AFKs, leavers, and how Riot could/should handle it

Zarffyn·10/24/2014, 9:44:42 AM·7 votes·2,064 views

-- Disclaimer -- Did not know where to post this exactly. I thought gameplay/balance could do it. Yes, this topic makes me rage. A lot.

This subject might have already been discussed. In that case, no problem. Riot, still read it. It could give you some ideas.

It is quite long, take some patience. Interesting and serious part is at bottom. -- End of disclaimer --

Hello Community,

So I think this is something everybody, I mean, EVERY player in the League has encountered. A lot. And for some reasons, because Murphy is always with us, it occurs even more when we are in a promotion serie. And I'm pissed. I mean, PISSED !

AFKs, leavers and disconnected players. I might be cursed or something, but I woulnd't be far from the truth if I said I have in 20 to 25% of my games someones who afk/dc and we lose because of this. That's huge. Yes I know there is the tribunal. Yes I know we can report players for being AFK. But seriously. Do really players get any bans for AFK ? If they repeatedly AFK on purpose, that would be fair. But how do you know they do it on purpose ? Could be a storm and the power goes down. Or for whatever reasons you get disconnected/have to leave. (I still understand that life>game thing, but other team members should NOT be blamed for the issues of one). Getting a ban for AFK isn't a good solution in my opinion, because I do believe most of the time they don't want to leave. And even in the case they do get banned, it doesn't change the fact that 4 -sometimes 3 and less- players get screwed in elo/rating/promo/whatever. And knowing that AFK gets banned won't change that. So basically the system screws the entire team because one of its member is unable to play for whatever the reasons, thus making an uneaven game.

So, how come there is nothing in the game to handle such a thing ? Of course you can still win 4v5. I won 4v5 several times. As I also lost 5v4. I guess it happened to everybody. But that's not the topic.

So Riot, no solutions for this ? You found one for LCS and Worlds at least. There is this "pause" option we see quite often on the streams. Why not implement such an option in game ?

Acutally, I already thought of something for you. What if there was a voting system for each team (or all 10 players) to cancel a game ? Blizzard had a pause system, and even a save option, in Starcraft 1. That's right. You could pause the game, save it, even with 8 players, and then reload it and continue the game like a week after, as long as the same 8 players were there. In WoW you can vote to kick someone from your group/instance/raid team. And that vacant place is automatically replaced by someone else, with the same role.

In DOTA 2 anyone can pause the game. Although the it doesn't seem so usefull, the option still exists. But most importantly, if a player disconnects for more than 5 minutes, the team mates can simply leave the game, without losing any ranking/elo.

Why is there no such thing here ? Now don't get me wrong. Voting to kick someone would be pretty stupid in League of Legends. That's not the idea.

But here are a few ideas that could work. What do you think ?

Establishing a way to open the vote What do I mean by that ? Simply that if there is an option to cancel a game, people would abuse it. Especially in teams I guess. That's why we need things like requirements to get in order to be able to open a vote (like waiting 20 minutes at least to surrender). These requirements could be:

  • 1 player doesn't move/talk and is 100% innactive for more than 5 minutes
  • 1 player gets disconnected for more than 5 minutes (in a block, not 5 times 1 minute)
  • other ideas ?

Who could vote ? Now that the requirement is met, one team can open a vote. Would only the team that opens the vote be able to vote, or would it be open for all players ? This is an open question. Even though the only ones directly touched by an AFK is his team, I guess the vote could be open to all 9 other players.

Cancel the entire game This might be the most radical option. Once the vote is accepted, the game is canceled and does not count. No point loss or gain, for both team. Nothing. As if the game did not existed. In this case, the vote would obviously not be openend to the "strong team".

Cancel loss of losing team This could be the easiest solution. And maybe the fairest. The point loss is canceled for the losing team, as long as it's this team that openend the vote and has an AFK member. Of course the AFK player loses points/elo, and can't joint another game for 1 hour.

Let's clear things up. Team A and B. Team A has an AFK and opens a vote. The vote is accepted and Team A loses. Team B wins and recieves their elo/ranking points. Team A loses nothing, except for the AFK member. Now if Team A still wins even though 4v5, then Team A gets their points, and Team B loses their points too. AFK player loses his points anyway.

