Riot, please reconsider these Tahm Kench nerfs.

THE RlVER KlNG·8/15/2018, 4:42:03 PM·80 votes·17,817 views

Hello. I am THE RlVER KlNG. I am a 400k+ Mastery 7 Tahm Kench main. I have played him since release in every role I can make him work in. Yes, I am hardstuck Gold. However, I still want to talk about why I think these nerfs were clumsy and unfair, and why Tahm's long string of nerfs over the past few seasons have compromised his gameplay fantasy. This is a long post, but I hope Rioters read this and communicate with Tahm Kench players about why they have decided to nerf this champion as hard as they have.

I understand why Riot wants to nerf Tahm, even if I don't like it and think it's biased. World's is coming up and Riot does not like defensive play in professional League of Legends except for when it is Janna or Braum. Tahm Kench W (Devour) is extremely strong in coordinated play. It is one of the most powerful effects you can offer for a team on voice coms - unconditional untargetability for one target at a time means that carries can play more aggressively, because they know that Tahm can save them if they make a mistake or underestimate their burst. Tahm Kench's kit is designed to capitalize off of clutch Devours on both enemies and allies. When he was released, Tahm Kench's Champion Insights page, Rioter ZenonTheStoic noted that many Rioters in internal testing were wary of allowing Tahm to use Devour to save allies.

Let’s start with devouring allies. We knew we wanted the ability to work on enemies, and we were initially pretty hesitant about allowing Tahm Kench to eat his pals. That said, once we tried it out, we realized that “Tahm Kench the Armoured Personnel Carrier” was actually pretty fun. Aside from the risk of trolling, allies will quickly realize how good it feels when a decent Tahm player has their back. He can eat you over a wall, spit you over a wall, and run fast toward the enemy if you're a Tryndamere type looking for a free ride to your soon-to-be victims. As the ally, you can also decide when and where Tahm spits you, after a short lockout period. What’s more, being able to pull an ally out of a fight at will is really strong. It can save allies from abilities like Nami bubbles or Vi ults, and generally allows squishies to do Really Dumb Things and get away with it. This should enable riskier plays, particularly from the kind of high damage/low health champs that usually have to pull away from a scrap, or at least fight from the back.

Note that they really took a shine to the idea of Tahm as a tanky sort of 'carrier champion' - one that could swallow a squishy ally and back off, using Grey Health to sustain or shield damage coming his way. On release, 100% of the damage taken would be turned into Grey Health, and Tahm could heal for a portion of that after backing off. However, his shield he received from Grey Health decayed rapidly and had a much longer cooldown, around 13 seconds, more than double what it is today. This meant that when Tahm used it, he had higher moments of tankiness - higher highs, and deeper lows. You could not simply just pop E whenever you wanted - the sustain was a lot stronger back then, and sometimes you wanted to wait and see how long you could go before it really became crucial. However, Riot has since absolutely gutted Thick Skin. The shield no longer decays, but Grey Health translation from Damage was cut by 30%, and the healing was not compensated. This means that Tahm had been made more squishy over time. Currently, if E is maxed to the fullest and Tahm is allowed to regenerate, a paltry 31% of damage taken will be regained. Compare this to a champion like Pyke, whose passive is better than Tahm's E in almost every way. The issue with Tahm is that he does not feel sufficiently tanky to fulfill his job of an aggro soaker. Especially in this meta, Tahm Kench has lost a signature trait that once made him fun and unique. You almost never let Grey Health decay now, because even though the shield isn't as good as it was before, the healing is infinitely times worse.

Riot also recently removed two mechanics attached to Devour - the movement speed. They took away the movement speed Tahm gains with an ally in his belly while moving away from champions, to prioritize aggressive play. Then, for some inane reason, they removed the movement speed he gains moving towards enemies, because apparently it 'sometimes procs when he's running away too and is surrounded by enemies'. I did not understand this change, suffice to say. Riot continuously punishes Tahm Kench for doing his job, when they designed him with this idea in mind - a tank that lacks initiation, AoE CC, or even reliable CC for that matter, who instead offers unique defensive utility to protect one ally and himself at a time. A quote, from the Champion Insights:

