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Please consider separating heal power and shield power.

Blupor··41 votes·13,791 views

Hi all,

There’s been a lot of discussion lately about heal and shield power getting nerfed, and now there are nerfs to several of those items on PBE. Full disclosure: I am a D5 Nami onetrick, so that’s my perspective.

I’m proposing that Riot consider separating the heal and shield amplifiers on enchanter itemization. For months we’ve been hearing about “heals and shields,” always mentioned together. I think it is fairly lazy to group the two together, because they’re very different. Healing is reactive after damage is taken; shielding is proactive and can be a deterrent to damage all on its own. I am not a fan of Janna/Lulu/Soraka styles of play, so I rarely play them, and I do agree more interactivity should be added to their kits. That’s the real problem, but Riot prefers to attack numbers, which is a less great, but OK alternative.

Right now, healing is countered by AD and AP itemization and Ignite. Healers are in a good spot, if not strong. Shielding, however, is countered by...reworked Irelia? And raw damage. Shielding also uses the target’s resistances, so it is more than just the shield you see. In my opinion, it’s far more problematic with less counterplay. If healing and shielding amplification were split up, the shielding problem could be directly addressed instead of dragging healing down with it. If shielding were nerfed, then healing could be tuned a bit lower to keep healers from entirely replacing those with shields in the bot lane. I know not everyone likes heals and/or shields, but since they are in the game, I don’t see a disadvantage to splitting them up and balancing them directly. Thanks for reading!

tl;dr: I don’t believe that the correct balance numbers for healing and shielding happen to be the same exact number on enchanter items. “Healing and shielding” are lazily brought up together when they are different problems with different solutions. Please split them up.

EDIT: I wasn't very clear in how I worded this: I'm proposing that the heal/shield amp stat be split into 2 passives on the same item, not moved to separate items. So a +10% heal/shield passive would become +10% heal power and +10% shield power as two passives on the item. Then the numbers could be tweaked separately to tune heals or shields as needed, separately. Hope this clarifies!

54 Comments

Kitten of Evil19 votes

Shields need their uptime WAY reduced.

Lulu's shield can be up 100% of the time. Janna's and Karma's can be up 5/6 of the time. Rakan's can be up 5/12 of the time but it can be used twice within 5 seconds and it stacks. And Lux's shield can be up 1/2 of the time, but it stacks and refreshes if she catches the ally on the way back.

They should all be reduced to short durations, like 2.5 seconds at the most, to ensure that they are used only in anticipation of damage rather than just throwing them on whenever.

Blupor5 votes

I 100% agree. Lulu has some other skill expression in her kit, but often she’s reduced to just permashielding to apply Ardent Censer...I didn’t even know it could be up 100% of the time, I was actually disgusted when I learned that this season.

I’m sure if shields get way nerfed, then healing would have to be scaled down a little bit to keep balance in champion viability, but I’m hoping that splitting up healing and shielding would make that easier to balance (especially in the future as items change and champs get reworked).

SpecterVonBaren3 votes

People make a lot of shit out of Lulu keeping the shield up 100% of the time with the maximum amount of CDR and enough mana to just keep spamming it but it's not like as soon as someone breaks it that she can immediately pop another on her carry, it's a good shield but late game damage can get real high and focus fire can blip that shield off in a second.

Know WHY she's a shield bot? Because hard engage supports became too good at their job and THIS THING item 3302 made her poke from auto attacks not stick and thus not be worth trying. Damage is too high and hard engage supports too good at their job for you to risk poking them with auto attacks.

Besteal7 votes

Well I mean for Lux it's actually ok. But only for the reason that it's a skillshot that you have to actually hit and is completely useless until 30 minutes.

YuGiHo5 votes

and your team actually tries to dodge it.

Daddy Ants2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitten of Evil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OEqXzTzZ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-01T03:03:03.733+0000)

Shields need their uptime WAY reduced.

Lulu's shield can be up 100% of the time. Janna's and Karma's can be up 5/6 of the time. Rakan's can be up 5/12 of the time but it can be used twice within 5 seconds and it stacks. And Lux's shield can be up 1/2 of the time, but it stacks and refreshes if she catches the ally on the way back.

They should all be reduced to short durations, like 2.5 seconds at the most, to ensure that they are used only in anticipation of damage rather than just throwing them on whenever.

I completely agree with you.

These specific enchanters just have way too high uptimes on their shields.

I calculated based on 40% CDR (No Cosmic Insight) because Bone Plating/Chrysalis is taken by almost every Support.