Replace the AFK player Maybe the most complexe, but complete solution. If a vote within a team is opened and accepted, the AFK player is kicked away from the game. He loses elo/ranking points and gets an automatic 1h ban (same as if you dodged queue). The game pauses the moment the vote is opened. Once the player is kicked, the game opens a search for another player with same champ to replace the missing member. Once the player is replaced, a second vote opens just to be sure all players are here, and the game resumes.

The player that just joined the game would win ranking if game won. But would not lose anything if the team he just joined loses. That way you don't fear of joining a game already started.

This would also mean to create a new queue when chosing which game mode you want to play. Like a "Join a ranked game" queue.

Team abuse Voting creates abuse. Quite easy to see if doing some premade 5v5 teams. The requirement for opening a vote as a team could be restricted to only disconnected player. Since the game says when a player disconnects or reconnects, it should be quite easy to know that in a script, wouldn't it ? The AFK/kicked player would still be unable to join a game for 1h. If within 1 hour the same or another player of** that same team** is AFK/kicked too, then the whole team and all it's players within are banned for 24h from joining a game. I think this would prevent too much abuse in teams.

The vote could also take place AFTER the game. When we honor/report people. If a name is in read (disconnected) on the losing team => automatic vote.

So I think this is it. I came around and I don't think I missed something. In any case I'll edit it later.

What do you think ? Is it viable ? Do you see other solution about how to handle AFKs ? Is there other ways to abuse such a system ? And I am sure there is, but for evey problem there is a solution. So go head and look for "security breach". This is a brainstorminig !

Zarffyn, a pissed player at AFK and at Riot for not doing anything against this issue.

16 Comments

disregardable10/24/2014, 10:20:31 AM4 votes

The only system I see as acceptable is a cancelling the whole game vote. Both teams would get a neutral LP score (but still obtain IP). The vote would require a 4/5ths (3/4ths, etc) majority on each team. Both teams need to be involved. I believe the League community has enough pity to cancel games with AFKs when the game was otherwise equal. If the entire team is feeding and someone AFKs, that team should not get a forgiveness for a game it had no chance of winning. Likewise, let's say someone has connection issues mid game and leaves an already fed team. That just makes it easier for the team with the AFK to close, because instead of sharing experience with 5 people, they're now sharing it with four. Dragons, Barons, and farm now have higher experience than the team that's behind are receiving, and the poor other team is underfed! This is a situation where the cancel button is ideal for the team without the AFK, because the AFK actually hurt their chances of a comeback.

Worgslarg10/24/2014, 12:56:00 PM1 votes

Too harsh imo.

Also, the only non-abusable system would be a game cancel, but it would have to be a both team vote. Also, with riot's servers having seizures every minute since patch 4.18, implementing a 1 hour ban for a dc from a normal game would just be a dick move.

This is Snake10/24/2014, 1:42:09 PM1 votes

Great ideas here. Problem is the enemy team, and majority that Ive witnessed in my Bronze games, do not give a shit whether someone on the other side has an AFK or DC'd. They are after one thing, LP, then end of the game they will talk shit and leave.

Having a voting system is the only thing that could work but if you need the enemies consent, Im willing to bet the enemy will decline and just faceroll the team with 1 AFK/DC. Why? LP.

Ive lost hope in this community. No way this will work, but it could.

Konidias10/24/2014, 5:11:11 PM1 votes

Yeah I agree with Snake XT... 95% of the time the enemy team will just refuse to cancel the game... so this feature would be kind of pointless. People will look for any advantage to win. If that means playing 5 v 4, so be it.

Bauerbach10/24/2014, 5:25:17 PM1 votes

It is a non issue, people like to ignore all the games they won because they are on the plus side of 5v4.

AFK is random (IE the game is not selecting you and only you to pair with AFKers) and according to this thread, its also frequent. Basic statistics then says that the probabilities of winning and losing are not impacted by AFKers.

AFKs will cause you to win as often as they cause you to lose.

I get it... thats human nature, you remember the beats, not the wins. But you cant tear the game apart because people have selective memories.

LP is sufficient compensation, though its really meaningless as well. If everyone gets LP for their AFKs, and everyone gets the same number of AFKs, then we all ge the same LP and our percentile ranking is not changed. Its just lip service to calm your anger, nothing more.