“But Zenon, how is that fair? I just spent all my CC on this guy, we were about to kill him, and then suddenly General Gulp comes in and whisks him away!” Well yes, imaginary FAQ person, but let me tell you about a few things I added in to help balance things a little. First of all, as I mentioned, while Tahm Kench has this pretty swell devour ability, he lacks a lot of the traditional tools that tanks usually carry around. He can’t lock down enemies at will, for instance, and he has absolutely no utility AOE tools that your average punching bag brings to a fight. Secondly, while eating an ally to keep them safe is super clutch, the ability does come with some baked in drawbacks. Its relatively short range means Tahm, who most of the time will be on a support budget and thus not the tankiest man in the game, will have to stand close to your team, or at least close to members of his team who you want to kill. So uh… you can just kill him if you focus him. Lastly, if Tahm Kench does eat his ally, the ability’s minimum duration means you’ll still have a few precious seconds to leverage your temporary numbers advantage!

Here, Zenon lays out why Tahm Kench is allowed to have this kind of power. I am a Tahm Kench main. I will always be biased towards this champion.** I understand that it is frustrating to have your target eaten and whisked away.** I have played this champion for over three years, and believe me when I say I have been on both ends more times than I can count (one more than the other, however). I realize I will never change some people's minds, the same way I'm always going to hate, for instance, Vayne no matter what. But I can still hope others recognize why this is OK in a vacuum, and why Tahm Kench's kit makes sense from a design standpoint, and why repeatedly nerfing what he was originally designed to do in the first place is a bad idea that just drives away people who want to play him (historically, very few. Tahm Kench has almost always had some of the lowest pick rates in the entire game). Tahm Kench has Devour - a tool few other defensive characters can hope to match, besides perhaps Braum. But Tahm also lacks initiation. He cannot start fights, he cannot approach well, and his repeatedly nerfed Thick Skin makes for a poor defensive steroid on an immobile, large-modeled tank. This means he needs something else in order to be useful as a Warden. Tahm has no way to interact with you within or behind a minion wave besides auto attacks. His mana costs restrict Q spam, despite its low cooldown. When he finally DOES go on the offensive, he has one of the most telegraphed and easily kited/peeled approaches in the entire game.

But Riot does not seem to be interested in maintaining any semblance of what Tahm Kench is supposed to do. They want him to play more aggressive, but instead of granting a LOWERED CD on Devour on enemy use, they give it the same cooldown as before. - i.e. halved cooldown means nothing when the cooldown has been doubled. **This means that after this patch, Devour is the same or drastically worse in every situation he uses it. **They even shaved off .5 seconds of his slow for some reason, and scrapped the increased damage on enemy Devour. Hiding these straight nerfs at the bottom of the 'tank buffs' section of the notes was cowardly and wrong.

What exactly is Tahm Kench supposed to do in lane anymore? All meta bot laners and supports have ways of easily stopping Tahm Kench's approach. Whereas before, he could go even or defeat aggro engage/hook supports by judiciously using Devour only when absolutely necessary, now Tahm has to wait 30 seconds before he can do anything at all in lane. For 30 seconds at a time, Tahm Kench will have one ability during the laning phase, should he or his carry be engaged upon. Thresh hook, Blitz hook, Leona E, Rakan W, Nautilus hook, Morgana Bind, Alistar W, Nami Bubble, Taric E.......all of these abilities have drastically lower cooldowns than Devour, and that's just looking at the supports, not even counting bot lane carry threats. By choosing to save an ally from one, Tahm Kench now has nothing, nothing at all to respond with when they do it two more times, possibly earning a kill. And it's not like he just simply can't use ALLIED Devour again afterwards. By eating an ally, Tahm is locked out of fighting any enemy at all for the next 30 seconds. If you thought it was frustrating when Tahm Devoured your CC target, I hope you can have fun now killing them while he Q's you and runs away dejectedly. It's depressing.

