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Discussion on the Sylas changes

The Stripy Bag·12/14/2019, 3:39:53 AM·9 votes·2,662 views

So yeah he's got some changes on the PBE. Wanted to start a civil discussion about him as I do play him quite a bit lately.

Here's the Riot response from Scruffy. Sylas Mechanics Changes We have some Sylas work coming to PBE for patch 10.1. The core goal here is to shift his mechanics in a way that open up some weaknesses for him in very high level play while making him a viable champ for the majority of players (it’s a buff overall). We’re combining a set of strategies that we think will lead to this outcome:

Less lane control, but significantly stronger late - having a safe, strong lane leads to being a strong option in all possible matchups. To counterbalance we’re buffing his late game across multiple axes (damage, tankiness, cooldowns) Mid viability over jungle - Juggling multiple roles lead to an additional strength as a flex pick. We think we can get him to a healthier spot for mid lane if we don’t allow him to be a strong flex pick in jungle Remove tools - E shield. Having a tool for every situation is something that can lead to this problem so we are going to remove the shield on E and give back the power in other places on the kit. Lowering skill floor on passive and W - We want to soften a few of the optimizations that many players are struggling to access without pulling out the decisions and skills of experienced players entirely.

Here is his current PBE numbers via Surrender at 20

Base HP lowered from 585 to 525 HP Per Level increased from 95 to 115 Base Armor lowered from 32 to 27 Armor Per Level increased from 3 to 4 MR lowered from 39 to 32 MR per level increased from 1.25 to 1.75 Petricite Burst (Passive) Max charges increased from 2 to 3 AOE range lowered from 400 to 300

Chain Lash (Q) base damage changed from [45/70/95/120/145 (+60% AP)] to [60/70/80/90/100 (+40%AP)] secondary damage changed from 45/70/95/120/145 to 40/85/130/175/220 Slow changed from 15/20/25/30/35% to 25% at all ranks Slow duration lowered from 2s to 1.5s Cooldown increased from 9/8/7/6/5 to 10/9/8/7/6

Kingslayer (W) Cooldown changed from 14/13.5/13/12.5/12 to 14/12.5/11/9.5/8 Mana increased from 45/45/50/55/60 to80/90/100/110/120 Damage increased from [65/100/135/170/205 (+65% AP)] to [65/115/165/215/265 (+85% AP)] [Removed] Damage amp when enemy below 40% health Base healing changed from [70/90/110/130/150 (+50% AP)] to [30/60/90/120/150 (+60% AP)] Healing amp at >40% health lowered from 75% to 50% [meaning max heal is double base healing] [Changed] heal always goes off, no longer need to hit a champion to heal

Abscond / Abduct (E) Cooldown changed from 14 at all ranks to 14/13/12/11/10 [Removed] no longer grants a shield Damage increased from [70/85/100/115/130 (+20% AP)] to [80/130/180/230/280 (+100% AP)]

So yeah these are the changes and Riot's context for them?

18 Comments

AS I LAY FEEDING12/14/2019, 4:09:42 AM6 votes

Its a nerf.** E2-Q has been removed, his AA resets have been removed**. The dedicated Sylas players dosent like these changes at all. He will become more clunky and the most importantly LESS FUN.

These changes is like removing "mechanics" from riven, Riven speeding up Qs and cancel shit is very unhealthy if you ask me but it never happens to riven, but Sylas.

His early game is weak, his wave clear is weak. These changes gives him worse early game exchange for better late game, when late game is irrelevant in modern league. The guy who decided these changes dosent play sylas or the game. If these changes goes through i am most likely done with the champ and maybe league. The sylasmains reddit is on a dumpster fire.

Also you know riot is clueless when they design a MEGA generalist champ for only one lane. While Ekko is allowed dominating the game in multiple roles. me personally i play him top, for example. But the majority likes him in the jungel.

boricCentaur112/14/2019, 4:05:16 AM5 votes

Fucking horrible. I will write fucking essay about why mid sylas is bad for the game and anyone that thinks different is wrong and he should be balanced around jg and nothing else.

The main complaint I have seen about sylas is his healing in lane since he lets him trade very well while still doing damage this doesn't solve that having in jg would since then you only need to deal with that in team fights where it's lot less of a problem.

Also he is suppose to be a bruiser and these changes seen to make him more of a assassin like e now doing [80/130/180/230/280 (+100% AP)] that's bs like it's not hard to hit and a cc. Like that will hurt omg like you combo this will his passive and omg that's lot of damage.

Like it just seems he does way more damage and I think more healing late but less early on.

That isn't a bruiser.

Like people don't like bruisers in mid.

I play sylas jg and I think he is dead to me like jg sylas is a much more interesting and fair champion you can keep what makes him a bruiser since he isn't going to be trading and his ult leads to much very creative ganks.

In my opinion riot should of just killed his laning and made a jg. Like come riot wtf there is already not a lot of ap jgs and now you're taking one out like really.

The Stripy Bag12/14/2019, 3:45:34 AM3 votes

Personally it's just a giant damage buff and he does have better scaling stats but this he's just apart of an over arching issue with AP items. In the sense that AP items are far more linear and lacking in variety compared to AD items. Not to mention I said a bit back when he was announce that mimic style characters in general are more difficult to balance in games as you have to find a balance of their personal power being good enough but not enough that the mimic abilities are outshined.

But yeah those are my thoughts. If anyone had a different suggestion (Not including just removing him from the game as a whole) do feel free to comment them. Also fuck you voting bot if you stop by here.

RISE Shlack12312/14/2019, 3:47:19 AM2 votes

I think it's healthy. I wish Riot would stick with the mentality of not allowing champions to have tools for every situation and actually stick to it across the board.

WoonStruck12/14/2019, 4:36:42 AM1 votes

I don't think giving sylas the highest base health in the game by a significant amount is going to be a good thing. Lol.

And he has some of the highest base damage and ap ratios in the game now.

This is going to do nothing but get him gutted...again. lol

I'm happy. Seeing Sylas get nerfs always makes my day, and he's going to be getting a lot of them after this.

5050BS12/14/2019, 4:40:36 AM1 votes

Well his W is bugged currently on the PBE (only heals off champions)

I think the changes are ok.

His Passive needs to not lose all stacks if not used in time.

Jacadi12/14/2019, 10:01:16 AM1 votes

So they are doing the inverse process to what they did to diana transforming him from a mage bruiser to an assassin?

Salivas12/14/2019, 10:01:34 PM1 votes

I play mid sylas, personally he is nothing right now, but his playstyle is still super fun, these changes make him no longer a bruiser or a combo character, his current playstyle feels similar to riven in auto canceling and more of a sustained fighter with spikes of damage from abilties, these changes take out the auto cancels and fighting. I dont care if they remove an e shield i dont care if they reduce the radius of his passive, just keep autoweaving in his combos and not become ability focused (as he is with this current changes) w and e no longer working as auto resets proves this.

Dr Dog12/14/2019, 10:51:27 PM1 votes

unless they buff his non existant passive hes gonna be a shit tier champion, period, all they needed to do was take scaling off of his ult so hes not using cc oriented ults and one shotting with them(a main issue with him higher up alone with his healing) and nerf his w healing a bit, then take that power he lost and shove it right back into his passive so hes a duelist/bruiser and not an off assassin kass wannabe lump of dogshit

Jungliñg1/9/2020, 5:21:36 PM1 votes

Riot has no idea what they are doing with this champion, just revert him to what he was on release and remove his W healing and tone down the E shield but dont make it a magic shield. Thats literally it.

WTBeGirl100EUhr12/14/2019, 3:51:04 AM1 votes

Base stats per level gained aren't linear. You get more as you level averaging to the X/lvl amount. It means that these base stat changes probably only affect him for level 1-5 and from then on his base stats are better or similar? Obviously going to hurt a lot in the first few levels he is going to feel very squishy. The armor nerf is probably the main way in which Riot is attempting to keep him out of the jungle.

In terms of the passive, when you E>EQ you would waste 1 stack of your passive. You might have trouble actually using the extra stack. Also lots of situations with R where you currently overcap so the extra charge is a welcome buff. In terms of the AoE reduction... eh. It does so little damage to minions now and getting multiple hits with passive was so rarely your primary objective that I think it's ok.

Q changes I am not really a fan of. Nerfing Q1 but buffing Q2 makes him much more reliant on landing the second hit. This means that the E>EQ pattern is really, really important and any other more "freeform" combos are weaker. CD increase is probably fine.

W changes... are interesting. More damage in general but less damage against low HP enemies. Way higher mana cost but you can now W a minion to heal. Feels like you'd run out of mana too quickly using it on minions for this to be that worth it, particularly with how reliant you will be on using Q on the wave to ever leave your turret. The extra heal is cool. Healing on jungle camps probably means that his jungle clear is rescued though which feels against the stated goals. Will test when I have more free time.

Rest in peace E shield, hello an extra 150+80% AP damage on E. Obviously this is a huge amount of extra burst if you land E at the cost of a huge amount of survivability. Will be sad to see the E shield go but can understand the reason for it.

Feels like late game is still going to suck because you won't have the defensive tools to do anything and I can't help but feel like tanky builds are still not going to work that well.

BlackXIV12/14/2019, 3:57:42 AM1 votes

lol, he was already a trash tier jungler in late S9 and out of the role in preseason.

The Stripy Bag12/14/2019, 4:24:43 AM1 votes

I would like to remind everyone to keep the thread civil (Presumably clean),not to just suggest he be removed entirely,but that this is a place for you all to express your opinions. I am not a Rioter so I don't see why this thread is being down voted when I'm just quoting the changes Riot has given so far and their logic (Whatever it may be) behind them. I have no influence on these decisions and wanted to make a spot for people (Mostly those who play him) to discuss these changes.