Bauerbach10/24/2014, 6:32:58 PM1 votes

actually.... I want to amend my statement... AFK FAVORS YOU!

see... theres a 5/10 chance that the enemy team will suffer an AFK.

only a 4/10 chance your team will.

Assuming you do not AFK...

Then theres the rabbit hole of what causes an AFK, by being a nice person or carrying you can prevent rage quits. Id be sure AFKs are more common on a losing side.

Konidias10/24/2014, 7:06:04 PM1 votes

Except... the amount of games a person would have to play for the variance to balance out is not even humanly possible.

You're talking over THOUSANDS of games... When I figure the average player doesn't even reach 1000 games in a season. Sure, after you play 200,000 games, the numbers will probably even out. :)

It's all about the quantity. If you flip a coin 50 times, you might get heads 35 times. If you flip the coin 50000 times, it would probably be closer to 25,000 for each.

Also, anyone claiming "you have better odds of an afk being on the enemy team because you are guaranteed not to afk, making it 4 v 5 odds" is wrong.

There is EQUALLY AS LIKELY a chance that the opposing team also has at least one person who won't afk... just like you. So... whoops. Your odds are off.

Zarffyn10/24/2014, 9:26:12 PM1 votes

I think there is a missunderstanding. I'm not so much talking about AFK/rage quit because your team is losing. But more about random disconnected players.

Bauerbach, you claim that

AFKs will cause you to win as often as they cause you to lose.

Really ? Then you must be a god in this game and please, come play with me. I'll be glad. I honestly can only remember 2, maybe 3, games I won 4v5. I can't count the ones I lost because of a disconnected/leaver/AFK player. And luck may have left me, but at least 1 game in each promo I get an AFK. Explain the odds to me again please.

Or you were talking AFK in general. Okay, on that you are right. STATISTICALLY, there is pretty much the same chances my team or the ennemy team gets an AFK. I should have kept a reccord. But I can bet I have at least a ratio 2-1.

But it's not even so much about wining or losing. It's more about being fair. When enemy team gets an AFK and I get a "free win", I'm like "this sucks". But I won't leave the game and get a ban or whatever, because like you say, it "evens itself out". Maybe it's more about frustration. If such a system existed, I wouldn't mind to accept canceling a game.

In the end, I'm pretty sure you say that because you don't have systematically an AFK in your team during your last promotion game. I do. Bad luck.

SmokingPuffin10/24/2014, 10:28:14 PM1 votes

Yes I know we can report players for being AFK. But seriously. Do really players get any bans for AFK ?

As I understand it, LeaverBuster bans more players than all other systems combined.

This might be the most radical option. Once the vote is accepted, the game is canceled and does not count. No point loss or gain, for both team. Nothing. As if the game did not existed.

This is highly prone to abuse. Remember, it is a very common scenario for a player to get dumpstered in lane and ragequit. Now I'm sure his teammates would like to be able to cancel the game, but that's not fair to the players on the winning team.

As far as I am concerned, ragequits are justified losses; players usually ragequit only when they are convinced the game is hopeless anyway.

Let's clear things up. Team A and B. Team A has an AFK and opens a vote. The vote is accepted and Team A loses. Team B wins and recieves their elo/ranking points. Team A loses nothing, except for the AFK member.

This proposal has a serious flaw. By not having the elo gains equal the elo losses in the game, you just created elo inflation. That means ratings are no longer stable, and this creates a bias in the rating system towards active players and away from inactive ones. It also means you can't use numeric thresholds to determine where divisions start and end, because the ratings are constantly increasing.

Rikari10/25/2014, 12:04:15 AM1 votes

Error 404: Riot does not care.

Zarffyn11/4/2014, 2:57:09 PM1 votes

So... Not so many people like the idea I see. Shame. I am considering going to DOTA2 just only because of this reason. Yep. As soon as there is an AFK, a timer goes on. After 5 minutes, anyone in that team can leave the game without any disadvantages...

This would avoid situations like this: https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/7607_10204358865626804_4890466471992051523_n.jpg?oh=4de719c50700df6e69d8eafdb597ac64&oe=54E60310&__gda__=1424854162_8565a9b439f3869202382ad370e58fdc

Yes I know, it's a normal game. But in the end, same shit. Destroying 3v5 and still losing because they can push better... It's like if in a football game 4 players instantly disapeared and the team had to finish the game at 7 vs 11...