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What Karma Needs

SilverSquid·6/30/2018, 3:38:11 AM·44 votes·14,558 views

TL;DR at the bottom!!!

I've been playing Karma since season 2, seen her highs and lows. But as most of you know, her current state is truely pityful. So much so that a low-scale rework has been announced for the near future.

I took this opportunity to reflect upon Karma's problems, deeply and honestly. Sure, she has a lot of problems. A split fanbase, missing animations (shielding/hasting), she is the only champion without a unique dance and her lore is a mess. But those are things that are not going to be adressed in a "LeBlanc/Rengar sized" rework.

Other problems are her game progression (poke-monster into shield-bot) her itemization (she needs all the stats) and some ability interactions. Lacking depth. Direction. In the end, I have nailed down 5 specific problems, that I think a small-scale rework could fix:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-NwSFqUwAQfn5p.jpg:large

1) Poke Spam

Karma's whole damage lies in her W tether + RQ hadouken. But having all of a mage's damage in 2 sources is reeeaaaallly unhealthy. Because either the single spells deal WAY too much damage in comparison, or the full combo just doesn't do enough. Since the balance team did their job, she just slightly suffers from both.

But, this also means, that a majority of her damage can be applied from safety with RQ. Committing is not rewarded enough, so itemizing her as a glass cannon and spamming RQ makes too much sense. However, RQ is notoriously unreliable and gets stuck on minions and frontliners. As a result, she becomes a very oppressive poker, but an unreliable AP carry.

SOLUTION

RQ needs to be ground targeted (think Lux E). This leaves poking a viable strategy, but less oppressive at range and more reliable close up and in teamfights.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQcYn1UVhiaL5jMT7kwluJfUx0so_eSuuA49f4aanctttOTZ2twIA

2) Karma Never Dies

We have all seen tank Karma and how BS she can be. That's for a simple reason: Her heal is 2x 20%missing hp. That's a TANK scaling. On mage/support! OF COURSE it underperforms on her normal builds and is completely broken on tank builds...

Also, why does W even have a casting time of ~0.5s? You already have to press two buttons and have a target, which delays the "emergency heal". Sometimes you even die in those 0.5s, leaving both abilities on cooldown and you feeling cheated. I think emergency spells should be more responsive than that.

Also, could we please agree that the bonus root is ass? Seriously, Karma doesn't use it, it clogs her power budget, and if it ever does go off it doesn't feel good enough, to warrant having someone standing around for 3.25s (I think 3.0s+ CC is toxic anyways).

SOLUTION

Replace the missing%health heal with a flat heal that scales hard with low hp (like x3 or x4, so it's not good at above 50% health) Remove the castingtime, W is already unreliable enough as it is. Also, remove the bonus root and reintroduce the bonus damage. This spreads her damage more evenly through her kit as well!

https://lolvadi.com/upload/623b2b56a.jpeg

3) Is Karma an Enchanter?

Once you think about it, it's weird, that Karma is played mostly as a support, but only has ONE enchanter spell? It's literally just her E's shield/ms. As an enchanter she just feels underwhelming.

Sure, these days we have Brand and Zyra as one of the more potent "supports" out there, so her RQ spam lets her keep up, and W is kind of magey enough to dip into the "damage and CC" era, that we live in, but it's still a bit... unsatisfactory. Especially since her damage falls off and a delayed, unreliable root is really not why you pick a support.

SOLUTION

Let W target allies and grant resistances for the duration. Also make RW share the emergency heal. Boom, instantly more decision making, depth and small combo potential.

https://news-a.akamaihd.net/public/images/articles/2014/september_2014/ootlk/img/olk-ss_thumb.jpg

4) Is This a Healthy Shieldbomb?

Mantra'd E "shieldbomb" used to deal damage. From her release in Season 1 until it was removed in an update (not the rework) in season 5. Why? We don't know. It was her most iconic spell, but it was gutted for no apparant reason. And then brought back on Ivern some time later. Unfortunately, the new RE doesn't interact with her passive anymore and also causes the problem with having all her damage in W-RQ.

Before this change you used to be able to "miss" the spell. Since it shielded, damaged and sped up, you wanted to hit EVERYONE. Allies and Enemies. Realistically you could only ever hit 2-4 people, so you always had to choose and aim carefully. This made the spell interesting. This let you show mastery. This made the spell possible to fail. Also back then you could use minions to aim that spell. Which gave it a bit of more depth. I miss that.

