spells and try not to fight much. usually these immobile champs are all about teamfights, while mobile enemies are stronger laners. after a lot of practice i am no longer afraid to pick karthus into anything, not even zed or yasuo. maybe katarina is an exception, but just because karth has no hard cc. if your champ is teamfight oriented, play like a total pussy and stay in your tower :) farm it up, spam the ss ping to the limit and get to the lategame!

Xonra12/11/2014, 9:08:28 PM1 votes

I think with me it is more a matter of I was so stubborn I never stopped doing it in the first place.

I was playing Morg back when it was cool to play Morg in MID when she was a 100% ban in ranked AND in pro games. Some of us are just too stubborn to give up the old immobile mages.

soulbanana812/12/2014, 12:22:50 AM1 votes

Positioning, and after laning phase, stay grouped. This is because 90% of mages are way more awesome and potent in teamfights compared to most assassins. Also, if you win laning phase, assassins can't do much but splitpush to try and get something. If this happens, pick them off with 2 members. MR/armor can really help.

Ulric Greatsword12/12/2014, 12:23:49 AM1 votes

Veigar Xerath Lissandra Swain Karthus Are my go-to mids. The key lies more in knowing what you cannot do rather than what you can. Always try to stay as far away from the action as possible, farm passively, and ward, ward, ward. Not all of the immobile mids have cc, but if you do, save it for when they go all-in. Farming and warding are priority, not kills. If you have long-rang poke, use it. Never go in unless you can flank them with the jungler. Use your wave clear to keep the minions as far from your tower as you can.

5G8Nri0B5412/12/2014, 7:34:40 PM1 votes

With someone like Malzahar, he has one thing going for him other much better AP mids don't.

No body have any idea wth to do against him since he's so rarely seen.

Kaxi12/11/2014, 8:00:03 PM1 votes

At the mid position, I usually take Veigar. I start standard with a Doran's Ring (except in special exception I'll start flask). However, the main thing is that I take Flash-Teleport. It makes laning so much easier in terms of pressure. It allows a mistake or two to be made. Positioning and timing are essential. Play like a coward and win trades with Q (since while farming is nice with a permanent AP stack...you get its level in kills). However, once that level 5 comes around, start exerting pressure. Don't be afraid to Q the enemy laner for a free kill at 6. Exhaust the enemy's options. I recently won a game against a Ryze simply because of timing and not forcing a nuke build. The enemy Ryze rushed Tear, Mercury Treads, and a Cloak. This made laning hard but not impossible. If you know you can't win trade, focus on the farm aspect. Farming is invaluable. While sacrificing a Q for harass is fine, ultimately missing that CS is not. I've won plenty of games against Zeds and Yasuos and whatnot simply due to outplaying with the stun gate. Your CC is invaluable. Utilize it on ANY champion.

I've gone on such a huge tangent.... The theory remains true for most immobile champions like Lux, Annie, ect. You just need to time your attacks and make sure you keep pace in farm. Sometimes it's good to let the enemy laner push up if you ward their gank routes to other lanes. Use that CC. Look for that 0-out opportunity, too. Don't force it, but always be mindful of it. Immobile mages usually have consistent damage.

Magma Lux Mid12/11/2014, 7:55:16 PM1 votes

It depends. You either want to zone/bully early and get an early advantage. Later, unless super ahead, you'll want to play safe and farm from range. If Fizz has to double e and q to reach you, you should win the trade with your rotation because he'll have uses a lot of damage potential.

BATTLE BUS12/12/2014, 3:43:58 AM1 votes

I personally think, that with all the new mobile champs that came out, standard mages that rely on casting should all have at least 1 ability's missile speed increased. ex. Brand's Sear or Anivia's Flash Frost.

junglerboy1612/11/2014, 4:02:36 PM1 votes

Immobile mages are usually better at early trading and poking than Assassins like Zed/Fizz/Akali/Kat. Bully them hard as anything before they get their ults and you will make them cry (Viktor can out burst most of them and has crazy strong poke and trade with E and Q).

DEN15 51212/12/2014, 6:15:09 AM1 votes

Used to main Xerath

A combination of him getting reworked and the rise of assassins made it impossible to play him

After struggling to play him and other immobile mages, i just gave up and started playing zed instead cuz if you can't beat em, join em, right?

If the matchup is favourable (aka not Akali Fizz Kassadin Katarina Leblanc Talon Zed Riven Ahri , wait thats literally 1/3 of the mid lane roster, and almost every commonly played one), I will still pull out one of my immobile mages.

