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sejuani 46% winrate and declining pick rate - can we revert?

Big Lincoln·4/23/2018, 10:50:02 PM·50 votes·12,778 views

even a partial revert would be acceptable since it's been more than a year and you still haven't managed to put Sejuani in a manageable position; in fact, you have more trouble balancing her now than you did before the rework. Just like Galio before her, she was gutted for soloQ play on account of her presence in competitive

All build diversity was destroyed. You go tank, and only tank. No full AP mid, no AP bruiser, no Triforce bruiser -- full tank.
Doesn't even fulfill the niche that was described; "tank that synergizes with melee fighters" became "look at me I can stun you for 5 seconds" almost immediately, and her "niche" is almost never capitalized on (because it doesn't matter.)
Not healthier. Sejuani now deals her damage in burst, which gives you less time to handle her before she pops her E and chunks you, as opposed to pre-rework damage being focused in longer fights.
Equally if not more "un-skillful." Sejuani traded macro decision making for a meager amount of micro in landing the second hit on W. Her major contribution to fights completely vanishes for 10 seconds after using it once for each champion; there is no amount of skill you can display with the champion now that will change this outcome.
Not unique. Sejuani has joined the other reworked initiating tanks as being generic CC blobs with little else defining them from each other besides the kind of CC they're applying or the kind of defense steroid they have. Pre-rework she sat as a middle-ground between a Vanguard and a Diver.

When can we officially chalk this rework up as being shit (something that everyone with common sense noticed before it even came to Live servers) and start working to bring the real Sejuani back?

69 Comments

Spank the Fox4/24/2018, 2:16:13 AM17 votes

Really, Old Sejuani was unique?

She was compared to Amumu. You have a Q dash, W AoE, E moderately spammable and an AoE CC ult. Both had the same playstyles too, just trying to sit on someone as long as possible.

The only validity in your post is she is much more bursty, but the current state of the game doesn’t allow damage over time to succeed. Too much burst, too much mobility.

Teridax684/24/2018, 11:39:29 AM16 votes

Looking back at the Sejuani rework, what ended up upsetting me the most wasn't just the poorly-conceived, poorly-implemented stun stack aura mechanic, but the design rhetoric around it, that ended up being a bunch of bullshit. When it was announced that she'd be getting a rework, what I disliked the most was when the post said she'd have her multi-stun on ult nerfed, on the grounds that it was too powerful to let her be good elsewhere. At the time, while I didn't like the change, I at least thought I understood where it came from, and accepted it as a valid tradeoff for a more interesting kit overall.

Turns out, nerfing Sejuani's ult to make room for stronger effects elsewhere ended up translating to "let's damage one of the most satisfying abilities in the game, so that we can put all of that power into a shitty aura with no real interactivity." Sej's ult did not need to be nerfed, and her E does not in any way need to exist, particularly since it's far worse than her ult in terms of the power it takes, for the little actual gameplay or enjoyment it generates. I genuinely did hope that she'd get properly tuned around a heavy cavalry fantasy, as was promised, but I have no idea how that could have happened when her Q, i.e. the only ability that actually uses her mount, was the only ability left mechanically unchanged. In the end, we players were told a lovely story about what Sejuani could become, only to be given something completely different, to the point where one wonders how the two could have possibly related to each other.

Because of this, I think Sejuani likely needs a proper gameplay update farther down the line, but in the meantime she is likely to be healthier with at least a partial revert. Her W I feel could probably stay in the meantime, as it does have some fun gameplay tied to moving around and landing both smacks, but I think her E aura needs to disappear completely, and her ult needs to be reverted. It also perplexes me that so many tanks have recently been receiving greater AP scalings to let them snowball better, yet Sejuani, whose AP build was well-loved among many players, continues to have absolutely terrible AP scalings. In general, it doesn't feel like she's been handled by people who have truly connected with her, and that lack of connection has reflected itself in her unfortunate design and balancing history in the past few years.

Miudmon4/24/2018, 2:06:39 AM9 votes

Could i just get my ap seju back?

I miss her.

Chembaron Yamada4/23/2018, 11:00:52 PM7 votes

I don't want them to revert her. She became much more fun to play in my opinion and I love it thematically that she freezes enemies and then shatters the ice.

Step Sis Lux4/23/2018, 10:53:34 PM7 votes

yes pls give me old seju back

XxDRAGONsAK47xX4/24/2018, 12:29:28 PM6 votes

Please can we?

Old Sej was so much more fun.

Tribbles Foxfolk4/24/2018, 12:44:15 AM5 votes

Old Sejuani was a clunky mess of confused abilities. She had low sticking power and couldn't do her job, which was soak damage and pressure squishies. Her W was the dumbest ability known to man, infamous for not even working more than half the time and having laughably worthless impact the times it DOES work. Her E was a hilarious joke of an ability; it either did decent damage as Full AP Sejuani or it did fuck-all because you had no AP and the slow was worthless.

I will say her current passive is lame, though, because it's just Aftershock without the shatter damage.