Janna

NO CDR + Max Rank Shield cooldown: 10 seconds 40% CDR + Max Rank Shield cooldown: 6 seconds Maximum Shield duration: 5 seconds

Approximately 85% potential uptime.

Lulu

NO CDR + Max Rank Shield cooldown: 10 seconds 40% CDR + Max Rank Shield cooldown: 6 seconds Maximum Shield duration: 6 seconds

100% potential uptime.

Karma

NO CDR + Max Rank Shield cooldown: 8 seconds 40% CDR + Max Rank Shield cooldown: 4.2 seconds Maximum Shield duration: 4 seconds

Approximately 98% potential uptime.

Rakan

NO CDR + Max Rank Shield cooldown: 12 seconds 40% CDR + Max Rank Shield cooldown: 7.2 seconds Maximum Shield duration: 3 seconds per shield BUT can be cast twice

Potential uptime of 80%

Sona's shield has less than a 50% potential uptime when she's cdr capped and has her ult maxed.

Her W is on a 3.6 second cooldown with 40% CDR and her R at rank 3 and the shield attached to it is 1.5 second duration.

JarodDempsey4 votes

Idk, i feel like people focusing on uptime dont really play shield supports much. Uptime isn't itself really important, whats important is low cooldowns so you can more often use the shield since in most cases except maybe jannas, the shield will be removed in 1-2 damage instances at the most which usually occur immediately after use occurs. Like yeah lowering durations will make it more difficult to use shields well but if you want to look at shielding effectiveness then you have to look at sps which is a product of strength and cooldown not duration and cooldown.

Sona shields are not a problem, theyre weak and short plus the range is short as well. Janna Lulu Karma all have insta cast pretty strong (really strong for janna) shields with ok to good range, their cd's should stay the same but durations should be lowered to 4,3.5,3 seconds respectively, definitely not less than 3 in any case though. Rakan 's shield durations are alright but since he can so quickly recast, the strength of his second shield should be halved on at least the initial target of that skill.

Kitten of Evil6 votes

I'd agree with this, to an extent. Sure, the theoretical uptime isn't the most important thing, but it is a factor.

The problem with shields currently is that 3-5 seconds is too forgiving. You don't have to anticipate anything, you can just throw it on your carry when they get near an enemy (or vice versa). The amount of skill expression on a long-duration, point-and-click shield is minimal.

Keshaun3 votes

{quoted}

Idk, i feel like people focusing on uptime dont really play shield supports much. Uptime isn't itself really important, whats important is low cooldowns so you can more often use the shield since in most cases except maybe jannas, the shield will be removed in 1-2 damage instances at the most which usually occur immediately after use occurs. Like yeah lowering durations will make it more difficult to use shields well but if you want to look at shielding effectiveness then you have to look at sps which is a product of strength and cooldown not duration and cooldown.

Sona shields are not a problem, theyre weak and short plus the range is short as well. Janna Lulu Karma all have insta cast pretty strong (really strong for janna) shields with ok to good range, their cd's should stay the same but durations should be lowered to 4,3.5,3 seconds respectively, definitely not less than 3 in any case though. Rakan 's shield durations are alright but since he can so quickly recast, the strength of his second shield should be halved on at least the initial target of that skill.

When I think of shields right, I think of a knight defending himself with his shield to stay alive. The knight isn't going to walk around in a defense stance because then he can't fight back and will get flanked. What I'm trying to compare here is in league, an enchanter should have to anticipate when to use their shields to efficiently block incoming damage rather than spam cast shields due to support items having CDR / mana regen and the duration of the shields is around 3-5 seconds. If you anticipated wrong, you should be punished severely resulting in your teammate taking a chunk of damage or potentially dying. In league today though, if you anticipate wrong, you just cast another shield and all is well.

JarodDempsey2 votes

Most damage shields in league arent very strong. I agree that it would be alright if durations would be lowered as i said in my initial post but cooldowns definitely shouldnt be lengthened since shield strengths arent anywhere near high enough to guarantee a save from death with just 1 shield in most cases. Since the shields absorb about 1 hit of damage then their cooldowns should be similar to a regularly damaging spell which is currently the case. If an enchanter mistimes the shield then they fail to block the damage hit, in many cases this shouldnt equate to death similarly to a mage missing 1 primary spell shouldnt equate to them losing a fight (which it usually doesnt).

tldr shields are fine, durations could be lowered a bit but everything else is fine

The23rdGamer1 votes

{quoted}

I completely agree with you.

These specific enchanters just have way too high uptimes on their shields.