Aheadatime12/12/2014, 7:21:21 AM1 votes

It's pretty simple really. As Malz, I just wave clear and avoid trouble unless my opponent slips up and I can get a quick kill. Once I hit 6, I look for an all-in (opponent champ dependent). Malz's late game damage is just stupid. He's far safer and does far more damage than the flashy mobile champs you listed. You just need to learn the champ's nuances. It might seem easy to get jumped on as someone like Malz, Brand, etc. But if you understand their kit to a high degree, it's near impossible to engage on such champs.

I can't really give you a step-by-step without making this post extremely detailed, but if you are looking for safe, sustained aoe damage that can easily dictate the tide of teamfights, then I recommend you pick one of the immobile mages and play them constantly. I'm at the point with Malz that there is no lane matchup that I dread. The matchups that I used to consider 'counters' when I was in bronze/silver are now exciting skill matchups that I can't wait to test myself in. The more you understand your champ and their nuances, the less it matters what some website says about your 'counters'.

AtheosisX12/11/2014, 6:39:27 PM1 votes

I find that it's very hard to get kills without help from the jungle when facing assassins with most mages, especially early as most mages are mid to late game oriented. Generally it's best to play it safe and wait for ganks. Later on most immobile mages are straight up better than most assassins assuming those assassins haven't been fed.

HeadHonchkrow12/12/2014, 11:25:50 AM1 votes

Do you want to blow up your enemy( Veigar ) , or slam your face on the keyboard and win?( Ryze )

MrSc0tty12/12/2014, 1:07:34 PM1 votes

Solution: play the dope ass dope Malzahar jungle, win.

Messaiga12/12/2014, 1:54:34 PM1 votes

It's all positioning, watching cooldowns, making sure you aren't oom, etc. You have to be very careful with where you are in relation to the enemy team because if you are vulnerable you will get dived by somebody more mobile. I tend to play mostly Xerath and Vel'Koz for immobile mages (when I mid) since both have an aspect that I really enjoy (I like Xerath's lore but preferred his old gameplay, still play him sometimes. Vel's whole burst feels very fluid to me and I enjoy that I can focus on Magic Penetration and do massive damage to a tank or a squishy).

For Xerath, I'd say your position matters much more than Vel (with the exception of when you use your Ultimate) so try to keep a distance away and if you notice somebody approaching make sure you land your stun or else you will die most likely. With Vel, I'd say it is a bit easier to stay safe since you can constantly slow with your Q and should you need to use your E as a knock-back rather than a setup for your combo (or both) it isn't all that hard to land. Xerath's got better siege, Vel's got better teamfight.

Immobile mages are pretty damn fun once you get the mindset behind playing one (stay the fuck away if you can, otherwise kill whoever you can then get back to safety), it's just hard in a meta dominated by mobility.

SummonerSquid12/12/2014, 2:04:51 PM1 votes

Focus on positioning and dodging skillshots to stay alive while in lane. Focus on map awareness and your CC to avoid/stop ganks.

SwainDaRokJensen12/12/2014, 3:46:47 PM1 votes

Positioning is key. I main Lux and on a champ with nice range but no mobility, staying just out of range of your opponents is the best thing you can do. Also buy wards. Being immobile means you have to be in juicy gank range to CS sometimes. so having vision down river is pretty nice to help you avoid those pesky junglers (such as yourself ;D)

BastionKross12/12/2014, 3:58:23 PM1 votes

Swain doesn't run when the enemy jungler comes to play, he just gets a double kill.

Icy Auron12/12/2014, 4:12:36 PM1 votes

Anivia is very easy once you get the hang of her. You do the same combo in almost every situation.

Ariel the Cruel12/12/2014, 5:56:09 PM1 votes

My only Mid's right now are Lissandra and Viktor .

For Viktor Most of the assassins hit a huge power spike at 6. Pre-6, he can out-harass them with just his Q most of the time (assuming you land the empowered AA). His gravity field can also be used to ward off all-ins when used well (doesn't work on fizz, sadly). He stalls out a bit against mana-less champions. Since his costs are a little high initially. Post-6, you probably have 1 or 2 augments by now, and your ult. And his burst starts getting ridiculous. Oh, and his ult cancels channels (Bye Bye Katarina ). Mid game- his burst starts approaching assassin level. His late game needs a nerf. I don't want to admit it. I REALY don't want to admit it. But he gets a lot of utility, assassin-level burst, low cooldown harass poke, and can clear an entire wave with just his E. He's a mini-assassin with AoE damage.

As for Lissandra She laughs at assassins. Cruelly. And they can't even stop her from doing it. She has the longest range (non-ult) mobility skill in the game. Which can also be used for hilariously effective jukes. (claw and walk in opposite directions - her pursuer gets it wrong no matter what). She has an instant AoE root (So much fun catching Akali or LeeSin mid-dash). Can harass and wave clear with the same skill (Q). And her ult works as either a point-and-click stun (bye-bye kat & akali), or a Zonya's (bye-bye Fiz ult, Zed ult, and ignite). Either way, the opponent gets damaged and slowed.

