Just a reminder that Twitch and Varus basically received no real buffs

JustMyBassCannon·12/11/2015, 8:56:31 AM·14 votes·2,119 views

While a bunch of Marksmen received shiny reworks, and a bunch of others got tweaks and buffs (some indirectly through items, for example, Lucian), and while there's a lot of interesting balance discussion around all of them, I'd like to point out that two Marksmen only got very minor tweaks that haven't really helped them a whole lot in comparison.

Twitch lost ultimate duration in exchange for a lower cost/cooldown, and his stealth got a "refresh on kill/assist of poisoned target" trigger. While the ultimate tweak is kind of nice and makes sense with most steroid changes being made shorter to focus on windows of effectiveness, and while the stealth refresh is cool when you can actually get it, this does overlook that Twitch, overall, feels kind of wimpy compared to most Marksmen until the very end-game. I haven't really been keeping up much on Twitch personally, but statistics (and probably other Twitch players) can verify that he's not quite performing on the same level as the others.

From what I do know, however, the fact that his W loses half of its worth against a fully stacked target, and the fact that his passive's pathetic damage isn't contrasted by the rest of his kit having powerful interactions with it are both the main things I have heard when Twitch players speak up.

Varus got even less. His ultimate lost 100 base damage in exchange for auto-marking rooted targets over the duration. As in, you tag someone, they gain 1 mark per 0.66 seconds. Now, while dealing an extra 6-15% (+6% per 100 AP) of their maximum health is a significant boost over 100 flat damage, provided you do "turn and burn" (which you really have no reason not to do so, even if you're running away from the fight), this small buff hasn't really put him on the same level of strength as other Marksmen either.

The core problems of Varus' kit are actually pretty similar to some problems in the old Sion kit. Underwhelming passive that's, even when in use, more often than not worthless. Kit scaling where AD leaves half of his skills behind, and AP leaves the other half behind. Steroid that's only useful if you can make constant use of it, but instead of it being because it's a long-cooldown ultimate, it's because it's a low-duration passive. Desperately needs to get at least two full items without being shut down in order to stay relevant most of the game.

Of course, that's where the similarities end, but it still lines up the points rather well in my opinion.

And what's your opinion on the subject?

55 Comments

Critmaster Garen12/11/2015, 10:32:24 AM8 votes

essence reaver is enough of a buff for varus.

and his ult builds w stacks now, which was the direct buff he received. "but he cant 1v1 other adc". yea, that still doesnt mean hes weak by any means.

ive played him a couple of times since the changes and carried every time. hes more than solid.

{quoted}

Varus needs some changes. He isn't popular as DPS character at all. People use him as poking machine with raw AD and armor pen.

thats the ENTIRE idea behind his design. he pokes down his opponent with a good one or 2 q's and then goes in and finishes him off while using the grievous wounds effect on his e to win the fight.

and ive seen twitch stutter step entire teams to death with his ult running.

ProfDrDeath12/11/2015, 10:11:30 AM3 votes

http://champion.gg/champion/Twitch/ADC

Performance data seems to indicate that he is in a good spot, despite not receiving major buffs.

Especially his winrate/gamelength curve is interesting, in the regard that it puts him into the lategame oriented part of the ADCs.

Also, independent of the changes, the last time I did the calculations, Twitch had the highest potential single-target DPS out of all the ADCs, due to his two steroids. The presence of two steroids also means that the nerfs to the raw AD/AS amounts on ADC items did not hit him as hard as others, as he does not draw all his strength from items.

With his status as a lategame ADC, I'd also say that the current meta of early strengths and fast tower pushes is not the most conductive to him, either. I mean, he can benefit a lot from an unlocked map with his assassination potential in the mid-game, but he is not the best at laning and thus unlocking that potential.

Randomonium12/11/2015, 10:07:58 AM2 votes

Agreed. I'd also include Ezreal and Sivir in these groups. The new Essence Reaver definitely helps Ezreal and the new Zeal items help Sivir but it all feels very lackluster by comparison.

Variks the Loyal12/11/2015, 9:04:37 AM2 votes

As someone who used to play a lot of Twitch , I do think his buffs did very little to help him.

The stealth reset is the PERFECT thematic concept. Think of Twitch's boss fight in Blitzcrank's Poro Roundup. He was popping in and out of the sewer pipes, tossing poison at you, before jumping out to shoot you and finish you off. That is a good fantasy, but it's poorly lived up to. I think they should tie the Q reset passive to his ult - that is, it becomes a passive when you place a rank in your ult at level 6, and in exchange, for a short time after you score a kill on someone with Deadly Venom, your Q has a MUCH shorter, perhaps only 1 second, activation time.

