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Responses to Anyone Defending Mordekaiser Changes (@CertainlyT)

Adrian Umbra·8/5/2015, 7:48:00 PM·88 votes·5,289 views

First, I'd like to say that I'm not entirely opposed to Mordekaiser getting reworked. However, this particular rework is such an irritating one, especially with so many players saying he's in a better place or to trust Riot, that I feel the need to counter some of the silly arguments I've seen and setting facts straight.

Mordekaiser can use his W on a minion, his solo lane ability is still there.

Mordekaiser cannot use his W on a minion, if he wants to play in a solo lane or even ends up in a 1vX scenario, he is down an ability. CertainlyT has flat out stated that he couldn't find a healthy way for Mordekaiser to exist in a solo lane, so apparently he needs to be a duo laner now.

His E is totally gimped/his E is so much better.

His level 1 damage with E is better, his E damage when it is maxed is worse (by ~10-30 damage depending on level). Yes, this gets better as he builds AD. But the fact still remains that his wave clear got hit pretty hard, especially with the removal of his Q AoE.

He's unusable in his current state, so this rework is fine since they're making him usable.

He's totally usable in his current state. Viability is also not a reason to destroy a champion's identity like this.

His shield is stronger since it scales off health.

His shield already scaled off resistances (which he lost from his W), you still need to fill up the bar, his shield generation was nerfed, and do people legitimately want Mordekaiser to have to build everything? As things stand, he needs health, resistances, AD, AP, and MS.

Calm down, it's on the PBE, so nothing is final.

Cassiopeia Veigar Sona I've lost a lot of trust in Riot because they push changes like this through despite player protest and then disappear after promising followup.

DRAGON GHOS-

I'm sick and tired of hearing about this as an excuse to stuff his entire power budget there. A situational minion does nothing to help Morde for 95% of the game, which is where the rest of his power budget comes in.

Q DAMAGE SO HIGH!

His Q damage is spread across 3 hits. On a non-mobile melee champion with no CC. Sure, it's gonna hit like a truck if you level it, the enemy stands still for you, and you build offense, but it also lost the wave clear AoE element that Mordekaiser loved.

Mordekaiser will still be the same champion.

This is one that I heavily disagree with. An AP solo lane burst mage who pushes waves and farms to lategame is not the same as an AD duo lane bruiser who tries to bully his lane and has a lot of his damage locked in a 200 range radius around him. The only things that I feel stayed the same are the durability aspect, the immobility, and his ult, all of which were made worse by the rework.

Edit:

These changes were necessary for him to be reworked.

Changes were necessary for him to become a better champion. But I'm really questioning how being more easily kited, forced bot lane, and built AD makes him easier to balance short of throwing him in a trash heap and calling it a day. Changes were necessary, I'll agree. But I'm baffled why Riot thinks THESE changes were necessary.

If you have any other arguments to add, think I'm wrong, or have anything else to say, post a comment. I'll try to reply as I can.

96 Comments

Aaravos8/5/2015, 8:17:23 PM78 votes

"CertainlyT has flat out stated that he couldn't find a healthy way for Mordekaiser to exist in a solo lane" like he ever made a healthy kit.

Señor Karthus8/5/2015, 8:01:42 PM50 votes

People defending the changes are people who:

  • don't main him -never played him -hated to play against him because they can't understand his weaknesses -Riven mains
stuartk118/5/2015, 8:07:13 PM14 votes

I'm very doubtful that any amount of arguing will change this from being pushed through. With the item changes in the same patch, they want all of these fighter-style champions out with their new items (and changes to current ones) enough for judgement before worlds. So regardless of whether these champions stay the same, or further changes are made, the changes will go through - for better or (more likely) for worse. I'm actually not against the idea of putting Morde into bot lane as long as it is handled well. You would expect that this would be handled well, since Riot has a lot of experience now with these types of mini-reworks and tentative changes. It's also being done by a designer who has done a lot of larger-scale work. But after reading the changes, I am skeptical that they have addressed the rather massive glaring issue that should have honestly been at the top of things to address. Why play him in his new role?

I haven't heard CertainlyT directly answer this question. He has avoided it to the best of his abilities, but I'm not falling for it. Simply saying that you can play it "instead of a typical ADC" is NOT an answer. That is the definition of what he would be, yes, but it's not a reason to play him instead of an ADC. Currently, in his current state, he is horrible there. He has trouble CSing with his lower range and lesser early-game laning, has little harass with the change to his Q and will get poked out hard with lower base HP, worse shield generation, and having to use his health as a resource (with low HP regen as the cherry on the sundae). I doubt anyone will read this anyways, so I guess I'll stop ranting.

Matezoide8/5/2015, 8:15:04 PM10 votes

Literally the only people that are defending this are the ones that have never touched Mord in their entire life.

Literally 10 games so far where Mord hasnt won once on the PBE.

In all of my (Admitedly short) time as a LoL player, i have never seen a champion this weak on release. Even on the first day i saw the likes of Yasuo and Bard doing decently in their matches and actually winning games.

Mordekaiser tho? Literally didnt see him doing well at all. Whenever i decided to spectate a game on the PBE that had Mord, he was also on the losing side. And i saw him building just about everything you can think of.

Saw a Tank Mord, saw AD, saw AP, saw Hybrid. Nothing felt good. Nothing.

Tusutaki8/6/2015, 10:30:45 AM8 votes

You forgot one more thing

Anomander8/5/2015, 9:33:10 PM5 votes

Mordekaiser cannot use his W on a minion, if he wants to play in a solo lane or even ends up in a 1vX scenario, he is down an ability. CertainlyT has flat out stated that he couldn't find a healthy way for Mordekaiser to exist in a solo lane, so apparently he needs to be a duo laner now.

This part does suck however they basically doubled the effective damage and gave it a heal. As the damage does stack for both people using it.

W: Reworked •New passive: Mordekaiser receives full experience from any lane minion he kills •New active -- Harvesters of Sorrow: Mordekaiser and target ally champion gain 75 MS while moving toward one another. •When close to one another, both deal magic damage to nearby enemies over 4 seconds. •Ability can be reactivated to instantly deal ~40% of the total DoT and heal Mordekaiser and his ally for the damage dealt (heal takes 3 units maximum; 33% heal to minions) •Health cost removed.

His level 1 damage with E is better, his E damage when it is maxed is worse (by ~10-30 damage depending on level). Yes, this gets better as he builds AD. But the fact still remains that his wave clear got hit pretty hard, especially with the removal of his Q AoE.

This is accurate as at lvl 1 no ad items on runes he gets 38 bonus damage and at lvl 18 he would receive 86 bonus damage with no ad items at all. Which means at lvl 18 a loss of 9 damage if you have 0 ad items. However you will out scale this with just masterys/runes.

E: •Base damage reduced from 70/115/160/205/250 >>> 35/65/95/125/155 •Now also scales with 0.6 total AD •Cooldown from 6 >>>> 6/5.75/5.5/5.25/5 •Now grants 15% of maximum shield on champion hits

His shield already scaled off resistances (which he lost from his W), you still need to fill up the bar, his shield generation was nerfed, and do people legitimately want Mordekaiser to have to build everything? As things stand, he needs health, resistances, AD, AP, and MS.

Passive: •Shield decay per second now 2% of base hp (up from 3% max shield) •Shield no longer decays below 25% •Max shield from per level to 25% of max HP •Shield generation is now 25% of damage dealt, from 35%

This is both a buff and a nerf.
Will a decent Hp build either ap or ad the shield will be much larger and decay slower. However your ap burst mordes shield is drastically nerfed.

As far as the generation of the shield it is actually a overall net buff as the changed to e outlined above give it 15% of MAX shield on top of the damage generation.(e is the most reliable skill morde has outside of ult) Making a Bruiser build far better over all.

I'm sick and tired of hearing about this as an excuse to stuff his entire power budget there. A situational minion does nothing to help Morde for 95% of the game, which is where the rest of his power budget comes in.

^ agreed. However it does push more for a dragon control theme when playing morde.

His Q damage is spread across 3 hits. On a non-mobile melee champion with no CC. Sure, it's gonna hit like a truck if you level it, the enemy stands still for you, and you build offense, but it also lost the wave clear AoE element that Mordekaiser loved.

Q: •Now buffs Mordekaisers next 3 attacks. •Each does 2x-3x the last, increasing with spell rank (e.g., if the first hit deals 100 damage, the third deals 900).

He lost the aoe on his q and this does hurt his clear for a solo lane. Although having just played him on the PBE against a ahri mid I can tell you that you can still shove a lane plenty hard. And the damage from the q is insane and is all off of scaling with ap/ad not off lvl which means it is always maxed last. Let me say it again, Never Never max q first on the new morde.