The current version is just... Locket+Shurelyas. And that's concerning. No champion should ever need to compete in its general usefulness with 2 items. And this hadn't been the case when she still had shieldbomb.

SOLUTION

I pledge to reintroduce shieldbomb. Let it deal damage again. Even if it gets an "explosion delay" or the explosion can be dodged, I don't care. This used to be a healthier spell.

https://images8.alphacoders.com/587/thumb-350-587015.png

5) Passive and Flavour

Generally it's just a boring and unimaginative passive, but it does its job. The only issue is, that it rewards good Qs, but not good Es. So one fellow Karmaplayer suggested that shielded/tethered allies should be able to proc the passive at half effectiveness. I don't think Karma "needs" this, but it's worth a thought.

Summing Up

I hope I could paint a good picture of Karma's current gameplay problems, and how I would go about fixing them. Agree? Disagree? Have a better idea? Please let me know, I'd love to have you, before Riot gets to actually work on her within the next few patches. And maybe, who knows, maybe we can inspire them a bit.

Let's have this discussion!

TL;DR

_ 1) RQ should be ground targeted (think Lux E)

  1. W&RW should be able to target allies (resistance buff&heal)
  2. RW should be a FLAT heal, scaling with low hp
  3. RW should lose the bonus root in favour of reintroducing bonus damage
  4. RE should be a shieldbomb again Bonus) Passive could trigger from shielded/tethered allies (half effective)?_

71 Comments

Succubús GF6/30/2018, 6:10:27 AM6 votes

Have you met Zoe ??? LMFAO but anyways i agree

But having all of a mage's damage in 2 sources is reeeaaaallly unhealthy.

jocomotion6/30/2018, 1:33:49 PM5 votes

Me: hey, bud guess what the longest CC in league is. Friend: oh that’s easy it’d be Morgana Q (3 seconds) Me: nope Friend: what? Me: Karma RW with both spells maxed (3.25 seconds) Friend: . . . Why? Me: (https://goo.gl/images/5Zi8bd)

Breezey Boy6/30/2018, 4:25:44 AM4 votes

I like what you're saying but there are some problems with it. If RQ becomes a ground target, then she'll just constant spam it in lane, creating another Brand support, which I know most support mains are already against. This would also take away from her skill level, and as a result, less fun to play as, at least in my opinion. If it's just for RQ and not regular Q, then I guess it could work. For her W, I, for the most part, think it's fine, but yeah, it should become a flat heal. However, I do think the root should stay, it's just so damn helpful when it goes off, but for sure the casting time needs to go away, and the tether duration should be shortened so then the root is actually reliable. Everything else, I agree with you.

Almighty6/30/2018, 4:53:05 PM4 votes

[deleted]

IxtaliKing6/30/2018, 11:06:37 AM3 votes

I really missed your Karma threads xD

100% agree on everything, of course.

Bladeleaf7/1/2018, 2:38:41 AM3 votes

This is brilliant and I never fucking say that to rework idea threads.

Caretaker Jack6/30/2018, 8:51:06 AM3 votes

What Karma wants, what Karma needs, Whatever makes us happy sets Rito free. And I'm thanking you for knowing exactly...

What Karma wants, what Karma needs, Whatever keeps me playing her baby. And I'm thanking you for telling it to me.

alekzu6/30/2018, 2:56:25 PM2 votes

I don't think her shield and ally W should proc her passive. It will cause more problems because people will spam shield off cooldown and reduce her mantra with no skill involved. What if the proc happened from her W and E when the tethered target took damage and her shield blocked it? This way you will have to time them just like you need to accurately aim your Qs.

And while speaking about her passive I feel it's just too broken. It needs to be reverted back to 2 sec.

As for her RW heal share do you mean that Karma and her ally should be both healed twice? Wouldn't that along with W's resistance and her shield be too good? I've seen suggestions where Karma donated it to her ally. I don't fully agree on donating all of it but what if she could donate half of it?

Otherwise I agree with the rest.