Tahm Kench passed under the radar with low win rates and even lower pick rates for like the past 3 years. He got picked in pro play when pick comps were strong - for example, when Malzahar after the mage update was meta - but it's only recently in Season 8 when he started to become a priority. You want to know the reason why he's so desired now? This shitfest of a meta, pardon my French. Tahm Kench is literally one of the only tools pro players (and us normal players too, for that matter) have to try and counter the absurd amount of damage we have in the game right now. Shields, resistances, even damage reduction pale before simply removing someone from the game before they get removed from the game by a Quinn or Talon or Wukong or Leblanc. Tahm Kench is a beast from the meta YOU created Riot, and nerfing him, instead of the things he is good at countering, will only push him out completely. When damage is lower, other picks like enchanters and such can come back in. Scarra said in his big state of the game video that the biggest problem in the game right now is that 1 pick equals death; the example he used is that when he plays Kindred, 99% of the time he has to instantly pop ult if he gets jumped on or CCed. That's true for the rest of the roster, and the tools Tahm Kench can offer to a coordinated team in a meta where the smallest mistake equals death are unparalleled. **Does that mean he is too strong? Technically, yeah. But by removing his ability to counter this meta, you are also removing his ability to function in it. **I probably wouldn't be as mad about these nerfs if champions like Blitzcrank, Alistar, and Rakan weren't all sitting comfortably at the top with large win AND pick rates - the exact sort of champions that are now going to absolutely destroy Tahm and his lane partner because Devour, for some reason, needs to have a 30 second cooldown.

I have zero hopes Riot will read this, and if they do, that they will work with Tahm mains on suitable compensation. Everything I have learned when it comes to Riot's stance on Tahm Kench (2.5 years since last skin!) has led me to be cynical and resigned. I could say I understand what its like to be a Ryze or Azir or Kalista main, but it's a lot different than that. When carries get nerfed for being too efffective in pro play, you can still function on them. They still deal damage, they can still carry, they still have uses. When tanks or supports are nerfed - especially when their durability and utility, the only things they realistically offer- they don't have damage to fall back on. This is why Ornn, Galio, Tahm, Zac, etc. all feel like such shit to play as right now, because they have to secure such an overwhelming lead to be successful, and that process is a much more uphill battle than other champions and causes you to wonder if its even worth it.

90 Comments

Blakiepug8/15/2018, 5:11:41 PM36 votes

I'm glad players are speaking out against these Tahm Kench changes as a Tahm main myself! This patch gives me so little faith in the balance team. I just can't believe they went through with gutting Kench.

TheBentOn38/15/2018, 11:09:42 PM12 votes

323K Mastery on TK.

No idea how they get off thinking that doubling the CD on the only reason to even play Kench was in any way a good idea or justified. A champion I remind you that already had a sub 50% winrate. These changes are going to make him borderline unplayable support. Considering that they nerfed him out of top lane and jungle a long time ago, I have to ask, Where the hell am I supposed to play this guy now? What is the rito approved position for Tahm Kench? Nowhere?

I have to imagine somebody in the balance team lost a game to devour saving a carry recently.

Profirix8/15/2018, 7:30:58 PM11 votes

Thank you for eloquently sharing our frustrations. I agree with everything you have said here. Tahm has no business being a support anymore and on a similar note has no business being a champion in this state. God forbid you use devour defensively, now you are stuck waiting almost half a minute to even use it offensively. What are you supposed to do? Run around and look pretty?

Also I want to point out, enemy devour duration was also nerfed. You used to be able to suppress for 3 seconds at max rank. Now it is a permanent 2 seconds.

ned the kled8/15/2018, 7:23:12 PM9 votes

i don't play tahm myself, but i honestly agree. welp

guess its the end of tahm support if they dont revert these changes

Bârd8/16/2018, 12:26:46 AM7 votes

I just wish they had gone through with the compensation buffs to the damage, so he would at least become viable in top lane, but yeah the live changes suck ass.

Boulderox8/15/2018, 9:25:58 PM7 votes

Also the fact the Taliyah W nerf is a revert from the compensation she got in 8.11 that ripped her out the the mid lane from the Q AOE change to single target.... and now is being reverted...

and was the wall vision that influencial???

DeathBurst8/15/2018, 5:34:36 PM7 votes

TK problems have actually 2 completely unrelated causes:

  1. Ally Devour is too good in organized play.
  2. Thick Skin is too good in Solo lanes.

I'd say that the recent nerf to Ally Devour has practically no impact on Solo Lane TK, it's maybe even a slight buff, so it's just as fine now as he was before. And yes, it's a big nerf for Support TK, but it's a nerf that affects pro-play more than SoloQ, which is exactly what TK needs. I think they are good changes.