I calculated based on 40% CDR (No Cosmic Insight) because Bone Plating/Chrysalis is taken by almost every Support.

Janna

NO CDR + Max Rank Shield cooldown: 10 seconds 40% CDR + Max Rank Shield cooldown: 6 seconds Maximum Shield duration: 5 seconds

Approximately 85% potential uptime.

Lulu

NO CDR + Max Rank Shield cooldown: 10 seconds 40% CDR + Max Rank Shield cooldown: 6 seconds Maximum Shield duration: 6 seconds

100% potential uptime.

Karma

NO CDR + Max Rank Shield cooldown: 8 seconds 40% CDR + Max Rank Shield cooldown: 4.2 seconds Maximum Shield duration: 4 seconds

Approximately 98% potential uptime.

Rakan

NO CDR + Max Rank Shield cooldown: 12 seconds 40% CDR + Max Rank Shield cooldown: 7.2 seconds Maximum Shield duration: 3 seconds per shield BUT can be cast twice

Potential uptime of 80%

Sona's shield has less than a 50% potential uptime when she's cdr capped and has her ult maxed.

Her W is on a 3.6 second cooldown with 40% CDR and her R at rank 3 and the shield attached to it is 1.5 second duration.

As a Sona main that is something that scares me. It feels like Sona is in a fairly decent place right now compared to some of the more oppressive shield casters like Janna probably a tad bit of personal bias in that but I still feel it's true nonetheless. I'm a little afraid that Sona is going to feel kinda bad again because she's lumped with the healers and shield casters despite her heals which are pretty much nonexistent for quite awhile anyways and shields being used differently than most of the others. She likes to apply shields to the whole team (hence her aura based skills and generally lategame based scaling) whereas most of the others are based on shielding and healing one person in particular, most commonly the ADC. I suppose time will tell what happens, because I do agree that some change does need to come to the more oppressive shields. [sona-playing]

Daddy Ants1 votes

{quoted}

As a Sona main that is something that scares me. It feels like Sona is in a fairly decent place right now compared to some of the more oppressive shield casters like Janna probably a tad bit of personal bias in that but I still feel it's true nonetheless. I'm a little afraid that Sona is going to feel kinda bad again because she's lumped with the healers and shield casters despite her heals which are pretty much nonexistent for quite awhile anyways and shields being used differently than most of the others. She likes to apply shields to the whole team (hence her aura based skills and generally lategame based scaling) whereas most of the others are based on shielding and healing one person in particular, most commonly the ADC. I suppose time will tell what happens, because I do agree that some change does need to come to the more oppressive shields. [sona-playing]

Meddler mentioned they are going to test some shields having a 2.5 second duration.

Janna Karma Lulu were the 3 he mentioned.

Νami1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitten of Evil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OEqXzTzZ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-01T03:03:03.733+0000)

Shields need their uptime WAY reduced.

Lulu's shield can be up 100% of the time. Janna's and Karma's can be up 5/6 of the time. Rakan's can be up 5/12 of the time but it can be used twice within 5 seconds and it stacks. And Lux's shield can be up 1/2 of the time, but it stacks and refreshes if she catches the ally on the way back.

They should all be reduced to short durations, like 2.5 seconds at the most, to ensure that they are used only in anticipation of damage rather than just throwing them on whenever.

Unless they changed Rakan this last patch, pretty sure his shield only refreshes and doesn't stack on recast.

Daddy Ants3 votes

{quoted}

Unless they changed Rakan this last patch, pretty sure his shield only refreshes and doesn't stack on recast.

He has like a 5 second window to use the second cast,

So he has the capability to shield for 6 seconds.

Νami1 votes

{quoted}

He has like a 5 second window to use the second cast,

So he has the capability to shield for 6 seconds.

That doesn't change anything I said.

Edit: See my response to some other dude:

{quoted}

When the guy comments about Lux's shield stacking (which it does since if it hits the target twice they get a greater shield than just being hit once) and then says Rakan's shield also stacks (a shield that can be used on the same target twice) when it does not grant double the shield value, it only refreshes the duration and the shield's value back to the tooltip stats.

You can test and dispute that in practise tool, but that was my original point. Just because you can effectively get double the shielding on one person (providing the shield expires or takes damage) doesn't mean the shield stacks, it still only refreshes/renews.

There is a difference between the definitions of stacking and refreshing, I thought it would be obvious what I was alluding to.

Yets42401 votes

It just shows that you're missing what the comment you initially replied to was saying.

