AP Late Game JG Options After Killing Dark Harvest

LaughingStapler·10/31/2018, 6:50:09 PM·26 votes·11,297 views
New Dark Harvest: Awful + Less Skillful + Different Identity

The PBE Dark Harvest not only drastically lowers strategic decision making and skill expression (yes, really) but also robs junglers of an attractive late game team-fight option which isn't just tied to AD champions. Conqueror and PTA remain excellent JG options throughout the game and do not give laners an unfair advantage but these are both almost exclusively for AD junglers. AD Junglers have strong and reliable sustained damage keystones but the same isn't true for AP junglers. Aery doesn't scale, is quite situational and simply isn't in the same class. Arcane Comet isn't going to be an effective jungle keystone, is unreliable and again doesn't scale particularly well.

They don't have to abandon certain more late game play styles (although they suffer for lack of options as well). For example, Kayn can just switch to Conqueror and be as much of a late game threat as with the DH variant. On the other hand, AP junglers get shafted hard by these changes. There are fewer effective play style options. Electrocute is alright on many of them but they no longer get to choose what power spikes to play for. Their playstyle becomes restricted and that's never fun. Currently, you can go DH Eve or you can go Electrocute and the win-rates are pretty comparable in high ELO. This is true for many champions and that feels good. You get to decide how to play the game based on the matchups and your style.

The current DH gives AP junglers an option to trade early game power for the potential to be more of a late game threat. While it's not exactly a sustained damage option, it can function that way to an extent. You don't need to land a combo like for Electrocute and almost every teamfight will have deaths on either side (or perhaps even a dying cannon etc.). If you are attentive and play the fight well, you can proc. DH multiple times.

It becomes a pseudo sustained damage option and lets you internally snowball a teamfight in certain scenarios. The new DH does reset on takedowns but I believe it's coded to have exceptions for some types of AoE such as Luden's and of course the 50% HP threshold is awkward as well. Moreover, it no longer lets you get stacks from dead teammates so you can't get that heroic comeback to turn the sacrificed soulds of your teammates into some critical kills. A lot of the high points and outplay options are gone. I'm not looking for a one-shot option. I'm looking for a late game scaling teamfight rune for APs.

Moreover, keep in mind that not all AP junglers have good AoE, just like not all have good enough burst to put someone near the threshold. Thus, the takedown resets will differ drastically based not on how well you play but on what kit your champion has. This new version is way more niche. In the live iteration, you can have minimal AoE but simply pick up stacks by paying attention to what's happening in the fight and positioning accordingly. It doesn't give you any more benefit to have high AoE in the kit or high burst. You can even build creatively based on the game if you need to. An Elise can get tanky after a few AP items and she doesn't have to worry about her keystone becoming useless.

Due to defensive itemization and the unreliability of landing combos., AP burst champions tend to fall off as the game goes on. They're generally most effective when it's a clown fiesta early-mid game and you can pick up easy kills in the chaos. AP junglers are very dependent on good positioning and surprising enemies to land their combos.

AD junglers don't have as many problems late game because they can continue to be useful even without having to one shot someone or land anything. Take Camille for Instance. Even if she can't stun you, her sheen procs. and autos will slaughter you if she has the ability to stick a little. On the other hand, if Elise misses her combo, she does virtually nothing and that level of unreliabilty late game can be very costly. Without the live DH, AP junglers become even riskier picks and are more reliant on early-mid game than ever before. Room for creativity in style, itemization, picks etc. is reduced while also lowering the skillcap of the game. The live DH is an easy rune to understand but actually has quite a lot of tricks which can lead to significantly differing effectiveness for more skilled players. This change is not good for the game as a whole and feels totally unnecessary.

19 Comments

Fear the Kayn10/31/2018, 7:39:54 PM20 votes

Honestly I don't think Dark Harvest needed any changes. It was pretty well balanced considering you really needed decent farm and kills for it to be strong, and it was weak early. Who was even complaining about it besides ADCs who solo pushed all the way to 2nd tier towers like iron 5 players and got tilted because an assassin can one shot them.

6Sfool10/31/2018, 7:59:16 PM8 votes

I like the changes. Current Dark Harvest is pretty binary. It gives you a short power window after every cannon wave, camp clear, and takedown where you do extra damage. It promotes hasty decisions where you decide to engage earlier than you should just because you have a stack that's about to expire. It's also a little ridiculous on poke champions in lane, creating some very annoying low-risk burst damage.

The new iteration though, it is less tied to these ridiculous little power windows, and more to controllable circumstances. Enemies can avoid the extra punishment by playing back and keeping their health up. Now stacking souls only rewards players who are aggressive enough to make continued trades or high-investment ganks, not just champs who built mobi-boots and chase after scuttle. It's also less free power for people who don't contribute much to the fight. If an assassin jumps on the adc and chunks him but doesn't kill him, he can't just hide until the ally darius ults the enemy diver. He has to actually help secure a kill to get that reset.

Ðrox11/1/2018, 2:04:57 PM2 votes

I dunno man. Some decent points here but all I really see is 'Skillshots give you the ability to suck' and I don't really feel like an Elise who can't land a cocoon needs the ability to delete me in .2 seconds without me being able to retaliate. And she's already got that rappel that is a giant get out of jail free card and lets her turret dive at literally level 2. It's pretty feelsbadman when a fed ad gets on you and you just cannot peel them off, but it's even worse when a Nidalee misses 72,356,235 spears but the moment she lands just one that's it you're literally just dead. Yeah, ADs have more consistency, but that's because their damage is usually 'Right click them' and 'Make right click them do something else'. (Jax w, Xin q, Yi e, Shyvana e+q, etc.)

wolvius11/1/2018, 10:11:57 AM1 votes

In going to miss dark harvest Eve on aram, strategically retreating from a clusterfuck team fight low hp and running from the chasing sona to just delete her with E Dh and lich.

Trias00011/1/2018, 12:39:49 PM1 votes

The only meta AP junglers - Taliyah and Gragas, use electrocute (and predator in case of the fatso) anyway.

Gilgayu11/1/2018, 7:12:54 PM1 votes

wait guys if the new DH doesn't scale off jg camps anymore, does that means now its a keystone for lanes rather than the jg.

For example, imagine two tank top lanes just keep staying under 50% hp to keep stack DH's passive, lolololol

Gilgayu10/31/2018, 11:55:54 PM1 votes

Great job Laughing Stapler... Couldn't said it better myself

DH is just fine right now, but maybe Riot think some champs are abusing it (like graves and kayn really into late game).

I still like the old DH better.

Sharpest glasses11/1/2018, 12:38:48 AM1 votes

the bias toward AP champ is real.

AD junglers don't have as many problems late game because they can continue to be useful even without having to one shot someone or land anything. Take Camille for Instance.

Camille dosnt even use DH.

anyway DH change sucks for every DH jng. For Elise, Ekko, Fizz, Taliyah, nidalee... they arent more impacted than a Kha or x DH user.