Why does Soraka's ult counter its own counter?

This Garen··2 votes·1,336 views

When I bring up Soraka's broken ult up in champ select (high plat-low diamond) that it removes all grievous wounds the most common reply I get is: "Really?" Like most people don't know. What is the counter to Soraka? Grievous Wounds. What does Soraka's ult remove? Grievous Wounds.

Remember when the summoner spell heal removed Grievous Wounds? And how quickly that got removed because it's an awful idea? Soraka's ult can still do it.

The most common argument I get in its defense is: "It's an ult, it should be powerful." And this is not a strong defense. If an ult should feel powerful because "It's an ult" here are a few examples of other things that should counter their own counter.

  • Malz's ult can no longer be QSS'ed. It's an ult.
  • Zed's ult will now allow him to ignore the effects of Zhonya's hourglass. It's an ult and should be treated as such.
  • Wind wall and Unbreakable will no longer block all projectile ults. They are ults and should justifiably feel powerful.
  • All active Steriod ults (Dominus/Fury of the Sands etc.) Will now be cast-able through all forms of crowd control (similar to Undying Rage)
  • Karthus' ult will now hit un-targetable enemies as Soraka's ult currently can.

Soraka's ult removing GW is a relic from a time when Executioner's calling was in the game, and more than 2 champions had GW in their kit. Soraka's heinous ult is global, counters it's own counter, hits untargetable allies, only serves to re-enforce the oh so fun teleport meta and has a cooldown shorter than Ignite's cooldown, and the ults on Shen and Karthus.

TL;DR: Soraka's ult counter's it's own counter. Isn't that backwards?

14 Comments

SoundChaosDebug4 votes

She's already punished for doing her job, healing allies.

This Garen1 votes

Yeah, but she can heal herself. So that's not really an issue. You could make an argument about starcall being a skillshot and difficult to land, but it's really not. It's costs are low, it's rewards are high since it scales off her missing health and placing her botlane can lead to her hitting multiple targets with it. Abilities costing hp aren't so uncommon at any rate.

SoundChaosDebug1 votes

She is taxed by health and mana though, to heal it costs health and mana and to land q it costs more mana to heal herself.

This Garen1 votes

I concede that this mechanic is well done and doesn't need to be changed. This makes her a strong laner, while making it difficult for her to heal herself in teamfights. But the issue I have is with her ult cleansing Grievous wounds from any location on the map no matter what. It makes it difficult to counter her one thing; which is to heal allies. Malzahar ult can be qss'ed item 3364 will reveal Rengar ult. Soraka's ult should have a counter, too.

Penguin Eclipse3 votes

Soraka's ult removing grievous wounds does not have anything to do with executioners calling. No one ever bought it when that was added to her ult.

Her ult heals. That is literally all it does besides remove grievous wounds, which can be easily reapplied with the new items in the preseason. And it's CD is horrendously long. All around probably her most balanced ability.

This Garen1 votes

I would buy calling on supports I played (taric/ali/leo) if the enemy had Mundo/Swain. It was a niche item that did its job, and it was always worth watching the Mundo back up after one auto since his ult was gimped. Also her ult

  • Heals all allies
  • Globally heals
  • Is the ONLY SPELL IN THE GAME that hits untargetable targets
  • Removes Greivous wounds before healing
  • Has a shorter cooldown than Ignite at all levels

Her ult heals. That is literally all it does besides remove grievous wounds, which can be easily reapplied with the new items in the preseason.

Saying that her ult only heals is a gross over-simplification. That's like me saying Zed's ult should ignore zhonyas because it "literally only does damage." Also bringing up the preseason (while a welcome sight that more GW items are being added) just dodges the issue that she's been this way for months and nothing's been done about it.

Penguin Eclipse1 votes

[{quoted}](name=This Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OX3jXeET,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2015-11-08T05:42:45.027+0000)

I would buy calling on supports I played (taric/ali/leo) if the enemy had Mundo/Swain. It was a niche item that did its job, and it was always worth watching the Mundo back up after one auto since his ult was gimped. Also her ult

  • Heals all allies
  • Globally heals
  • Is the ONLY SPELL IN THE GAME that hits untargetable targets
  • Removes Greivous wounds before healing
  • Has a shorter cooldown than Ignite at all levels

Saying that her ult only heals is a gross over-simplification. That's like me saying Zed's ult should ignore zhonyas because it "literally only does damage." Also bringing up the preseason (while a welcome sight that more GW items are being added) just dodges the issue that she's been this way for months and nothing's been done about it.

It actually misses untargetable targets quite often. Supposedly a bug but Riot never fixes it.

Comparing a damage ult to a healing ult is not apples to apples. And damage is not even close to all Zed's does.

This Garen1 votes

My point is that "healing" is also not even close to all that Soraka's ult does. And the cases where it misses are few and far between. I've never seen it miss. It heals Vlad's pool, it heals a Zhonya's target it heals Fizz during troll pole. The feeling of vindication I'd get from it missing would be forever stored in my heart.

Sukishoo1 votes

relic from a time when Executioner's calling was in the game,

It's coming back in the next patch.

This Garen1 votes

That's nice, but it's frustrating that she's been able to do this for so long.

Penguin Eclipse1 votes

[{quoted}](name=This Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OX3jXeET,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-11-08T05:37:08.569+0000)

That's nice, but it's frustrating that she's been able to do this for so long.

She hasn't really done it for that long.

This Garen2 votes

She hasn't really done it for that long.

It's been one year, one month, and 6 days.

Fiveofswords1 votes

ive noticed that many ults, especially ones with a long cooldown, tend to compesnate for intrinstic weakness in some champ. If heals are literally the only thing soraka really has (and yeah thats pretty much it...sure she has a sort of silence and very low dmg aoe but they are somewhat trifling) then it would be pretty lame if greivous wounds jsut counters soraka completely and makes her useless. That doesnt take much thought or strategy.

This Garen1 votes

I understand your point, but she also has an AE snare as well as a speed buff. I don't think Grievous Wounds are very easy to apply. Ignite is rarely taken in game and even when it is its cooldown is longer than her ult at any rank. Varus and Katarina are now the only two champions in the entire league that can apply it. item 3165 is the only item that has it, and it's useless on any non-mage champ as well as not built some of the mages in the game anyway! On top of that, applying the debuff at all with morellos currently only means Soraka has "go" button on her ult since it gets that nice 50% increase on targets below 40% max health. Ignite can only apply it to one target, isn't it enough for her to be able to globally heal everyone? It takes more thought and strategy for me to apply grievous wounds to an opposing carry and burst them than it is for Soraka to press "r."

To clarify I'm not against Soraka being able to cleanse Grievous wounds. I'm against her for being able to do it from anywhere at any time. Maybe if she had to be close to a target to cleanse it thus putting herself in danger it would feel like a strategic choice for the Soraka. Or if it removed Grievous wounds AFTER it healed so I would get something for using my summoner spell summoner 14 which has a longer cooldown no matter what.

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