Then late game, she just builds AP tank and oppresses them even further.

Drunk Rummate12/12/2014, 8:23:01 PM1 votes

when i play ori i find it's all about just standing behind someone and plopping your ball on them. just always position someone between yourself and your opponent and you'll be fine. try not to expose yourself to skillshots because multiple shots at once can work you into a corner and with no mobility that means you're dead. use your superior range to attack from a safe distance.

Llanite12/12/2014, 7:16:31 PM1 votes

Mobile assassins are, as you said, just mobile. Most mages have range advantage, which translates into the same utility. What you might not see, assassins do NOT have CC or very hard to use (i.e. Fizz/Yasou) whilst every mage has AT LEAST one.

If you decide to play mages, get adc mindset - you have to kite, kite kite kite, don't just walk there and expect to kill.

Teridax6812/11/2014, 11:15:51 PM1 votes

Most mages, whose damage is primarily skillshot-based, tend to fare poorly against assassins, who are always mobile, which is why assassins became popular midlaners in the first place.

and Anivia tend to be especially vulnerable to assassins, due to their squishiness and enemy positioning-based damage, though with a lot of practice you can counter dives really well with both (both have stuns). and Lissandra , on the other hand, are really good anti-dive champions: Malzahar's ultimate is a point-and-click suppress, so just save it for any assassin diving you and you'll turn the tables on them, and 's crowd control can really mess up champions trying to engage on you (her ult can also cancel her opponent's assassination potential if timed right).

I'm an unranked jungle main scrub, so take this with a grain of salt, but I think the most important part of dealing with assassins is to counter their plays no matter what: if you, as a mage, miss your poke or your combo, you can still hang back from a safe distance and try again. If an assassin fails their dive against you, however, they fall seriously behind and leave themselves open to a deadly counterattack. Don't fight them while they're diving you, because they'll always be stronger, but instead just back off until they run out of steam, whereupon they'll have burned most of their kill potential and will give you a much easier time. Never use your crowd control to go for the kill unless you're absolutely sure you can pull it off and not die, because wasting your CC leaves you wide open for the assassin's combo. Every mage you listed also has phenomenal push potential, so I'd recommend you use that to full effectiveness by constantly putting pressure on mid lane: if your assassin stays, you can keep them under control and prevent them from snowballing. If they call for jungle help, you can take pressure of the other lanes and Dragon. If they roam, you can alert your team and punish your opponent by taking an early tower.

If you want an immobile mage main who does really well against assassins, I'd also recommend Viktor : casting Gravity Field directly on top of yourself will prevent any assassin from diving you (or punish them heavily if they do), and his late-game burst is so strong that you can bring literally any squishy down from 100 to 0 with an E + Q + item 3100 combo. He also has some of the strongest and most satisfying pushing power in the game for an AP champion (his augmented E one-shots caster minions early, and can one-shot entire waves later on). Out of the four assassins you mentioned, three ( Fizz , Katarina and Akali ) have abysmal early games: Viktor's Q poke gives cheap and super-strong guaranteed harass, and if you can land his laser reliably as well you can easily force these assassins out of lane repeatedly. If you fall behind or can't poke reliably, ranking Q first will also give you a measure of defense via its shield, and augmenting it first will give you enough mobility to retreat if things go sour.

RIP Tahm Kench12/11/2014, 11:41:46 PM1 votes

My favorite immobile mid pick is definitely Cho'Gath (he is also my only mid pick), and I love playing against all of those mobile champions you listed. The best part about Cho's kit is the extremely easy harass and silence effect with his W, and because of it and his passive hp gain from his stacks, he can build pure ap and still survive any dive by assassins (and possibly just turn around and eat them). People complain that you'll never get to land your Q against assassins, but you can do it very easily, just silence them first (duh).

The only problem I have with Cho is the fact that he is a counter meta-game pick, and does terribly against people with low cd cc and burst, specifically Syndra. Cho will get wrecked early game in that lane, so it's best to just pick up some MR first before going ap.

4nth0l0gy12/12/2014, 7:23:13 PM1 votes

Immobile mages are for a certain type of player, the player who likes to deal tons of damage to entire teams. They pack AoE spells, they typically have crazy range or else tankiness, their lower mobility means they are also lower risk. It's not that they CAN'T carry as hard as an assassin, it's that their strengths are better used for objectives than for kills. They control lanes, they zone for dragon and turret captures, and they stop you from turtling under a tower (they don't have to dive in to blow you up).

What kind of jungles do you play? If you like to go bruiser or tank, for example, galio or swain might be a good bet for you.