I don't understand why we QQ so much about the 'LCS Big Plays Champs' [Zed/Lee/Thresh/etc]

Ellphi·1/16/2015, 12:05:35 PM·6 votes·1,836 views

Zed / Lee / Thresh / Yasuo / Vayne / whatever

Why is GD so butthurt about these champs? Are we just so infuriated that they're doing well in pro games? Are we just super upset that instead of Lee, they're not just picking Warwick or some other super fun champ over and over?

Or are the most vocal posters just really butthurt about getting personally rekt by these champions? . . . I'm just going to say the simple truth that GD doesn't want to hear: Champs like Lee / Zed / Thresh / Yasuo / Vayne are not in any way OP in our solo queue games, the only thing they could possibly be "OP" at is feeding . . . YES Riot is very obviously leaving a bunch of champions with high skill caps in a VERY strong position, and the recent statement on Zed only further solidifies that point, but let's be frank here : who he hell cares that high skill cap champs that are honestly fun to watch are OP when played well? Riot didn't nerf Zed this patch because he's fun to watch, is a well-designed assassin (ya bring out the pitchforks), and is not OP in our nooblord solo queue games. . . . Why do we get the impression that the big LCS Champs are OP?

  1. These champions tend to be pretty good at everything. Pros obviously aren't going to prefer some weird ass niche shyt over a jack-of-all trades champion. Pro teams are playing a completely different meta than solo queue, they need champions with the kits to keep up the faster gameplay because to win they need to capitalize off the smallest mistakes - which implies they need the right tools in the right place at the right time - and often this is achieved by just having a bunch of champs that do everything decently enough. But, as far as our solo queue games go, it's often preferable to take champions who are 'Lord of X, complete crap at Y' ** InB4: "Oh my Gawd Lee Sin is so OP his Swiss Army Kit is totally always fast-pacing over muh Gold 2 games" NO he's NOT. I've been in Gold 2, and almost NOTHING gets done quickly. Oh damn mid killed his opponent? Yeah Jungler just gunna go ahead and jack off for a minute instead of taking dragon. There's so much discoordination in solo queue that you can EASILY pick weird niche champions who can utterly faceroll their niche and still have plenty of time to bring the right tools to the right place **

  2. These champions tend to be very safe. Dying matters a lot in pro games, a death can lead to a huge disadvantage because a coordinated team will take the smallest splinter and furiously rub it until it becomes a gnashing AIDS-hole. As such, they pick champions with high mobility which trade off some straight 'ball of stat-iness' in exchange for the ability to be in the right position more often, because Pros can do that. Yeah sure it sucks in solo queue to feed like a soup kitchen while the enemy Zed spams laugh while escaping your dyslexic jungler's ganks, but at the end of the day when Zed's the only guy left alive on his team because he didn't do jack-sht in the team fight other than ult in and 'Juke-lord 3000' away and the enemy team is barreling down mid with a tower pushing goon squad, Zed might as well be a glorified super minion.

  3. If fed and played properly, these champions will absolutely destroy everything. Obviously champions that are well suited to quick paced gameplay can inherently kill feeders very quickly and globally if given the opportunity but let's be completely honest, how often do these big LCS champs actually do well in solo queue games? If you said like 'dayum man all the time dude' you are a LIAR. Besides, we all know being fed doesn't even come close to guaranteeing a win. Solo queue is all about being less stupid than the enemy, and with great kits comes great stupidity - hence Pee Sin Syndrome. . . .

So Here's the actual Solo Queue Tierlist for the every day feeder:

http://www.nerfplz.com/2014/12/2014-champion-tier-list-solo-queue.html . . . What do we notice?

  1. Zed is not even Tier 1. GASP You know why? Because if there's a Zed in your Plat solo queue game, he's probably either feeding or being useless. "Jack of all trades" doesn't amount to anything when you're laning against "The Lord of AFK farming under turret waiting for Gank". Zed doesn't waveclear THAT WELL, he doesn't assassinate THAT WELL, he doesn't even escape THAT WELL.

  2. Most the Tier 1 + champions are button-mash to win. Solo queue is a game of probability, skill cap requirement is a liability. You don't need to be good and make big InSec plays because making 1 play barely means anything in the course of a game. In the pro scene, flashy plays are vital because each advantage becomes huge when capitalized upon, but as far as our games go a Pee Sin that makes cool plays 2/5 times is nowhere near as good as a Talon who can button-mash 5/5 times because 3/5 times Lee just screws everything and feeds. Yeah sometimes Pee Sin pulls off the game-winning InSec, but how often does that REALLY happen compared to Katarina 'pulling off' the game-winning Face Mash?

  3. Many of the Tier 1+ champs are incredibly 1 dimensional. It's better to be good at 1 thing than mediocre at a lot of things - UNLESS again your team is just so fluid and well oiled that you need to be able to do anything at a moment's notice. I don't know if I've stressed this point enough, but what the hell is the point of Thresh having a decent potential for everything when the enemy Sona is just mashing buttons and wrecking bot lane because she has ungodly poke and sustain?

