I swear Riot didn't want their game to snowball.. Giving a 8% damage buff is retarded.. 9/10 the team that gets Dragon is the team with the winning bottom lane. That 8% buff makes it nearly impossible for a losing lane to come back.
I can understand if it was the 4th buff. But the very first buff? That's silly. In my opinion, it should go like this.
First Dragon: Movement speed buff Second Dragon: 15% damage to minions Third Dragon: 15% damage to towers Fourth Dragon: 8% damage
8% dmg is 4-7 AD. I don't see the issue here?
On live it's 190g, 5.3 AD w/ long sword or a large push toward BF.
Because Riot wants people dead
I swear that 8% should be one of the final buffs, like the 4th one
8% at the time of first dragon might as well be no buff at all,it's like 6 AD.
Also,the damage buff is first so that enemy team has an easy chance to catch up damage wise.Just kill dragon once and you both have the most important part of the buff.If it was last then if you're behind you lose all hope of getting the buff
You have to look at it by the numbers. When most players get that first buff usually they have about what 100 ad/Ap. so by getting that first buff you are only getting about 8 actually damage increase. Its a buff that scales well and should be gotten early so you can feel the full effect. When you complete that IE you get an additional ~8 ad or that Deathcap you get ~9 AP. Its really not that much in the grand scheme of things. I could do a lot more with a couple of the other buffs than having and additional 8 ad as an ADC.
You are all going crazy over something minuscule. Allow me to explain : Most teams don't get the first drag till around the 8-10 minute mark ( games I've been in). This is around level 6-8 depending on lane, now at this time most champs will have around 100 ad or about 120ap. Getting dragon buff then gives them literally 8 extra ad or 9.6 extra ap about the same as a dorans item. Which you were about able to buy off dragon before changes give or take a few minions. Early it means little to nothing, later is when it starts to matter. When you have more items, now that 8% gives what normally would be 200-300 ad now is 216 -324 ad or what was 400 -600ap is now 432- 648ap even in late game that only gives an extra long sword- pickaxe or amp tomb -blasting wand addition. So what are you whining about this 8% for?
Since this change I've won against teams with 2-6 drags to my teams 0-1 or maybe 2 drags it is so small a difference it would be around the same as if drag gave you gold. As a few have said if you lose lane or a teamfight from 5 extra ad/ap early then you are dumb. You can still beat a team with 5 drags by taking baron and out rotating or out team fighting the enemy. I actually feel it is less snowbally but easier to close games when you have a significant edge but it still allows for insane combacks.
Having the damage buff first actually makes a lot of sense. That way if one team has 4 dragons and the other team only has 1, the team that's ahead doesn't have a large advantage in teamfights. If the enemy is controlling dragons and has a lot of them, the other team only has to steal 1 to get the damage back.
The order is a bit odd, I agree.
I still don't get the point of permanent buffs from the dragon. What was wrong with gold? I don't get riot's insistence on fixing what isn't broken and neglecting what is.
It was tweaked on the PBE a few days ago
Dragon's Might has been reduced to 6% from 8% +15% damage to towers and buildings is now granted at two stacks instead of four. +15% damage to minions and monsters is now granted at four stacks instead of two.
that plus the greater first blood gold, we are back to season 3 levels of snowballiness, pro-games are gonna be really boring
Hey guys, go listen to this http://tforce.trinityforcepodcast.com/?p=965 21:12- "First Dragon buff vs Towers" GC and two other devs explain exactly why these buffs are what they are and in what order. It makes perfect sense.
I think it's the right choice to reward a team with 8% damage for taking a strategic advantage. No matter how you look at it, getting dragon is the result of taking a strategic advantage whether it is vision advantage, tp advantage, or taking a dragon when the bot lane recalls. The fact that people are losing the games when the first dragon is taken by the enemy team is probably because the enemy team is playing a better team game. I have personally won several games where we lost first dragon and when the enemy team had 5 dragons. 8% damage is not enough to lose the game, but it's enough to be able to push an advantage you already have.
If you move 8% damage to the 3rd aspect of dragon, the first two dragons really don't have the same weight on them. You are making strategic trades of maybe a tower or 2 and map control for 8% damage. instead you'll be trading a tower or 2 and map control of that area for 15% damage to minions? i wouldn't want to trade that.
I'd be fine with the buffs if certain junglers couldn't solo it. Baron and dragon are meant to be something people can teamfight over for its awesome buff, slightly depressing to go over to ward dragon and notice the pantheon just walked away with it with no effort. It's like a jungle buff for the whole team.
They need to actually make dragon hard to kill where you need at LEAST 3 people. You shouldn't have to be afraid once your ward goes down that their jungler will just go snatch it up.
With the dragon, my team always seems to get behind taking it early. Then we stall so they don't get turrets and keep taking dragons. Then when we get the 4th one. we group and win the game.
My face when I solo drag at lvl 5 for free with fiddle.
Whatever happened to releasing something at its weakest, then gradually buffing it up?
For people saying 8% increased dmg does nothing early:
Katarina has 250% AP and 375% AD ratios on ult. That means her ult damage increases by 50% from ratios alone. That's actually pretty huge.
I agree! I think maybe they should change the first buff to the bonus resistances (MAYBE) that way if the team that got the first dragon sacrificed their top lane to get it, maybe the toplaner could come back in lane by being more tanky!
TBH tho I think new dragon buffs are insanely op. 9/10 times the team with more dragons wins. It seems really snowball, which is what I thought riot was against.
It would have made more sense to have the minion/monster damage buff as first indeed.
Well, this is just my opinion, but before the new SR and jungle changes, 70% of teams that took first dragon ended up winning the game. I figure that hasn't changed too much in the new season and if dragon was taken, hopefully it was a team effort and would typically occur at the end of the laning phase. It's a risky objective without some map control such as towers down in bot or mid. Once again, just my opinion but it makes a little sense to me.
Ok I've been seeing a few threads about how the first dragon buff is stupidly strong for the first benchmark, and while I don't disagree, there is a reason riot put it first. It's for the sake of fairness to both teams. Lets go with the idea of switching the third and first dragon buff for hypothetical reasons. Say in a game one team has been hoarding dragons over the other, and taken every one up to the third buff. They now have gained a massive power increase, while the other team is pretty much starved. Having the damage buff being third, it would take the other team three more dragons (which in near impossible to reach in game time) to reach that same level of power, items and lvl's aside. However, with it being the first buff like it is on live, they only need to get dragon one time to be on par, which is completely manageable at any point in the game. The reason it's first is because its the one buff that shouldn't decide the match.
9/10 the team that gets Dragon is the team with the winning bottom lane.
Look at pantheon, perfect example of how this is untrue, Regardless of who is winning bot lane, unless you have dragon warded and are totally prepared to go to dragon at the exact moment it spawns then he takes it without anyone knowing. There are many other junglers who can solo dragon pre 6 mins so pantheon isnt the only case
Right, but it makes dragon even more critical in extremely close games.
Think about it for a couple of minutes. Use your brain please, the answer isn't that hard to guess
To all the people saying that the 8% means nothing early, then why does the team that gets it first usually snowball consistently? It may only be 8 AD or 10 AP, but thats something, and the fact is that they get it immediately, they don't have to back and spend gold. So, if a team gets first drag and then the other team comes in to fight them, they are that much stronger than them right then, they don't even have to base and buy
Now, maybe I've just been unlucky or something so far, but I've yet to play a game where the team that secured the first dragon did not continue on to go 4-0 dragons.
