Illaoi small problems to fix for healthier gameplay.

CJSEVEN777··3 votes·689 views
  1. DoTs reducing the time the spirit is out. -I'm not sure if this is intended, but it feels really bad when a singed flips you after you ''E" and the spirit almost instantly disappears because of the ticks for the DoT, leaving you with no real option to retaliate. Maybe adding a very small timer where after an attack happens additional dmg won't reduce the time would help prevent this. 2)Tentacle collision -I've managed to spawn a tentacle next to or in the base gates(the thing only your team can walk through), and I've run into issues where it would become difficult to walk through the gate with the tentacle in the way.
  2. The tentacles don't regenerate hp -I feel like the tentacle hp should be like control wards and regain hp if not killed. It doesn't feel nice when the opponent quickly hits the tentacle and leaves it low so that they could instantly destroy it later if it became a problem. Basically it makes it feel like we can't even retaliate because they can "half commit" to killing it, then finish it off later.

22 Comments

JavelinJoe2 votes

Did not know the tentacles had a collision hit box where they block movement.

Honestly I feel the only buff she needs is for her ult to slam the tentacles once initially. Most of the time you are CC'd or ran away from instantly and just wasted your ult because you could not use W.

loligotboosted1 votes

This I agree with. Why does riot have an ult that doesn't synergize with her kit. She has some of the longest cast times imaginable. It takes a 1-2 seconds to pull spirit, then it takes 1-2 seconds for ult to go, by then you're already like 10 hp [sg-shisa]

CJSEVEN7771 votes

Her kit is based around the tentacle. Her ult spawns tentacles that are faster and gives her less cd on her W. I don't know how this isn't synergy. It sounds perfect to me since she is all about zone control.

CJSEVEN7771 votes

I think this is where playing around you E and ult comes in. This buff would brake her. True it adds immense reliability to your ultimate, but it creates too much dmg if illaoi pulls everything off like she should strive to.

Example: I pull soul out, ult, then w. With this buff thats three slams already. By three slams most people are outright dead. Remember she is a fighter but I would compare her to heimer. Stay in you "tentacle zone" let them come to you.

JavelinJoe1 votes

You 3 slammed a soul... That soul would likely not kill anyone. Now, if you dove in, pressed E, then ulted, you wasted so much time. While the extra damage to that 1 target is very nice to have, it wasted a lot of time.

let them come to you

Also, this almost never happens. You always have to go to them in team fights. Unless it is in lane and they try to gank, even your just your E moves champions away.

CJSEVEN7771 votes

In your comment you were talking about hitting an enemy champion with the ult, so when I said ult in my example I was inferring that illaoi ulted the soul and the champion. Now that I think about it, I was wrong about the three slams. It would be a total of four actually.

I think I should explain also that illaoi is not supposed to be an excellent team fighter. Sure her 5 man ult is something to witness, but that isn't really what her gameplay is centered around. She is all about controlling an area with her "tentacle zones" to force an objective. She should be split pushing to force the enemy to fight her on her turf while her team does something or she should be with her team setting up baron/dragon. Of course there will be team fights that you have to participate in because your team may need you, but just know it is not the best way to utilize illaoi.

JavelinJoe1 votes

Nothing says control like 2 hit tentacles that can be seen in brush and FoW, do nothing unless Illaoi tells them to do so, while within their short range of effect.

CJSEVEN7771 votes

It is control... Of course they can try to kill it to lessen your control, but in doing so they enter your area where you can try to punish them. They won't fight you in a "tentacle zone" because they have the looming threat of getting slammed. Just think of it like heimer turrets. There's an area you don't want to get near or you will get punished, but its possible to kill the threat (turret) easily.

Chermorg1 votes

As someone who loves playing Illaoi (and getting two inhibitors by 18 minutes in :o), I'll offer my opinions on your proposals.

  1. I think this is one of the only things that makes Illaoi counter-pick-able - champions who have any DoT effects (Darius, Teemo, Singed) are really the only counters to Illaoi's E/spirit pull. And even then, a good Illaoi will beat a Darius/Teemo/Singed in lane anyway, so it isn't even really a good counter. I can't honestly see reworking that as it's annoying to deal with but it's another thing that has to be worked around. Keep in mind the spirit already stays a ridiculously long time if you aren't damaged.