And all the quotes from Zenon don't show anything useful. Like yes, Devour is an original tool that he traded against a lot of AoE/reliability that other Tanks get. But that does NOT mean the trade-off was made at the proper rate. Devour might still be too good compared to the things TK traded in exchange, and nothing in the quote goes against that.

Echostormxx8/16/2018, 5:50:18 AM5 votes

I feel like Tahm Kench will be in a shitty spot for a very long time after these nerfs. I have 80 or 90k mastery on him and I'm sad to say I'm not playing him again until he gets buffed/reworked because they may as well have just clicked "delete" on Tahm.

Wild Geese8/16/2018, 1:44:00 AM5 votes

The early nerfs to Tahm were not deserved, when they nerfed his passive and thick skin; those as far as I remember were to address "player frustration" with Tahm, also to kill his jungle and top lane viability. Bad for two reasons...

  1. Players were frustrated? But the champion was new and they hadn't learned to deal with him yet. And he was hardly the most frustrating champ to deal with ..

  2. Meta-enforcement of saying Tahm can be a support and only a support was silly - and had limited his tools in the long run. Now he lacks the offensive tools and the defensive tools.

So basically I think they should return some of his offensive power on his passive, and thick skin. Those changes were not made for pro play.

SpecterVonBaren8/16/2018, 1:08:17 AM4 votes

I agree whole heartedly. I've been playing Tahm since his release but as soon as I saw that the W nerf was going through I knew he was done. What kills me about it is what you mentioned, his previous winning matchups are now losing ones. In the time it takes for his W to come back up after using it on an ally in lanning phase an enemy engage support can do two rotations of their all in. He now, LOSES to engage supports! There is literally no winning matchup for him as a support champ now.

And I would have been FINE with the CD nerf if they gave him other tools he could use in exchange. Maybe rework his ultimate so that it has some actual use in solo Que outside of getting to lane faster or winning harder. Make his E be usable on allies, make his Q have a small AOE at the end. Give him SOMETHING so he isn't a W bot.

doodlebob6668/15/2018, 5:53:39 PM4 votes

I don't think devour is the only reason he is op in pro play his ult is far more useful with comms than it is in solo que nerfings it's cooldown could help shift power into area's where solo que players have an easier time utilizing it

Acanthus8/15/2018, 10:47:15 PM4 votes

100k mastery Tahm here. I haven't played him in some years. I'm sure it's obvious why. He's one of those champions I want to like, but I just can't because they gutted just about every ability on him at some point, even his passive for those of you who remember his hp to damage used to be on his ult and much stronger once it came online. At this point it's like, what is he even supposed to do to contribute?

PapaGreg218/16/2018, 12:30:03 PM4 votes

I'm not a Kench main but I do play him quite a bit. After these nerfs I am going to stop playing him though. These cool downs are way too long.

Waffle Champion8/16/2018, 3:40:48 PM4 votes

I've never even played Tahm Kench in a normal and these changes seem harsh to me. Riot should be updating by tweaking and watching, not kicking a champion down the stairs because they encourage safe play. Sure, playing against Kench/Tristana is annoying, but the thing is, if Kench is stuck, he can't unstick his ADC, it's pretty clear and simple counterplay. I think Kench's W cooldown should be more like 20/18/16/14/12 so that there's a clear window of opportunity for opponents that need an engage and can't get one and it also allows Kench to still be able to protect his AD adequately. They might as well keep the half cooldown on enemy swallow and the 90 Mana to 60 Mana change. This way champions like Rakan or Thresh don't feel like it's impossible to do anything, Shen E is like 15 seconds, Thresh Q is like 18 or 15 on hit, Rakan W is 18, Morgana Q is easy to dodge, so if your ADC is getting hit by that a lot... It's your ADC, not you, Kenchs. Just stop pairing with Tristana, you meanies!!!

Monstermushmush8/16/2018, 7:36:59 AM3 votes

I agree.