Νami1 votes

{quoted}

It just shows that you're missing what the comment you initially replied to was saying.

When the guy comments about Lux's shield stacking (which it does since if it hits the target twice they get a greater shield than just being hit once) and then says Rakan's shield also stacks (a shield that can be used on the same target twice) when it does not grant double the shield value, it only refreshes the duration and the shield's value back to the tooltip stats.

You can test and dispute that in practise tool, but that was my original point. Just because you can effectively get double the shielding on one person (providing the shield expires or takes damage) doesn't mean the shield stacks, it still only refreshes/renews.

There is a difference between the definitions of stacking and refreshing, I thought it would be obvious what I was alluding to.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kitten of Evil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OEqXzTzZ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-01T03:03:03.733+0000)

Shields need their uptime WAY reduced.

Lulu's shield can be up 100% of the time.

Lulu's shield is only up 100% of the time if the person she is shielding is taking no damage. So really it doesn't mean anything. Doing that is generally just a waste of mana.

NorthernRedStar8 votes

Reduce the overall damage in the game first.

Zeromatsu7 votes

Nami is actually one of those obnoxious sustain supports no idea how you can talk like that about janna/lulu/soraka when Nami is way worse.

Sustain supports just need to be nerfed in general, cause they simply don't allow trades. It's all about farming and hard engage if jungler comes...

I don't mind if shields, heals or both gets worked on, but something should change.

Νami5 votes

{quoted}

Nami is actually one of those obnoxious sustain supports no idea how you can talk like that about janna/lulu/soraka when Nami is way worse.

Sustain supports just need to be nerfed in general, cause they simply don't allow trades. It's all about farming and hard engage if jungler comes...

I don't mind if shields, heals or both gets worked on, but something should change.

Nami's mana sustain is actually garbage. Her W heal is one of the most expensive skills in the game and you can really punish her if she has to use it a lot.

Not only that, but Nami is extremely squishy, one good engage and you'll have killed her.

saltran6 votes

Nami is the strongest supp on SoloQ right now but she doesn't shield so ppl don't complain about her xD

ChaddyFantome2 votes

{quoted}

Nami is the strongest supp on SoloQ right now but she doesn't shield so ppl don't complain about her xD

Been saying this since day one.

Blupor1 votes

Sources on strongest support? There's more to it than winrate, and she's not the highest on several sites I checked this patch. And people don't complain about Nami because you have to have a brain to play her. Telegraphed Q rewards movement prediction or you miss against any decent player, need to bounce 130 mana W to make it mana-efficient, E needs to go to the right person and they need to know to use it, molasses-speed ult requires foresight to engage or you can disengage. Passive can be used creatively on teammates. If you mess those up, the downside is that you are literally just a flish flopping around doing nothing for your team. Other enchanters have higher lows than that.

Blupor1 votes

Yes, Nami gets the better of trades in lane. That is literally her job. If you see a Nami sitting back and not trading, enjoy your win because she's sacrificing her strong early game for nothing and probably meant to lock in Janna. Hard engage counters sustain, which counters poke, which counters hard engage. This is how bot lane works. If you take away enchanters' ability to trade, then you're asking for a playstyle where they sit back and play passive (this makes the problem worse). Unless you'd like them to be squishy, do no damage, and not outsustain trades. What exactly do they do then, compared to tanks who can survive, do damage, and heal with relic shield?

Zeromatsu1 votes

Except that Nami has it all. Poke damage, sustain, disengage on every ability and hard engage on the ult. Sure she needs some skill to hit the bubble, but she isn't that hard to play. 2 of her abilitys are point-and-click and her ult has the width of a lane ... Her Winrate shows that she is too strong.

It just sucks to play against her. Same as playing against Janna or Lulu. You have to wait for a huge mistake by the enemy to punish them, cause trading isn't possible and she probably poked you to half hp anyway.

High mana costs are no excuse. I rarely get oom with Nami, cause first of all: Her mana costs in the early lvls are ok. And second: You don't have to spam. I rarely get oom when playing nami and even if I do, you can just backport and come back with mana reg items. Which is like half of the support items.

And you have to put the mana costs in relation to the effect. Namis heal is huge and it deals dmg on top of it... If you play it right you can even let it bounce twice.

But well, I guess this thread isn't about Nami. So we should stop discussing this :) Everyone has his own opinion.

ModKnightsKemplar5 votes

And again, I am in the enviable position of coming to a thread to try to disagree and being completely persuaded. You make good points, and you changed my mind.

