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Rageblade discussion.

ForTheCode··2 votes·2,285 views

Is flat %15 Penetration (from scaling by level to %15 Penetration) really a sufficient compensatory reallocation of power from the Phantom Hit nerf? Rageblade is already an item you want to pick up 3rd or 4th on most champs which is late enough in the game that the penetration difference is minimal and dwindles to nothing, but the item itself has been significantly nerfed.

I don't disagree that Phantom hit needed to be nerfed (as Riot say, to shift power away from the high synergy champs with on-hit effects in their kits to a more generic item) but isn't there a way of keeping the overall power of rageblade as well?

I hope the balance team will look at Rageblade further because it's an extremely unique and fun item to use, and it doesn't have to be abusable to be that way.

How would you tune Rageblade to have the same overall power as 9.9 but have it distributed more evenly across its multiple facets so it became more accessible to more champs without it being oppressive on 3-4?

Perhaps if we come up with some good ideas, Meddler and his team will take notice?

  • More AD/AP?
  • More %penetration?
  • A %10 buff to the phantom hit, keeping the "every third" attack proc?

15 Comments

Dracocrash3 votes

It is meant to be a straight up nerf. I have no problem with rageblade being viable but with the way it is right now, it is eliminating build diversity in champions and I would much rather they keep it nerfed, than balance champions around it. (RIP Kog'maw)

ForTheCode1 votes

The thing is some champs that have rageblade users that aren't typical of the wider player base of that particular champion (like teemo, most people don't use rageblade but some regularly do) won't get balanced around rageblade nerfs, which sucks for the sake of the fun-ness of using Rageblade.

iPogoZ1 votes

{quoted}

The thing is some champs that have rageblade users that aren't typical of the wider player base of that particular champion (like teemo, most people don't use rageblade but some regularly do) won't get balanced around rageblade nerfs, which sucks for the sake of the fun-ness of using Rageblade.

Rageblade teemo adc is super fun but he should be fine, he already has good build options without it item 3091 item 3115 item 3151 item 3085 item 3022 item 3095 item 3165 item 3116 item 3812

If you want a good teemo build go item 3115 item 3151 item 3022 item 3085 Nash for early damage, liandry for the burn damage on poison also increases magic damage by 10%, mallet doubles the burn on liandry and makes his kiting insane, also makes him fairly tanky expecially if combined with deaths dance.

Khuri2 votes

This nerf is just riots way of saying, "Welcome to the League of Tanks". No one will buy RB after these nerfs.

iPogoZ1 votes

{quoted}

This nerf is just riots way of saying, "Welcome to the League of Tanks". No one will buy RB after these nerfs.

Leave now, how can you possibly complain about tanks in the meta right now. I don't really play tanks as I am a marksmen main but like seriously bro. In the top 25 winrates there are legit only 3 tanks. Rammus Sejuani Nautilus .

Like according to op.gg the highest rated tank top laner is poppy at 28th, 28th!!!!!!! For jungle there is rammus and sejuani but that's it for top 20 For mid and adc there are legit no actual tanks building tank And support has a solid amount of tanks but they arn't actually that tanky because they build more supportive items likeitem 3109 item 3401 item 3190 item 3107 item 3050

Also sejuani and rammus might get hit by the aftershock changes and the trundle buffs.

XJ999999999999991 votes

too broken of an item. remove it so other attack speed items get more love. making all your effects go up that high with 1 item is broken.

ForTheCode1 votes

Would you care to elaborate on attack speed items could be shown some love?

XJ999999999999991 votes

{quoted}

Would you care to elaborate on attack speed items could be shown some love?

blade king and rage blade are very over tuned items.

blade king is good at all stages of the game. People finally caught on how strong of an item it is on practically anyone (especially ranged carries). Even if the target isn't a tank and has 1000 hp, that's 80 damage. 500 hp? 40 damage. It gives such sweet stats any melee/ bruiser/ranged would want that it's just ridiculous. It's honestly most abusive with ranged carries, should lower it back down to 6%. The fact you heal from the 8% damage you heal as well is pretty insane. It also works extremely well with rev hunter from the domination tree so I'm surprised it hasn't been tuned down besides the rune.

It's just why build a wits end which only gives healing at low health and isn't that high for ranged champions? Not really any reason besides just an extra buy on top of everything else as it's either that or maw. Most adcs get maw such as kai'sa, as it has a life line effect which destroys what wits end offers.

Rageblade is the item every attack speed character builds after their 1st item. Why? Because their skills do way more damage at that point in the game that scale with attack speed and it's to amplify blade king or storm ragers (or yi with devourer). Once you have 2-3 items, you have so much attack speed buying more on hit is a poor choice so it's better to just buy actual items. No room for niche attack speed items like Wits end as they are just not that good in comparison.

I remember when I came back to this game and when I saw rageblade also gave up to 15% magic and armor pen, just wow. So on top of already doing a ton of damage, AD, and AP, it even further scales your late game as you don't need to buy an armor pen item like last whisperer or a void staff (rageblade users don't really build void staff). It also already deals on hit damage so again, just beats everything else along with blade king.

They just make it hard for riot make new items that fill niches and actual grant item diversity. Every build is literally the same now a days in this game with any attack speed class like Yi and AD carries that aren't crit due to this. Champions like Shyvana can build rage blade but she has no huge damage reduction/untargable moves so unless your playing in low elo you have to buy more tanky things.