As we can see there are huge differences between what makes a champ good in a SKILLED 5 MAN PREMADE and a SOLO QUEUE 4 MAN + 1 TROLL JACK OFF SESSION

That being said, I'm TOTALLY FINE with there being a specific set of champions that Riot balances specifically towards pro gameplay because I like to watch cool plays. I don't load up muh Twitch.tv to watch 2 nooblords slap it out with Katarina and Akali, I watch to see Madlife do crazy hooks and maneuvers. Truth is, these LCS champions SUCK in solo queue. Yes we get outplayed by them sometimes, but we shouldn't get butthurt about it. We should appreciate that Riot is designing champions with incredibly detailed kits despite the huge community backlash of 'oh my god overloaded kit #CertainlyTNeedsToBeBurntAtTheStake' because we often forget that we COULD be watching and playing 24/7 Shen vs Irelia noodle-slap top lane right before Katarina shows up and kills all 4 of them by mashing R.

17 Comments

asktiks1/16/2015, 12:27:41 PM6 votes

fun to watch is not a valid balance argument im sorry

and people seem to get upset by op no counterplay champs because they literally suck the fun out of the game for anyone facing said champs, even if we can counter them

why do I have to work twice as hard just to counter said champ because "they are fun to watch on lcs" ?

im sorry but that is not a valid argument to maintain a champs higher than average viability with zero counterplay except "don't let him get fed"

that's the argument they make for akali and she remains permaban , shes still fun to watch though why don't pro players like watching her or using her then?

you sir, are in the minority most if not all of the general playerbase doesn't care to watch lcs nor they care wich champs are gettn exploited there or not, its about playing a game that's fun to us with champs we like you may like being forced to meta exclusively and drool over LCSBiGPLAYS but most of us don't really give a hoot about that so citing flashiness on tournaments as an argument to let some champs remain op and downright cancerous to other players not only makes you look condescending but it invalidates any opinion on balance that you could possibly throw at us.

YossarianSensei1/16/2015, 12:23:31 PM5 votes

So apparently those 'hidden OP' champions were never even 'hidden', just OP lolololo

Sohleks1/16/2015, 12:50:28 PM3 votes

As a higher rated player the way this thread sort of apologizes for these overloaded kits annoys me, however I always known the point of this thread to be true to a certain extent. In practice simpler one dimensional champs are used to their potential much more often, even if they're far more counterable and overall not as good...

But I think one concept this thread ignores is risk. When played well Zed is an extremely low risk champion with a good laning phase, powerful waveclear, excellent 1v1 split pushing power... his ult guarantees him an out... I hate Zed for this reason. I am cool with Thresh and Lee for the most part though because at least for them to assert there dominance they have to take risks. Or at least they are not carries in themselves.

Hasztalan21/16/2015, 2:29:44 PM2 votes

Cuz the "Muh lcs playz champions" are being kept stronger on PURPOSE which is absurd.

Fadedpf1/16/2015, 12:25:12 PM1 votes

People dont QQ over "BIG PLAYS" we want Zed LeeSin Yasuo NERFED. They make "big plays" with their stupidly high mobility and damage, a zed with just 100 farm can literally press R and destroy a 3 and 0 mage, if he just plays it right. They have too much, mobility, escapes, damage, split pushing, dueling power. The list goes on.

Ultîma1/16/2015, 5:02:44 PM1 votes

I think the #LCSBIGPLAYS flag is thrown around a bit too readily, however I will say that when champions are played at high-elos, pick-or-ban in tournaments, and very hard to deal with at all elos there is a problem.

Zed, Lee Sin and Yasuo have all displayed these traits, due to their extreme safety or their ability to run circles around half of the champion pool. Lee Sin's kit would be wonderful on a support character due to the sheer amount of utility it provides, yet in some cases he's allowed to function as a death-delivering initiator, fighter, assassin. It's overcentralization like nothing else, and you can expect him to succeed in any of these capacities at any level of play.

Saint Millay1/16/2015, 8:13:30 PM1 votes

You know ... I went into this post after reading the header ready to hate everything you had to say ... but honestly you make some pretty good points.

My one comment would that Lee Sin is annoying regardless of skill level, because he has so much redundancy.

Miss your Q on the minions so you can jet away, that's ok, just W to a friendly minion. No friendly minions around and your trinket ward is down? Just R the enemy away from you. Your Ult is down too? Well damn, I guess just E for the AoE slow and walk away. Wow -- that didn't work? Don't worry, your Q is back up. Try again.

It feels like he never gets punished for his stupid plays which is really frustrating. Then he'll kill you with his R and start spamming about "The PLAYS" in all chat and I want to break my keyboard on his damn blind head.

Maybe I just need to start a Lee Sin Haters support group ... :D

Anyway -- good post.