Let's separate those bad boys so they don't ruin Taric with these changes :P

Blupor1 votes

Thanks :) Yeah, really all I want is for balance to be easier in the future, so I think splitting the passives up on the item would help. And for someone like Taric who uses both, it might let you sort of "spec" into a more heal or shield-focused build if some items had more healing than shielding, or vice-versa!

ModKnightsKemplar1 votes

Yeah, it's an interesting lever. I do understand why they would be hesitant to add something like that; an easier answer might be to just buff the heals of support healers; I could be okay with that, too.

Either way, I don't see compensation buffs on PBE, so healers will likely be power down for a bit until they do something about it. Kinda sucks, but it is what it is.

Ragnaveil3 votes

This could solve some issues, but hopefully a Rioter sees this and is able to elaborate if they ever thought about doing something like this.

The Great Duck3 votes

If anything, shields are in a much stronger position. 1) Aren't countered by ignite or grievous wounds 2) easier/faster cast time 3) lower cooldown. I'd rather have a Luiu or Janna spamming shield on me every 6 seconds.

PokladnicaZla3 votes

For starters they should adjust shield CD and duration, then take it from there.

  • There have been stated to be cost adjustments to item 3114

Dividing H&Sp is an interesting approach,but that also require a few new items to be added and reworking old ones. Tho,I'm not a fan of that idea. It's like the new mana items, supports are just gonna buy the best healing or shielding item. Honestly,it would be a good idea on some items,but on some yeah. That would be good, but not generally. It could also lead to binary playstyles, healers going Healing Power than going item 3174 and item 3107 and shielders going Shielding power and item 3190 . Healers wouldnt benefit from shield from Locket,but on shielders*; it could be too strong, vice versa for shielding.

Same logic should be applied to attack damage to AAs only empower AAs and not abilities. Depends on what RIOT's take on this is.

Blupor1 votes

I actually meant split up the text on the items. So like "+10% Shield and Heal Power" could be split into separate passives "+10% Heal Power" and "+10% Shield Power" on the same item. Then the numbers for each could be tweaked toward balance for each of them. You might end up with 6% Shield Power and 8% Heal Power on the item, for example. The way you interpreted it is interesting too actually; I agree they'd need more item options if they did it that way.

Done253 votes

Not all shields serve the same role. Some are for negating damage (Lux barrier, Rakan shield dash) while others provide buffs for their duration (Morgana+Janna shields.)

The former should be high power short duration/CD to promote blocking damage, but the others should have longer duration/CD to promote good buff placement.

YuGiHo2 votes

u know how many new items the would have to make to do this?

JarodDempsey2 votes

Shields should be stronger than heals because theyre significantly less permanent than regenerated health and they also require prediction. Shields are in a good place right now. I can sympathize with you about not wanting to let heals get fucked but I'm not a fan of throwing shields any further under the bus than riot already has. If people think they need tweaking then just make them be effected by grevious wounds, problem solved.

Anyone who thinks shields are a problem should also think heals are a problem because they accomplish the same thing albeit in different ways, imo neither are a problem in the least atm except maybe that overheal effect.

UpDownLeftRightAB2 votes

{quoted}

Shields should be stronger than heals because theyre significantly less permanent than regenerated health and they also require prediction. Shields are in a good place right now. I can sympathize with you about not wanting to let heals get fucked but I'm not a fan of throwing shields any further under the bus than riot already has. If people think they need tweaking then just make them be effected by grevious wounds, problem solved.

Anyone who thinks shields are a problem should also think heals are a problem because they accomplish the same thing albeit in different ways, imo neither are a problem in the least atm except maybe that overheal effect.

Hmm. I have a slightly different viewpoint if you'll consider it that does draw a distinct line between them.

Heals are reactive while shields are proactive. One requires damage to be taken while the other can prevent the damage from being taken. A shielder can prevent a one shot, a healer can't.

I am not talking specifically about league's healing, it's gotten a bit muddy and weird in this game with Aery and Overheal and Grail.

Daddy Ants1 votes

I don't think hitting the Heal and Shield power numbers on Enchanter Items is going to be enough.

Rakan, Lulu, Janna and Karma need direct changes to their shielding spells.

{quoted}

Nami is actually one of those obnoxious sustain supports no idea how you can talk like that about janna/lulu/soraka when Nami is way worse.

Sustain supports just need to be nerfed in general, cause they simply don't allow trades. It's all about farming and hard engage if jungler comes...

I don't mind if shields, heals or both gets worked on, but something should change.

Nami has the most expensive sustain spell out of all the enchanters.