Elegant Egoistic8/10/2018, 2:52:20 PM1 votes

Her visuals suck, since they're working on her its good if they clear the mess..being the spiritual incarnation of Ionia with no interactions with anyone, no animations no fans is just god-awful

DW Diana6/30/2018, 8:24:08 AM1 votes

Ok so I'll start by saying I don't play Karma, and I get everything you said and it's kinda makes sense to me except one thing... No Root. If you want her to be midlane viable (which seems to be the direction you're going) then she NEEDS some form of CC. The speed from her shield gives her the "sticking" power to get the root off. Where would to add this if those changes were to be implemented? Personally I think the shield bomb would be the best option, with it doing some damage but also an small AOE stun (Lissandra W sort of radius). Do you think this would be a viable option for her?

dogehkiin6/30/2018, 11:37:55 AM1 votes

I actually love her actual kit but that's probably because I play her FULL AP or inmortal W full heal 1v1 offtank.

Ionian Vulpix6/30/2018, 12:19:38 PM1 votes

I've seen the RQ change suggested, and I am vehemently against it. Karma's Q and RQ hurt a lot early game, especially on ADCs who have very, very low base health and resistances. Her Q already out ranges them at that point. Making it ground targeted, with both the initial damage and the delayed damage, will just make her poke nearly on the level of Brand or Zyra without sacrificing a real support champion.

If you've got to have this, the damage on her RQ needs to be neutered.

For what I think needs changes, something to her Passive and W. What exactly, I don't know. They just aren't fun to use and having a support's only hard CC be single target and extremely unreliable isn't fun.

And her ultimate could use an extra particle effect when she activates it, kind of like Heimerdinger's. Maybe the things on her back could glow brighter?

LeeEstes6/30/2018, 2:09:39 PM1 votes

Ah I love to play Karma! So happy to see a discussion about her ^^ Firstly, I like the way her Q is right now and I agree with Inioan Vulpix. The Q might actually be the only spell that doesn't need a change. I like it the way it is. It's strong enough early game and I rather see Karma go down the road of Janna and Nami than be on the side of Brand and Zyra. So I'm against a ground RQ. I agree that she lacks cc. I still use to play her a lot during thunderlords mastery (the blue one) which means most of the time I didn't have to rely on her only cc. I simply had to hit a Q/RQ, use an aa and press w. I feel like her w is quite dangerous to use since it's only a single target cc and it means you have to stand close to you enemy. This usually only works for a few picks of people who are out of position. In teamfights her kit just lacks. I guess the e shieldbomb + possible cc could be a fun way to give her more cc. I'm also okay with her RW being something of a cc like a small Morgana R? I would actually be okay with either losing that heal (so Karma won't be played tank) OR making it a (flat) heal that could also help a teammate. I feel like these changes could keep Karma in the support role as well as a possible apc role but not a tank role. This where just my quick thought about it, could be that it's too OP/UP.

But let's make one point clear; Please give her some love Riot <3

Hupsis6/30/2018, 2:46:38 PM1 votes

TL;DR response

  1. yes... more like Shyvana's dragon from E tho
  2. maybe
  3. yes
  4. maybe
  5. no Bonus: no

On the topic of shieldbomb: her Q already offers her kit a good aoe damage option. Introducing shieldbom would only homogenize mantra to be just a damage ability. In addition to the suggestions of increasing RW damage and making RQ ground targeted, I don't really see how this would maintain Karma's identity as a champion with multiple tools. Everything would be just about damage...

Shieldbombs worked in her original design where her Q was a heal and not a damage tool and at that time it was her go to spell for dealing damage, nowadays it's Q.

And what about her AOE shield? If shieldbomb was given back to her, the amount of shielding would either have to be reduced to unsatisfying levels or be completely removed in order to make the spell feel impactful.

I'd prefer having one offensive mantra option and one defensive one instead of having two aoe damage abilities that compete/overlap with each other (even if it's just partly).

What comes to her passive, it's supposed to encourage aggressive & risky plays, not defensive ones. Making mantra cooldown get reduced by shielding allies promotes passive play.

Elohaven6/30/2018, 4:45:34 PM1 votes

We don't want another Brand support.

Karma is pretty oppressive in lane already. Tank Karma is also disgusting.

She really needs a complete rework rather than QoL changes. The RW change is also oppressive since E still introduces movement speed. I would actually introduce her into a support to stop things like Brand support - an anti-mage support. I think that would be a cool identity with her own custom shield factor.

invisiblecat16/30/2018, 4:52:18 PM1 votes

I think it is also worth mentioning her Q scaling Right now, if you try to play karma as a mid lane mage she will do really well early because Riot gave her strong base damage However, as everyone starts to scale, her Q AP scaling is really weak for a mage, making her useless This causes people to play her as a support I think lowering base damage, but increasing AP scaling is a good idea