What I want them to do:

She needs a passive, that's the long and short of it. When it's so easy to break her current passive and keep her from regaining it, she might as well not even have one. At the very least, make it a barrier that shatters after taking enough damage.
Revert her E nerfs. The nerfs to her E were stupid since there's no point in maxing it anymore. The stun doesn't last long enough to get a Shatter proc.
Her ult needs to have its effectiveness-over-range equalized. Why does her ult lose potency if you have to use it point-blank? That just seems unfair for a tank that wants to be in your face.
Her Q hitbox feels inconsistent. This is more of a general League problem, as hitboxes are random and do not work as intended. It goes from hitting at max range, even though it didn't look like you touched the sod, to ramming into someone and very clearly hitting but they somehow don't get hit. (Don't lie to me, you KNOW it's a problem. If you say it isn't, you are just wrong.)
Reduce the slow on her W a bit and put it on the first swing instead of the second. Hitting the second swing is annoyingly difficult right now and neuters her damage output if the enemy isn't walking in a straight line.

I Main Swain4/24/2018, 3:02:44 PM4 votes

i will say her w at full build was stupid strong, but that was also before they nerfed health on tank items across the board, when i could get 9k hp on my build. overall the old sej was way more balanced and more fun

Marothennan4/24/2018, 11:22:33 AM3 votes

Her pickrate is going down because she is a boring ass to play as and to play against champ that most people pick just to abuse her when she's broken.

LankPants4/23/2018, 11:54:34 PM3 votes

It's time for something to be done, be it a full or partial revert or a secondary rework to put her back more in line with what she was pre rework. I don't really care what they do, as long as she's moved back towards her pre rework state.

Tündra4/24/2018, 1:13:29 PM3 votes

At the very least pls give back some ap scaling so we can have fun :(

Keevalroy4/24/2018, 2:42:01 AM3 votes

I'll support this if Maokai and Zac are reverted as well.

Blåbæret4/24/2018, 2:24:54 PM3 votes

Ridiculous how much she's been overnerfed. No one gives a shit about competitive.

Kaìju4/24/2018, 3:00:11 AM3 votes

A rioter mentioned some time ago they were looking at changing her some, and from what I remember they thought her W and E were the problems as well as asking Sej players what they liked about new and old Sej. I honestly prefer the old W. It was basic yeah but Riot themselves have said basic kits aren't always bad, which is their whole reason for why they don't want to rework Malphite, because he's popular in China and they have no issue with his kit being very very simple.

Wild Geese4/24/2018, 1:31:03 AM2 votes

Removing 75% of her stun duration was one of the most brutal nerfs I've seen in a long time.

Vekkna4/24/2018, 2:46:47 PM2 votes

Honestly, new Galio feels more like Sej should have felt.

SanKakU4/24/2018, 10:18:23 PM2 votes

I would love a reversion. I've hated the new Sejuani since day one, and I only got down-votes when I tried to explain to people why it was the worst rework the game has ever seen.

Endarfrost4/26/2018, 1:39:02 AM2 votes

I got to D3 one tricking Sej before they destroyed my baby... Give me the old Sej back and I'll get the dual-axe sigil as a tattoo. No bamboozle.

Ξßαη5/4/2018, 5:20:09 PM2 votes

Riot,

Can you find one guy who could say that the new sejuani is funnier to play than the old ?

Because I can't.

Sejvert please. Soon as possible. You did it for LB, I know you can do it for Sejuani. And omg I would pay to play her with the new runes.

Uwhtazn5/23/2018, 3:34:07 AM1 votes

They really didn't had to nerf her W to nerf Sej's wave clear They really didn't had to nerf her E Stun duration because you max this ability 2nd.

But we all know that people either

Ban her until Riot sees this and nerfs Sej
People just don't how to ward against Sej in the laning phase
Learn to kite away from Sej.
Like most people, don't even bother reading Sej's kit.

That what ruins tanks, people (especially adcs) don't know how to play far back against tanks. You know why tanks hurt? Cause you're a squishy target, you don't build health defensive items, that what makes you vulernable!

ßαη5/26/2018, 9:52:09 AM1 votes

Riot wants to buff new Sej for 8.12... They dont get it.

We need a revert. Ive checked on internet everywhere. In majority people want a revert, the only people liking her now are the people who didnt really played her before.

She was perfect.

LordGeovanni4/25/2018, 1:18:10 AM1 votes

I dont know why her ap ratios are so bad. and the worst part about it is that she has her passive its only active for 2 seconds and she has no way to re activate it in combat but her base stats are worse than an adc because of the existence of the passive. Its anti poke but has a much much longer cooldown than most poke combo's in the game

d4rkshock4/25/2018, 9:08:36 AM1 votes

Remember how she was one of the best jg's for a while after the rework in the tank jg meta. Also she isn't that fun. Imo, tanks aren't that fun. It's fun if you have someone who can instantly win the teamfight like Amumu Malphite and then there are tanks that have cc but not anything that's a game changer like Nautilus useful in lane and for getting people who are out of position but not good for winning a teamfight. Sejuani hyst happens to be one of those champions where her innitiation isn't the best because they have a chance to get out and the 3 people that were there may just turn into 1.also in the jg, we are in an assasin/diver meta and Warwick has been killing it for the past 6 months. Why they won't nerf him, idk.