Sona's heal is 100 mana at maximum rank.

Soraka's is like 70.

Nami's is 130.

The main issue I have with Nami's W is that it's both a heal and a damage ability.

Same for Lulu's E being both a shield and a nuke on the enemy.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

I don't think hitting the Heal and Shield power numbers on Enchanter Items is going to be enough.

Rakan, Lulu, Janna and Karma need direct changes to their shielding spells.

Nami has the most expensive sustain spell out of all the enchanters.

Sona's heal is 100 mana at maximum rank.

Soraka's is like 70.

Nami's is 130.

The main issue I have with Nami's W is that it's both a heal and a damage ability.

Same for Lulu's E being both a shield and a nuke on the enemy.

At least Lulu has to choose between one and the other. Nami's W is basically a free trade every time she uses it.

Blupor1 votes

In theory, yeah, but in lane it's either you stepping up to bounce it off yourself (better know where the jungler is), or your ADC backing off as you heal so it doesn't bounce. Definitely not guaranteed or without risk to get the most out of it.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

In theory, yeah, but in lane it's either you stepping up to bounce it off yourself (better know where the jungler is), or your ADC backing off as you heal so it doesn't bounce. Definitely not guaranteed or without risk to get the most out of it.

U never have to choose between the two tho. you simply have the opportunity to get both as well as even more off one or the other.

Blupor1 votes

130 mana W at level 9, and a relatively high cost for all ranks leading up to that, says that it’s not balanced around one or the other. If you don’t get at least one bounce out of every W, you’re getting an inefficient effect for the cost. It is not without risk to get a bounce every time. Getting both is not a bonus benefit, it’s balanced around you doing it (bouncing twice is more of a bonus that rewards good positioning/communication). She’s a jack of all trades, master of none. This is what she does. Anyway this thread is about heals/shields, not Nami.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

Shielding also uses the target’s resistances

So does healing....

In my opinion, it’s far more problematic with less counterplay.

Gonna have to disagree. Shielding has the counterplay of being useless unless used correctly. In essence and theory a shield that isn't properly timed doesn't accomplish anything, can be ignored and is thus wasted. A Heal on the other hand is the act of removing damage all together and is therefore always useful and effective. The only time it isn't is when your team is full health and therefore already winning.

This is why things like Grievous wounds exist because one must invest into actively stopping regen.

Whether or not Shields are too strong right now and or stronger than heals currently or not (because that is a different discussion, in of themselves Shields have far more innate counterplay than heals, because the only innate answer to heals is killing the target faster than they can can heal.

One thing we agree on tho is that healing and Shielding are different. This is true. However I do not believe that separating the Heal/Shield Stat by itself is really necessary.
One problem with separating the two is you splinter off certain champions scaling too much.

Janna for example would have to buy both heal and shield power because she has her E and her Ultimate. Sona would be screwed because her W does both. Every champion that uses Summon aery would get less mileage out of it as well if they are a Healer and not a shielder, like Soraka or Nami.

The reason this is a problem is because champions like Lux and Orianna still get SOME scaling on their Shields from building AP, even tho it isn't as much as if they build Heal/Shield Power.

All they would really need to do is just assign scaling values on individual spells like any other stat. This way they can balance the scaling on each individual Heal and Shield without having to worry about gutting one or the other too much.

Blupor1 votes

I meant separate the stats on the same item, just into two passives so the shield and heal numbers could be different (if needed). I guess agree to disagree on shielding; far too often I see Jannas or Lulus applying the shield with no danger just to apply ardent or discourage aggression during turret sieges, etc. Ideally they're well-timed and reactive, not so much in those situations. Also, can you explain what you mean by healing being affected by the target's resistances? I don't think it works that way, but I could be wrong.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

Also, can you explain what you mean by healing being affected by the target's resistances? I don't think it works that way, but I could be wrong.

You are literally giving your target their HP back when you heal them. Ofc that HP is affected by their resistances. Why would you believe it not to be?

Blupor1 votes

I think you’re being imprecise with your example here. A target’s resistances are irrelevant in determining the strength of a heal. It sounds like you’re talking about damage that comes after that, which is checked against resistances. Heals are not themselves amplified or dampened by resistances, only by effects like Grievous Wounds, Spirit Visage, or Heal/Shield power which is the topic of this thread.

5050BS1 votes

We need some items that pierce shields

Athenes Lulu1 votes

Or first things first, give "heal and shield power" a separate name.

Then we can make it a new scaling stat alongside with AP/AD.

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votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes