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Riot, why don't you just buff champs without mobility?

Ragnaric·3/15/2015, 8:52:45 PM·42 votes·3,303 views

Honestly, I find it really annoying that nothing has been done about the mobility creep. Every game at high elo right now, is the same old recycled champs over and over again, especially mid lane. they all get so much reward for so little risk. Before people start arguing that all those assassins put themselves in harm's way to get their kills, I'd also like to throw in the fact that they can outtrade anyone else as early as lvl 2 simply because they can use their get out of jail free abilities to avoid any real punishmet. It's been a while since i've seen karthus, anivia, lux or any of the older mages and it is really upsetting.

Riot, since you're not very inclined to nerfing those precious assassins, how about you just buff the older mages? Make them tankier early game, give them slightly more range, buff their base damage or ap ratios early game so they can trade more effectively, but don't just forget about them and keep spamming mobility champions that make playing this game strongly stacked in their favor.

51 Comments

Serenity Now3/15/2015, 9:23:28 PM15 votes

Fiddle counters Kat, LeBlanc, and Zed. They invariably roam bottom to try and get a kill, so as long as you ping and ward they fall behind. But yeah, I hear you. Sure would be nice to see some old school mages again. I had hoped the new AP item would help, but it rewards mobility instead.

Fizz goes top lane now with his %health damage.

Ahri needs a smallish nerf, but is otherwise ok.

Nidalee is just broken. She has nukes, sustain, and mobility. What are you smoking Riot?

Thumpin3/16/2015, 6:17:08 AM10 votes

Oh, did we all forget about Xerath and Cassiopeia now? How about Viktor?

Immobile mages are fine. Some less than others, but for the most part yeah they're fine. Typically they bring better CC than their mobile competitors, and quite often better damage as well. That or ridiculously long range waveclear that people seem to undervalue.

Don't look at Veigar as a benchmark for immobile champions, Riot's still figuring him out after their "compensation".

Wheatloaf3/16/2015, 3:55:08 AM9 votes

Rule #1: It's never that simple.

qetzel3/16/2015, 10:25:06 AM6 votes

Because this would create binary gameplay. Basically, two things can happen:

Immobile champion manages to reach mobile champ.Immobile champion has been buffed such that there is now only one outcome. Mobile champion dies, as do any non-mobile champions that happened to get in the way.

Immobie champion doesn't manage to reach mobile champion. The buff solved nothing, mobile champion still wins. But wait, the other immobile champions are still more vulnerable, so they still die.

Buffs for the sake of buffs just don't work. Also, Riot has been nerfing assassins recently...

DanofDemacia3/16/2015, 3:18:16 AM5 votes

OP isnt suggesting giving immobile champs mobility. He is saying they just need to be compensated for the lack of it.

SQD D3/16/2015, 4:45:17 AM4 votes

It's annoying to get a lead as someone like and then the enemy Zed Leblanc Ahri Fizz gets a item 3117 and roams bot for a double. Suddenly you have lost lane and you can't farm safely due to unsafe spell ranges and such. I'm sure other mages fit into this scenario. Ex. Veigar Velkoz Swain Orianna

Brand feels bad to me sometimes due to his ult fizzling at the drop of a dime and how his stun doesn't really stop dashes at all.

Ragnaric3/16/2015, 12:45:41 AM4 votes

I see some comments saying luden's echo already buffed immobiles. The thing is, it buffs ap characters in general, so naturally the mobile assassins are buffed even more as a result.

ScurvyNave3/15/2015, 9:00:30 PM3 votes

The trick is that many of the immobile mages were once the dominant players. The mobility of assassins was the only way to counter them and even today, a good lux or vel'koz can stomp a zed or ahri. It may be difficult but not impossible.

Can you imagine some of the old champs with mobility worked into their kit? A Lux with a gap closer? An Anivia with a jump?

I'm not saying that the mobility creep is good, far from it, but there has to be a system of checks and balances in order to have a functioning game. That being said the assassins have always been a tough group for balance because of their concept:

An assassin is supposed to quickly kill a target with as little time for reaction as possible. Naturally, getting one shotted with no chance of retaliation is a shitty experience in game and hence the issues with assassins They do what everyone hates and now with the mana nerfs and league of mobility they're doing it with even more ease.

Abyssphere3/15/2015, 8:58:18 PM3 votes

Katarina and Nidalee should not be winning level 2 trades.

FantasySniper3/16/2015, 2:01:57 AM3 votes

Very few champions have a poor balance of mobility and CC.

Like... only KogMaw , Mordekaiser , Urgot , and barely Shen and Yorick don't have the average balance, and they mostly make up for that with a stronger amount of damage and/or defense.

The thing about mobility creep is that most CC is not guaranteed, while most any mobility is. So in an environment where it's better to have the consistency of controlling your own movement instead of the opponents', mobility almost immediately takes dominance.

If fighting any mobile champion in general was more consistent, things would be okay, but you have so much crap attached to dashes like "untargetability" or crap tons of damage, and their "mobility" skill is almost always on a lower CD than the CC that should be countering them.