Should just make rage blade the old AD/AP/attack speed each hit (maybe even scrap the attack speed and make it cheaper, I don't know) and up the armor/magic % to up to 25% to make hybrid damage really scale well.

I'm not a fan of just being "outplayed" by auto attack champions that deal so much damage that is hard to read on screen of "where the hell did that come from/what do I do against that".

Moonscourge1 votes

{quoted}

blade king and rage blade are very over tuned items.

blade king is good at all stages of the game. People finally caught on how strong of an item it is on practically anyone (especially ranged carries). Even if the target isn't a tank and has 1000 hp, that's 80 damage. 500 hp? 40 damage. It gives such sweet stats any melee/ bruiser/ranged would want that it's just ridiculous. It's honestly most abusive with ranged carries, should lower it back down to 6%. The fact you heal from the 8% damage you heal as well is pretty insane. It also works extremely well with rev hunter from the domination tree so I'm surprised it hasn't been tuned down besides the rune.

It's just why build a wits end which only gives healing at low health and isn't that high for ranged champions? Not really any reason besides just an extra buy on top of everything else as it's either that or maw. Most adcs get maw such as kai'sa, as it has a life line effect which destroys what wits end offers.

Rageblade is the item every attack speed character builds after their 1st item. Why? Because their skills do way more damage at that point in the game that scale with attack speed and it's to amplify blade king or storm ragers (or yi with devourer). Once you have 2-3 items, you have so much attack speed buying more on hit is a poor choice so it's better to just buy actual items. No room for niche attack speed items like Wits end as they are just not that good in comparison.

I remember when I came back to this game and when I saw rageblade also gave up to 15% magic and armor pen, just wow. So on top of already doing a ton of damage, AD, and AP, it even further scales your late game as you don't need to buy an armor pen item like last whisperer or a void staff (rageblade users don't really build void staff). It also already deals on hit damage so again, just beats everything else along with blade king.

They just make it hard for riot make new items that fill niches and actual grant item diversity. Every build is literally the same now a days in this game with any attack speed class like Yi and AD carries that aren't crit due to this. Champions like Shyvana can build rage blade but she has no huge damage reduction/untargable moves so unless your playing in low elo you have to buy more tanky things.

Should just make rage blade the old AD/AP/attack speed each hit (maybe even scrap the attack speed and make it cheaper, I don't know) and up the armor/magic % to up to 25% to make hybrid damage really scale well.

I'm not a fan of just being "outplayed" by auto attack champions that deal so much damage that is hard to read on screen of "where the hell did that come from/what do I do against that".

Wit's End heals you for the full damage, not just a bit of life steal. Plus it works on TOP of your life steal. It's a good defensive item too with the raw MR.

boricCentaur11 votes

Rageblade is not even the most built attack speed item so how will getting rid it give other attack speed items more love?

Also look at the champions that build it if it was gone then it would just get replaced by a item they would of already built and probably not a attack speed item. If anything attack speed items will get built less due to the champions getting worst and there is less synergy between on hit items.

Like if you want other attack speed items to be built more you remove bork not rageblade.

Moonscourge1 votes

I'm glad they're taking this approach and that they're not compensating any of the champs that got it. Rageblade is often a second item and honestly some niche builds might really enjoy getting additional penetration early in the game.

Rebonack1 votes

Riot seriously just needs to remove Phantom Hit and balance Rageblade as the hybrid answer to Whisper/Voidstaff.

ForTheCode1 votes

Not a bad idea honestly. Though I think "On-Hit" should be a feature of Rageblade to some extent.

Rebonack1 votes

{quoted}

Not a bad idea honestly. Though I think "On-Hit" should be a feature of Rageblade to some extent.

I wouldn't mind something like 'your basic attacks deal magic damage based on your bonus AD and physical damage based on your AP OnHit'. But really, I think just a solid chunk of AD/AP, the ramping attack speed, and higher %pen would be plenty for an item.

We could use some more OnHit items and giving Phantom Hit the axe would allow them to be added without breaking the game.

Clever Phrase 1 votes

So - read everything so far. The answer, and the issue, seem much more straightforward to me. Let's start with the issue, which no one so far has addressed and Riot themselves stated. Champs like Jax or Vayne who have an on hit effect every 3 attacks had fantastic synergy, while champs like Kog Maw, Varus, or Teemo with built in on hit fx every attack got a uniform buff. The solution ? Not to shift the trigger to the 3rd attack which is obviously a massive nerf and why we are all here. It's also not to nerf the champions with 3rd AA synergy and revert the item as suggested in this thread. The solution is to have the item be a uniform on hit buffing item when it's stacked. Simply put, before if every other AA triggered on hits twice, this added some more effectiveness for users with on hit effects over 2 attacks, but doubled the effectiveness of users with 3rd AA triggers. We need something in between. " When stacked, on hit fx are perhaps 33% more effective. " In simple numbers, if your on hits gave 100 damage per AA, now they do 133, every AA. For a user who gets 300 on hit damage on their 3rd AA, they now get 399 damage, same as the standard user over 3 autos (133x3=399). I say effective instead of damage too because perhaps they make a champ who does CC on-hit or make Ashes slows on hit FX. The item would behave as a uniform on hit buffer, no more effective for 3rd hit users than every AA ones. It could be tuned independent of its effects on just some select champs. In a sense it would be like a Deathcap, but for on hit. I don't think the item should give Pen personally as that has nothing to do with on hits and is available elsewhere.

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