We need a middle ground between the current meta and ardent meta for supports and marksmen

ModKnightsKemplar·12/1/2018, 6:19:33 PM·45 votes·14,288 views

I believe that defensive tools are the answer, and that's an idea that Meddler hit on in a recent post, as well. But I'd like to put a slightly different spin on it. I accept that League is a team game, and if you want to have an effective marksman, you have to peel for them and protect them. That's the supports, job, is it not? But the fact is, there aren't interesting tools for supports that help them peel for the adc.

So the problem, I believe, doesn't actually have to do with marksmen. It has to do with supports. As others have pointed out in other threads, marksmen viability varies wildly with which supports are viable, and that in turn affects the rest of the map. The reason for this is, partially, the pigeon-holed itemization for supports. Support itemization, particularly for enchanters, trends towards offense.

This leads to the situation where it's "who can blow up who first." And I think the support tier list reflects that truth, as well. If you organize supports by tier on Lolalytics, here are the top 5:

  1. Taliyah
  2. Thresh
  3. Zilean
  4. Brand
  5. Zyra

Yeah, I realize that shield/heal power is a stat that exists, but the data supports that it isn't particularly effective. Top 5 supports are all catchers and/or pokers; the implication is that you can't do much about it as an enchanter or a tank.

We know that big, instant shields are really not healthy. We've been down that road, and we know where it leads. This is not a request to re-buff heal/shield power. But couldn't we introduce some itemization that will protect a marksmen in a more healthy way? Knight's Vow is a particularly standout item to me as a choice that isn't overly strong, but does allow you to protect your carry and be rewarded for that. We need more of that, especially in the laning phase where marksmen are so vulnerable to these aggressive supports that can deny them farm and kill them with a couple of spell rotations.

Zeke's Herald and Ardent are cool, but their unique effects give a carry more damage. If you get ahead in a lane where two people can buy items that increase an exponentially scaling class's damage output, isn't it common sense that will lead to a snowball problem? On top of that, how is Ardent supposed to make me feel better playing enchanter? That's just an item tax that makes my carry feel like more of a badass. I feel great on a support when I make a clutch save. That's a high that enchanters ought to have every game, and right now, I submit that they don't. More often than not, marksmen survive and die based on other's play, and the support is just there to buff their damage, throw them a shield, and hope for the best.

The key is to make defensive items that aren't brainless. The complaint that players had both playing as and against ardent Janna a year ago is that the strategy took no skill. Having 90% uptime on a shield that also gives your carry offensive stats is not healthy, which is exactly what Ardent did. But defensive items that require skill to use effectively would be a real game-changer. It would make support more fun to play, and it would make playing marksman feel like less of a crapshoot.

If I'm in top lane, sure, I don't want my fate tethered to the adc all the way across the map. I totally agree. But I'm playing Janna or Taric, I see no problem with expecting that I'm going to play with my adc. It's possible to lean harder into those defensive tools so that "real" supports actually stand a chance in a meta like this.

103 Comments

Death by Glamour12/1/2018, 6:32:32 PM18 votes

we need a lot of champs to have their damage toned down, else we will be stuck in the endless cycle where adcs go from being useless to overbearing

the mobile bruiser assasins particularly need to be toned down

Hayaishi212/1/2018, 7:17:58 PM9 votes

Tbh ardent meta was not even ADCs fault. In 8.11 Riot gutted them all instead of slowly toning them down and that is why we are here. Why couldn't Riot start with making the lane sustain weaker? but no they had to gut lane sustain, gut itemization, gut base stats all in the same patch.

D357R0Y3R12/1/2018, 7:15:26 PM8 votes

I can't believe this post gets upvoted

No matter who you're putting in your list, Ardent meta had a fucking denegerate lvl of gameplay with supports running around and pressing one spell to win the teamfight

No, just no

x Wyvern x12/2/2018, 12:15:25 AM5 votes

This is one of the big reasons i stopped maining support after years of playing it, in particular, enchanters, i have 400k mastery points with nami, to the point i was OTP with her in S7, i played a lot her because i loved her playstyle, healing, saving others and making "plays" with her, yeah right she is not a playmaker but i felt that way with her.

In preseason 8 i was confused about the damage and my winrate went from 86% to close 50%, heal? the adc? but he is full hp, if i heal him he will die anyway because its a one shot meta, and even right now the damage is that high that its the same thing.

Enchanters right now feel like minions, because they are super super weak for no reason and can't help someone survive, they only provide cc, no damage, no healing at all, no shielding at all, just... they are there, again, thats how i feel them, and you can see the winrates how they dropped.

This leaded me to change my main role, even if i didnt want, to mid, and thats what I play now because I cant enjoy the champions i love (Except Neeko, she is an exception for me).

So what you suggested i agree with.

They are the only class that didnt receive a rework when they needed it really hard, supports in other mobas and other games are way stronger.

#PleaseMakeEnchantersGoodAgain

Roxãs12/1/2018, 7:03:30 PM5 votes

what kind of board group is "herald"?

Meritas12/2/2018, 2:54:14 AM3 votes

I don't like the idea of relying too much on an item to be "an actual support". If a game goes wrong, Janna can still knock people up and slow them down. But if you don't have gold for a key item.. well, you get my point.

Winterkill12/2/2018, 4:52:50 AM3 votes

There is a reason the Ardent Censor meta was terrible. It doesn't need to come back in any capacity. The problem with Enchanter Supports is the lack of an identity for older ones. A Karma, Janna, Lulu, Nami, Soraka and Sona cannot be compared to a Support like Taric, Rakhan, Pyke, Thresh, Braum or anyone else. You want to know why the first set of Supports are so bad? They all practically have the same kit with the same function which is one heavy hitting damage move, one heal/shield, and a speed steroid that increases movement speed. I will say the only thing that makes a Karma, Lulu, Nami, Soraka, and Sona kit different are their ULTS . . . but even that is a far stretch.

Riot Games needs to start working on identities for champion as opposed to creating the same identities for every older Support.

BestPudgeNA12/2/2018, 3:31:54 AM1 votes

{quoted}

supports by tier on Lolalytics, here are the top 5:

  1. Taliyah

Yikes

Hammermancer12/2/2018, 1:45:04 PM1 votes

The way i take that is you want more ardent meta

Ardent meta = you want to be invincible and right click people to death in a competative team based strategy and skill game

how about you pick up a real class like divers, or skirmishers, slayers, battlemages, you know.. classes that are actually skillful

Mmmm Preaching tthe truth and predicting the downvotes