Alzon8/16/2018, 3:45:19 PM3 votes

Even as a recently-converted Tahm Kench Top main, I’ve felt a huge difference outside of lane. I can stomp my lanes just as easily as before. The issue is I can’t keep my teammates from running out and impaling themselves on a tree anymore without becoming a stun bot that an Udyr with only E leveled would laugh at for the next 20 seconds. My E is next to useless even at level 18 because the regen is pitiful and the shield has such a short duration, Q gets outranged and dodged so easily, ult locks me out of doing anything for a second after I arrive...

I think the majority of Tahm’s entire power budget is in Devour. Now that a good 40% of its functionality has been removed, his overall power is down by a comparable amount. This is huge. As an immobile tank with unreliable CC, Tahm’s late game was already pretty bad. Now his mid game, a phase of the game where champion abilities are the deciding factor, is gutted too.

The mana cost decrease as compensation is utterly laughable. Top lane Tahm very rarely has any mana problems with just a Corrupting Potion for mana all game. I imagine it’s even less impactful for a support Tahm who doesn’t have to waveclear or scrap constantly and whose items have mana.

SnowDropp8/17/2018, 7:16:59 PM3 votes

330k TK support main here, I echo all of your sentiments River King. I really hope you and others get somewhere with this plea, but as for me, I'm throwing in the towel. TK was the only reason I carried on playing league but now that he's gone I see no reason in enduring this game anymore. Good luck all!

RIP Tahm Kench8/16/2018, 1:36:44 AM3 votes

And here I am playing Jungle Kench and reaping the benefits of 16% cdr on Q level 1 and 25% increase in W damage level 1 with only a short slow duration reduction. People should take a hint that his ally devour is too infuriating to play against on the other team for it to be allowed to be spammable. Not to mention, for me it feels very unsatisfying to relegate yourself to just standing next to your allies and eating them when they get CC'd.

I prefer to be in the thick of the battle getting picks on the enemy carries with Q and setting up easy skillshots on enemies for allies with devour. From the looks of it, that's what Riot wants Kench to be doing too, actually interacting with the enemy.

I really do disagree with the statement that the only reason Kench is played is to prevent burst. In order to make that statement, you also need to ignore the fact that Kench bursts just as hard as anyone else in the early and mid game, even before the damage buff to W. Q > AA (Glacial Proc) > AA > W > Q > AA (Glacial Proc) is both a 50%-75% chunk to a single character, and 2 seconds of 2v1 action on the one you didn't eat.

About the engage support discussion, let me ask this: if Alistar headbutt combos your ADC, or Rakan ults and knocks up your ADC, why is the only answer to let them get the free damage, run away, and be forced to back? Why can't you just counter engage on their ADC and kill them now that all of the CC is wasted?

LordGeovanni8/16/2018, 5:12:25 AM2 votes

I Used to play Tahm Kench. I those movement speed nerfs on W hurt alot another thing that hurt was letting allies jump out of tahm mouth when they are ready I dont mind that they did this change but they need to make spitting things out of tahms mouth not interupt his movement anymore as having idiots on your team killed your chasing potiental. Idk when the removed the W towards enemies movement speed i dropped him as a main before then and again one of the reasons was that allies would just mess up your engage if you ate a fighter and started to run up with them. The change that made me drop Tahm was his Passive damage scaling off of health moving from his ult which he didnt need to stack up to his passive which stacks up for a less powerful version of the same thing has to stack on each person and gets cleansed when he eats some one killing his dueling but the nail in the coffin for me was the nerf to Tank items that happened shortly after his passive change which put a double nerf on the damage and you are less tanky and die more easily.

flibitydoo8/15/2018, 8:04:01 PM1 votes

I have a meager 17k mastery into kench and it's probably over a year since I've last played him.

But I can't ever think of a time when I used ally W, then used W immediately after once it came off CD. Usually for me, it's I cast W, pull a doomed teammate out and then they are no longer in danger. And then they recall and leave.

Like how many times does an ally get hit by a morg binding which will lead to their death so you eat them... only for them to immediate get hit by the next binding morg throws out and you need to immediately eat them again? And if that even is a consistent case, then I feel like your game is in much greater danger regardless of if you could save them or not.