This is one that I heavily disagree with. An AP solo lane burst mage who pushes waves and farms to lategame is not the same as an AD duo lane bruiser who tries to bully his lane and has a lot of his damage locked in a 200 range radius around him. The only things that I feel stayed the same are the durability aspect, the immobility, and his ult, all of which were made worse by the rework.

This is solely your opinion and not really based off the original design of the character. For several seasons morde has only been built as a Burst mage. However he was never intended to be a burst mage but a heavy sustain bruiser. He is meant to go into a battle and keep in it with his shield and sustained damage. While he will not be the same as he has been since mid s3 till today. he will be closer inline with his intended character design.

alaskaneagle8/5/2015, 8:50:23 PM3 votes

54367

I've been on vacation so I haven't looked at the mord changes or even the patch notes yet, but it sounds like riot is ruining another champ with a rework. They should just fire their entire rework department.

agbudar8/6/2015, 4:12:11 PM2 votes
  1. fact is his shield will only reach the same current levels around 2.5 k hp after that it gets better then the current iteration.this is not that hard since his hp per level is getting buffed and if one builds liandries and crystal sceptre (which he really should be building in the first place) he will have surpased that so overal this is a mayor buff.
  2. his shield degeneration got nerfed hard which is a buff also he gets to keep 25% of his shield at all times. this makes his shield more reliable another one of my biggest gripes with nerfs in the past (which really made his shield not very reliable when you needed it)
  3. 15% max shield for all enemy champs hit with E. Now me as a morde main in team fights angle my E so i hit at least 3 enemy champions thats 45% shield in one hit thats also roughly 300-400 shield with one ability that will be spamable as fuk with CDR.
  4. a PET DRAGON ghost yes this is purely so that you can push towers imo nothing else its objective controll this is a buff.

anyways after that everything is basically a nerf to morde why?

because they are nerfing his movespeed from 340 to 325 more commonly found on RANGED AA CHAMPS. HE IS FUKIN MELEE. this makes all "EXTRA" damage on mace of spades FUKIN MOOT. and WHY THE FUK CAN CERTAINLyT CREATE KALISTA WITHOUT 1 shred of guilt but is incapable of making mordekaiser capable of solo laning?

its like a bad dream really.

Voidgolem8/5/2015, 8:17:44 PM2 votes

I will say that his numbers need tweaking as it is. They lowballed everything again, as they do in every significant rework :\

xl Kirito lx8/5/2015, 8:31:31 PM2 votes

Sure, I'll try my hand here. I'm fine with the Morde changes, if for nothing else then it's something new or forcing a change. While I respect that the champion is changing, and people who've mained him for a period of time are worried, this still looks like it will be something to see how it works.

Fiora was changed from ult and pray, to something that requires a resemblance of skill. Ahri got large scale buffs after the removal of DFG, and say what you will, but Veigars instant stun was slightly toxic. In turn, the Cass rework happened, so Riot's been hit or miss.

Overall, this feels like a wait and see kind of think, before judging on how bad this turns out. I accept the fact that this will get downvoted by the masses for expressing an opinion that contradicts the current popular one, but such is the life on the Gameplay and Balance board.

Worth noting, I've lost all respect for anything that the boards say in terms of balance. "Let's buff Elise." "Let's nerf Ekko." "Riven OP, nerf." Albeit, the last one seems more like a joke anymore, people still repeat it.

Sugar Mantis8/5/2015, 9:45:40 PM2 votes

Mord has an incredible solo lane presence. He has little counter play, but the nerf to his w is kind of stupid. However, it does provide extra bonuses for following up on ganks, such as movespeed, which gives him solo lane potential should he fall behind. I do think the fact that theyre trying to make him a duo laner is retarded though.

Kuroi868/6/2015, 1:35:37 AM2 votes

Because it's Riots game and they have to do what they think is best for balance and health in the game. Our opinions on this matter are all biased and pointless and this thread and every other complaining about the changes is largely pointless unless you can come up with ideas to help improve the reworks.

And no "Remove it and re-institute the previous iteration." is not a helpful idea.

Shoot Them Dead8/5/2015, 9:43:50 PM1 votes

I think the changes are in the right direction. Numbers are just off.

But then again, thats how I always feel with CertainlyT.

Koldheartedjsp8/5/2015, 7:51:57 PM1 votes

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