Aranii3/15/2015, 10:12:08 PM2 votes

I agree, but I think the best change would be to buff base stats. Xerath, Viktor, and Annie don't need anymore damage, but an extra 10ms, increased auto range, or increased base health would do wonders for Anivia, Lux, and Syndra.

krawkaw3/16/2015, 4:05:42 AM2 votes

Lux main. trust me. I feel the pain

Very Hard Engage3/15/2015, 8:57:44 PM1 votes

because then immobile champs become stronger than mobile champs, and immobile champs get played more because they're stronger, now all of a sudden games are 50+minutes because no one wants to take risks because it isn't built into their kits and people just want to turtle and farm. remember sieges with syndra/ziggs for days and no one got anywhere?

Knight SoIaire 3/17/2015, 2:54:21 PM1 votes

immobile champions rely on brute force mobility can rarely out juke it (lets face it ... the main problem is that adc kiting you or enemy jusat jumping away form you not yasuo being able to dash towards you)

so if we buff immobile champions we actualy render mobility obsolete since any fight they cant start is lost

my personal take on this problem is that immobile champions should get more movement stopping crowd controll while mobile champions shouldnt get much of it (right now most of our hard cc is actualy put on mobile champions)

do you know the threads about riot implementing a cc that is aimed specificaly at stopping mobility ? well we already have it in game, its a snare ... blocks all your movement and all skills that involwe you changing your standing spot

the thing is that riot just does not use this cc at all, we either get a stunn or a knockup

so in the end i wouldnt say anyone here needs any buff becuase it isnt a ballance problem ... its a design problem that wrecks ballance (just like certainlyt does) and the solution is redesigning champions

OoohCreamy3/15/2015, 10:13:14 PM1 votes

i would be very scared of a mobile

Ragnaric3/16/2015, 12:57:11 AM1 votes

I'm also not suggesting that immobile champs suddenly become mobile, that just completely messes up the game by tackling mobility creep with more mobility. The problem lies in how easy it is for assassins to get fed and there being little you can do to stop them. Zed gets to ult you and he can either attack you until you're dead, OR if he thinks it's too much of a risk, then he can just back off again with very little punishment, if any, for his mistake. Same goes with leblanc. I would be fine with it if once they commit, they have to stick to their goal of killing the target or die in the process. Besides, if immobile mages are buffed in terms of damage or resilience, then the assassin actually has to assess the situation of going in, rather than just mindlessly blowing all their skills on one target and winning the duel before it even starts.

Stephenizgod3/16/2015, 2:10:43 AM1 votes

Its either Mobility or Immobility, both can not be equal in strength. They can both be overpowering its just one is flashier.

Crett3/16/2015, 2:32:46 AM1 votes

They can't buff immobile champions, because generally, their gameplay becomes binary than it already is. Imagine what would happen to the game if Annie or Daris were buffed; as it stands, mobile champions simply have too many tools for dishing out crazy damage and CC while being able to take far more risks thanks to positioning not being nearly as big a deal.

Although, there ARE some immobile champions in particular that I think are in need of looking at; at times they are entirely too weak, and at other times, too strong, in a way I think is unhealthy for the game Veigar you ALL KNOW WHY Taric he has a rework coming so it's fine for now Sona after early game i just don't know, her scaling is extremely undertuned Garen he has no way of contributing to his team as a real tank; with all the tank buffs, though, he may see more use in teamfights thanks to more acessible engage

Athenes Lulu3/16/2015, 7:25:00 AM1 votes

Meanwhile let's gut the shit out of Veigar, an immoblie mage that can legitimately stop mobility. We know Rito likes to do the opposite of what we want.

Avios13/16/2015, 3:37:35 PM1 votes

Well, I just kinda throw my corrosion grenade as the great ol' Urgot here and pop my shield and start walking with them while throwing Q's. Works like a charm.

BLU Medic3/16/2015, 3:40:49 PM1 votes

No. But more should be done to give the completely unviable champions a place in LoL, many of whom are indeed immobile.

Junkο3/16/2015, 4:49:48 PM1 votes

I'd also like to throw in the fact that they can outtrade anyone else as early as lvl 2 simply because they can use their get out of jail free abilities to avoid any real punishmet.

Actually, Katarina uses her ability to go in, so does Nidalee, meanwhile Zed uses it to trade, if he switches places to AA he can't get back out. This only applies to Fizz and LB, meanwhile Ahri doesn't even get into melee range

Civil Dawn3/16/2015, 6:11:57 PM1 votes

The problem with buffing is that it can cause power creep if done incorrectly.

lB2kGRlc8y3/17/2015, 2:34:44 PM1 votes

They did give "compensation buffs" to one of the older mages. Considering how that went and how they have yet to address the real issue with that champion I kind of want them to stay away from the champs that are decent atm.

MrSc0tty3/17/2015, 2:42:25 PM1 votes

Because then someone might pick immobile champs who don't have flashy plays and fancy particles, and then people might not go "woooo" in LCS every time they use a skill.