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Ashe, across all Ranks

xaufi··10 votes·1,701 views

Ashe--across all ranks--is considered one of the lowest performing carries according to leagueofgraphs.com and champion.gg

At 15 minutes, she is riding a ~45% WR and only comes close to breaking 50% around 40 minutes (haha right).

The top 5 ADC that counter Ashe: [ WR ] champion.gg Corki: 47.55% Jhin: 46.23% Varus: 44.84% Jinx: 48.05% Kog'maw: 47.7%

The top 5 ADC that Ashe counters: [ WR ] champion.gg Quinn: 51.85% Kalista: 60% Urgot: 46.87% Tristana: 51.38% Sivir: 53.33%

Doesn't it seem strange that Ashe has roughly a 10% greater chance of losing to a champion that she counters?

A few ideas that I've tossed around...

  • Movespeed: 325 -> 330
  • Ranger's Focus applies 2% currentHP as True damage while the target is affected by Critical Slow.
  • Enchanted C. Arrow: 200/400/600 (5% currentHP for every 1,000 units traveled) passive Right Back to It: if target is executed reduce ult CD by 5% for every 1,000 units traveled)

The line of thinking I had when coming up with these ideas would be to reward the player for utilizing Ranger's Focus on a champion. Now for the adjustments to her ult; removing the AP component and replacing it with the %currentHP per distance traveled would further enforce the idea that her ult is an execute and even more so when rewarded by a reduced CD for a successful pick.

Thoughts? Objections?

22 Comments

Drehirth3 votes

:(

just revert some nerfs.. they were already overkill at the time.

Hauling Ashe2 votes

As nice as it would be, true damage is just bad for the game in most cases. Honestly, she just needs better movement speed, or a revert of the nerfs to her passive duration. At most make her passive to frosted targets get 120% AD bonus damage instead of 110%.

rtbf2216514121 votes

[{quoted}](name=Titz n Ashe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Njm8lHXp,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-01-05T07:43:07.029+0000)

As nice as it would be, true damage is just bad for the game in most cases. Honestly, she just needs better movement speed, or a revert of the nerfs to her passive duration. At most make her passive to frosted targets get 120% AD bonus damage instead of 110%.

But people will complain she has too much utility and damage when she actually hits 50%.

Hauling Ashe1 votes

Ahri

rtbf2216514121 votes

[{quoted}](name=Titz n Ashe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Njm8lHXp,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-01-05T07:48:02.582+0000)

Ahri

CamilleKalista Riven :> lel

LankPants1 votes

At most make her passive to frosted targets get 120% AD bonus damage instead of 110%.

I'd prefer to see Riot just revert the patch 6.20 nerfs than this.

Just +10% on Q at all ranks, let her Q reset her AA and revert the pretty much net neutral slow changes, or don't, I really don't care. The first two are the important changes that I think need to be reverted, the 3rd really does nothing either way.

xaufi1 votes

If her damage went unchanged and Riot returned a greater duration, do you think excluding the critical strike component would be enough ?

Hauling Ashe1 votes

What do you mean? This version of Ashe has always had the special crit component.

Big Lincoln2 votes

The only thing she needs is that Q nerf from a while back reverted and nerfs to the overpowered AD carries.

I don't know why you think she needs to have % damage, let alone true damage. She already has great DPS; the problem she has is dealing with the current lineup of junglers (all have unstoppable dashes or are Lee Sin) and the current lineup of ADCs having ridiculous burst when they aren't supposed to

I'm okay with 330 movespeed, though. She's not nearly as good at self-peel as she was a long time ago; she could stand to be a little faster.

Hauling Ashe1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Njm8lHXp,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-01-05T07:49:57.096+0000) I'm okay with 330 movespeed, though. She's not nearly as good at self-peel as she was a long time ago; she could stand to be a little faster.

Dang, I remember when I first started playing. "Move swiftly!" she said. Move swiftly she did not.

Big Lincoln1 votes

It was a very long time ago, before I even started playing. There weren't nearly as many champions with dashes or much mobility at all; in fact, Ashe was one of the reasons mobility became so popular because her permaslow was ridiculous.

It's still very obnoxious for immobile melees, but she hasn't been a real issue for a long time, I think.

LankPants1 votes

Ashe was one of the reasons mobility became so popular because her permaslow was ridiculous.

That argument really isn't true. When Ashe was popular in early season 2 a lot of popular champs were people like Udyr, Shyvana ect. The meta didn't really become hyper mobile until later in season 2, oddly enough the first role where mobility became mandatory was ADC. The first shift of the meta towards hyper mobility was when the only ADCs you could play became Ezreal, Graves and Corki.

The reason why hyper mobility became so popular in League is because Riot released hyper mobile champ after hyper mobile champ with no trade offs for 2-3 years straight. It was not because of the ADC who was out of the meta for that entire length of time.

Daxanater2 votes

i dont want elsa coming back and letting go okay? fuck that bitch

SchmidttyGames1 votes

I am okay with this idea, but...

5% per 1000 units is way, way to strong. This would give Ashe the ability to outright execute people in their fountain the moment they respawn. .5% or 1% flat would be more reasonable.

The estimates on the map dimensions are 16,000 tall/wide and roughly 22,500 from corner to corner. That would make a shot from your fountain to theirs proc a 22-23% True Health bonus damage at 1%.

xaufi1 votes

I agree with you there. At the time of writing the thread I didn't know the dimensions of the map. That being said the % of damage would have to be lower but given the fact it is a rather slow projectile that is revealed by champions, wards, minions and turrets while considering travel time.. her ultimate in it's present state seems lack luster.

LankPants1 votes

At 15 minutes, she is riding a ~45% WR and only comes close to breaking 50% around 40 minutes (haha right).

OP.GG, which is more accurate than champ.gg sugests the opposite of this, Ashe has a decent early game and falls off like a rock.

http://na.op.gg/champion/ashe/statistics/adc

Movespeed: 325 -> 330

This is probably a fair buff. Ashe does struggle with some of the mobility in the meta and this probably would help a lot.

Ranger's Focus applies 2% currentHP as True damage while the target is affected by Critical Slow.

I don't think giving Ashe a Silver Bolts like passive is a good idea. Having a utility carry who's very high damage and very hard for tanks to build against is a very bad idea. Ashe having good damage is OK, Ashe having top tier ADC damage is not.

Enchanted C. Arrow: 200/400/600 (5% currentHP for every 1,000 units traveled) passive Right Back to It: if target is executed reduce ult CD by 5% for every 1,000 units traveled)

Ashe's ult is not Jinx's ult. It's a stun first, a nuke second and not really an execute. There's just no reason for this at all.

What I'd do is maybe the move speed buff, that seems OK, but mainly I'd just revert the last pointless Ashe nerf. Buff her Q damage by 10% at all ranks, change her slow back to what it used to be and let her reset her AA with Q. Ashe was in a fine place before this random nerf.

xaufi1 votes

As to the Ranger's Focus suggestion, my thinking for that would be that Ranger's Focus is only available for 4 seconds before the stacks fall off and her Q is unavailable. The secondary passive Critical Slow only lasts for 1 second. That means that to be able to apply that 2% true damage you would have to excel at animation canceling to get the 1 or 2 AAs needed to benefit from it anyways. Clear strengths and weaknesses.

DemainaNyx1 votes

I like that. Not that I want more true damage in this game but she needs something to counter the fact she doesn't get those 1K crits like others ADCs do.

Or maybe add something to her E so it feels useful. Maybe the more ranks you put in E the more bonus damage your passive does or something. Or give it true sight so it can be used during a fight actually.

Honestly I'd love to see an actual AD scaling on her ult. I like the idea of it doing more damage the further it travels, since it's a slow projectile so hitting it should be more rewarding than just a 3.5 second stun. Morgana gets a 3 second snare from hitting you point blank and she's designed to build AP so the damage is going to be high on it, and yet Ashe's Ultimate stuns for less time point blank and scales with AP, which nothing else on her kit scales with... Ok Riot.

Rebonack1 votes

Ashe used to be high burst damage, low sustained damage (for a Marksmen) high utility/CC.

Her remake buggered her niche really hard and drastically improved her weakness, homogenizing her with the rest of the class. Which was, frankly, a really stupid thing to do.

Ranger's Focus needs to go. I would go so far as to say the whole mini-rework she got should be trash-canned.

GULAG 4 U1 votes

They overdid the worlds nerf to her

Swarovsko1 votes

They exceeded with the nefs, just like they did with Taliyah.

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