I also think Venom Cask should be slightly reworked, so Twitch can have a little bit of a kiting ability. Not to the extent of other Marksman, since he is the one who can assassinate, but it should still be an option. I would give Venom Cask two charges (One when you place a rank in it, with the second charge starting it's CD, so you don't get an instant power spike in lane), no longer apply 2 Deadly Venom stacks (But still refreshing any stacks they have), and slow for an increased amount based on Deadly Venom stacks. This gives you further reward for stacking Deadly Venom on someone, without actually buffing Deadly Venom's damage to high levels.

I also think his passive should do increased damage to monsters, so I can use him in the jungle again :x

Cosnirak12/11/2015, 4:37:10 PM1 votes

I would love to see Varus' passive be changed to something more interesting. I don't have any good idea for it at the moment but maybe in a day or two I'll think of something and share it.

I thought the change to his ult would be good for him but so far in my experience it's actually a minor nerf. His ult is often the last spell he casts. If it's the first it's because he's using it desperately to run away and either dies before doing anything else or flashes over a wall and just runs for it.

At best he breaks even over all with sometimes being able to use the bonus stacks and some times not, but it feels based on luck more than skill as factors beyond your control typically decide if you can save a spell or not to proc the stacks post ult. In the later game he now often ends up with a lot more cdr than he did last season and that helps a little bit in regards to procing stacks from his ult. The ult spreading and then giving people stacks also takes a relatively long time. I've always felt like his ult should spread faster than it does.

A neat idea I just had is his ult working like his Q in terms of being a spell you charge up before releasing. It could cast the same way, gain range the same way (maybe slightly lower max range for balance reasons). I don't think it'd be wise to let it gain more damage from charging up though, but perhaps could apply stacks faster and/or spread faster based on charging it up longer. I could see it being too good if not balanced carefully.

The biggest problem for Varus right now though is actually the same as it always has been. His mana is REALLY bad early on. It gets a lot better once he gets ER of course. The problem is that it feels like before ER he's balanced as if he had another 150-250 mana than he does, effectively being really weak in the laning phase. Obviously he can't have too good of mana or else he'll just poke his lane opponent out every time, even if he misses a lot. But right now even if he hits all but 1 Q it seems like he can't actually win the 2v2 because he runs out of mana.

Karn Bishop12/11/2015, 5:29:25 PM1 votes

I will say this now, i would rather have a varus and twitch on my team then suffer though playing with a sivir.

SpecterVonBaren12/11/2015, 5:41:03 PM1 votes

I'm actually kinda surprised at how useful the change to Twitch's Q is. That reset is actually really useful in teamfights for staying out of the enemies reach and picking someone off that's away from their team and then getting away before you're collapsed on. He still clearly needs some more work but that was a surprisingly useful buff.

Puynsi12/11/2015, 6:30:48 PM1 votes

VARUS IS NOT ADC STOP.

Dominick Destine12/11/2015, 8:13:35 PM1 votes

Varus will always suck.

The only way he will ever be strong is if his numbers are jacked up to a ridiculous amount.... his utility is poor (Unlike Ashe), his damage is poor (Unlike Jinx/Kog), he has no defensive mechanism (Unlike Vayne/Kalista/Corki/Lucian/Graves/etc.)... he's basically garbage. He's like Kog without the damage.

Olath Quortek12/12/2015, 6:25:47 AM1 votes

Huh? AP Varus got hella buffed! >:3

goldensilver0912/12/2015, 7:51:11 AM1 votes

Recived next to no buffs COMPARED to the others. The items are Buff nough for players who play this champs. The reset on Q and nerf on Ult pissed me off, then i played him and had SO much fun. they are in a good Spot, not competitive level, but not bad.

Stellafreyja12/13/2015, 4:15:34 AM1 votes

I think what's funny right now is that according to champion.gg, Varus has the highest winrate among ADCs.

Secretlolz12/11/2015, 10:15:07 AM1 votes

Underplayed = Not important to tweak and balance since they aren't making as much $$$ as let's say, Vayne and her skins.

Ionian12/11/2015, 11:09:56 AM1 votes

Reminder that most champions got a mana pool buff due to the removal of flask/pots but Ahri didn't. Please.

Solidair312/11/2015, 2:58:01 PM1 votes

With Essence Reaver, I really have felt very powerful as Varus. I usually go ER > attack speed item of choice (I have been favoring runaan's) > Infinity Edge/last whisper upgrade > the other thing I didn't get

And I dunno, it's been going well. Despite not receiving the biggest buff I feel he's in a pretty okay, spot. I feel like straight up buffing him more would probably be unwise and lead to some difficulty with balance. He doesn't really need his AS steroid to be readily available (After all, he was designed with that passive in order to make him feel unique in that space)

As for Twitch, his champion.gg stats suggest he is on the stronger side. 51% winrate, placing him at #6 in terms of adc power. I don't play Twitch. Like ever. But in the few games I've been against one, he seems to do okay. The other day one of them literally pentakilled my team by himself at baron. It was awful.