  2. I have never experienced this but if you say it's a thing then I'll believe you - I'd recommend sending screenshots/replays of this to Riot in a support ticket and/or on the Bug Report boards on the sidebar so they can look into it and fix it if it's a bug.

  3. Again, I think this is part of the counter-play to Illaoi - champions with autoattack resets by default will have an easier early game against Illaoi (Darius, another Illaoi, Fiora, Nasus, etc.). If they regrew health, it would make it even harder for champions without AA resets to kill the tentacles. Plus, the respawn rate is like 20ish seconds (idk really i have the indicator for time remaining on so I never really knew the base time lel) so you'll be able to keep em up easily enough.

All in all, I'm quite surprised that she hasn't gotten any nerfs recently - the counterplay really isn't that easy to pull off compared to other champions that have gotten nerfed already. This is all just my lowly opinion though, and I'm glad you're actually thinking about these things.

CJSEVEN7771 votes

I'm surprised i got fast feed back. I never really post on these, thanks. However, I still think my reasoning for 1 and 3 still stand .

  1. I would have to disagree about saying those counters aren't good counters. They have everything illaoi despises. Tank mobility and DoT. On an even skill level it would definitely be difficult. Also, of course the spirit lasts super long (10secs) if undamaged. They are supposed to "move." It's a pretty slow ability and the enemy deserves to get punished if illaoi manages to hit it, after all illaoi loses half her damage without the spirit out. The point was that these DoT champs almost completely negate illaoi's E (half of her damage) rendering her useless and needing to run away or worse die running. Im talking down to like 2 seconds, which is not enough for your tentacle to slam after you w.

  2. Tbh two auto attacks is not very difficult to pull off, even without a reset ability. Mid game there are also those adcs that i try to punish but they hit it once, run, hit it again later. I'm more pushing this idea because of leaving the tentacle at 1 hp so that it's easy to kill. Imagine pulling a soul to only have the enemy auto attack the 1 hp tentacle as its slamming down completely negating your dmg then walking out of soul radius. It happens too often.

Chermorg1 votes

I really do not want to sound like I'm tooting my own horn here. But the big problem with Illaoi is that she can go a very negative KDA and still carry an entire game with her split pushing and sustain abilities. I think that if Riot were to do anything to buff those, it'd make games with her in them very hard to win.

I could see a slight buff to the DoT - maybe say that it ticks down to no less than 50% of original time. Or say that DoT only counts for one "stack" of time every 1.5-2 seconds. But at the same time, it really would make it harder for those counters to actually counter her.

Maybe instead of allowing regen on the tentacles, just increase their health - either at the beginning of the game or over the course of it?

CJSEVEN7771 votes

Three hp would never make it through, it's too much. Illaoi can do those things when behind "if" emphasis on "if" the enemy team simply does not know how to play around illaoi's kit. Too be frank her kit is so easily dodgeable if you know what your doing, which I would say some don't, but we should be balancing around her potential not the potential against those that don't understand her. I could say I could easily win games with her, but when I'm versus someone who understands her you can easily see how outclassed she is.

Illâoi Evê Siôn2 votes

Everything Illaoi does has counterplay.

CJSEVEN7771 votes

You're not wrong, but that's not what this post is about...

Illâoi Evê Siôn1 votes

It's in response to him dismissing your ideas because they take away counterplay/picks. She has enough of those (I think she has like 15 counterpicks top lane?).

CJSEVEN7771 votes

Oh my bad, I don't post here often so your comment looked like it was a stand alone to me. Sorry, I feel so bad now since you were backing me up.

KVbqbFsC8e1 votes

There is no way for Illaoi to have "healthy" gameplay without a rework. Nobody ques for League to play a tentacle dodging minigame.

CJSEVEN7771 votes

Title should be "smoother."

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

The whole tentacles regening HP I disagree with. It's already so simple to bait people who try to land an attack on tentacles, if the strategy of leaving all tentacles at 1 HP were removed, Illaoi's zone control would be far stronger than a main can already make it out to be.

DoT I agree with because it's far too punishing to just take a slight tap from singed/darius then take uncontrollable follow up damage rendering E useless. Done that to so much illaoi for a free trade. If it were more than a handful who could do it, I would disagree with it needing fixing, but it's literally only darius/singed/teemo (Excluding cassi because hers would keep you from action anyways due to grounded)

Collision for tentacles needs fixing.

CJSEVEN7771 votes

Usually people just hit them when you are farming. If they were forced to hit it twice, you could react more and punish them, but if they can decide to hit it once now and once later the punish time is almost no existent. This problem become even more impossible when your opponent has range. Causing the need for 2 hits could potentially make her less useless vs range as well.

PopcornBunni1 votes

These won't address the principle components that make her gameplay unhealthy. She has horrible roaming and fairly binary matchups, making life hell for melee opponents but being worthless against any character with range.

The DoT change I agree with for the opposite reason- High damage dealers with sizable cooldowns, like tanks with slow autos and %health damage, can't break the spirit minigame nearly as well as they should. Make the spirit timer tick down based on damage dealt, not number of attacks.

Decrease the tentacle spawn timer to let her roam and set up further reaching gardens, and add a timer that prevents them from regrowing at the same spot immediately, to let melees that have a hard time getting close enough to them actually be rewarded for thwacking them during the laning phase. (15 seconds, decreased by 5 seconds for every rank of R).

Have E deal some raw damage to minions or monsters it hits, causing tentacles in range to slam over the area. The idea being that the test of spirit automatically determines beings without spirits fail the test immediately.

Have W's base %health damage increased by 1 at rank 1 and by .5 each extra rank (3/3.5/4/4.5/5% health -> 4/5/6/7/8% health). This is to compensate for the tank update shifting tank items from granting health to granting resistances. Poppy got a similar change to compensate recently, going from 7 (14) to 8 (16) % health damage on her Q (with both hits). Maybe lower the scaling %health damage go from 2% per 100 AD to 1.5% per 100 AD since the higher base damage would let her build a bit tankier without giving up much damage.

She'd probably need a little more to make laning against her better for melee opponents, but the damage-based spirit release and tentacles not respawning right away might be enough additional counterplay, and the faster ordinary tentacle spawn rate would let her do much more in team fights, where she is currently abysmal.

CJSEVEN7771 votes

Welp since this post's title has been giving people the wrong impression I should clear up what I meant. I meant for it to be a post to make her mechanics better than they are now because of the things i had listed. Maybe it should say "smoother" instead of "healthier." You have quite a lot of ideas there, but I do not believe riot intends to change illaoi drastically. How she is now is intentional.

As for the living hell for melee champions I would have to disagree. It is hell when they get their soul pulled, but that's illaoi's point. If u can't dodge a slow ability then you deserve it. For tanks they are more likely to get hit, but it is more of an annoyance than absolute death. The damage they receive won't hurt them too much and they could simply walk away without losing much. Also, being a tank, they could set up for easy ganks if illaoi is pushed and simply cc her to while the jgler finishes her off(she has no escape). For a mobile melee, they just shouldn't be pulled and if they are, they usually have lots of mobility to run away. Illaoi's E is a long cool down and very punishable.

For your passive change, it changes illaoi for what she is. She is meant to slowly gain control over an area and force others to fight her on her own turf. She is not a roamer in anyway. If you want a team fight to go well your only option is to bring them to your "tentacle zone" or prepare one in advance.

The only control she should potentially have over her passive is the ability to toggle it. I feel this wouldn't add too much power to her kit and would help illaoi players properly position the tentacles instead of being at the mercy of the cd. Terrible placements could destroy laning phase if the enemy decides to leave it untouched.

For your E change, it seems interesting. I'm not sure how helpful it will be since u want to hit them, but I guess seeing it just fizzle out is sad to see. It might lead to unwanted pushing of the lane, but idk.

For your W change, I really don't think it needs to be touched. She isn't a tank so the buffing of bases shouldn't happen. The ratio is good because she will be building AD.

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