Boards›Gameplay

Enchanter update for next preseason?

Dunal·3/5/2017, 10:03:30 PM·27 votes·2,399 views

I feel like it's the next best candidate after the Vanguards.

Karma Sona Lulu Nami being the big four for this.

They're all too general when it comes to support. Early poke in lane that transitions to basic shield/healing utility. None of them are all that different from each other and share the exact same niche for the most part. And when one is stronger than the other (currently it's Karma) there's very little reason to use any of the others (Unless Karma is banned -- then next best one is Nami).

Honestly with Karma's current dominance as far as support mages go, and Lulu's showing of the same thing in the past, this update may be due. They are all very jack-of-all-trade supports that need more defining. Sure, Nami is a bit better at CC, Karma is a bit better at Poke, Lulu is a bit better at single target protection etc... but I feel that they need to be pushed more towards a niche to give a stronger reason to pick each of them. Which is the whole point of these updates.

@Meddler do you feel this is appropriate or is there any other updates that feel more due after the next one?

I honestly see a lot of potential in these champs. Karma or Sona in particular I can see becoming Invoker-type champs. Using mantra or different songs combinations to unlock different abilities depending on what their team needs. Nami could have empowered abilities in the river to be the 'objective based' support. And Lulu could double down on protecting single allies etc...

Thoughts? I also brought this up in the past, but I feel like with these updates clearly being something Riot is doing quite often, it's worth bringing up again. This is a very good candidate for the near future.

51 Comments

LostFr0st3/5/2017, 10:13:08 PM10 votes

Depending on how they land after the tank update adjustments to base stats and items, divers still have super high priority for the preseason update.

Möral Support3/5/2017, 10:15:08 PM7 votes

I think that Nami and Lulu are very unique champions and should be left alone. However I would love to see a rework of Karma, Sona, and even Janna.

IxtaliKing3/6/2017, 12:41:32 PM5 votes

If there were to be an Enchanter update I think Janna Karma Sona and maybe Lulu would be the big updates.

Janna Because she needs to be more interactive, and her kit doesn't fully deliver on the potential of a wind champ. Maybe Zephyr can be integrated into her passive and she get a new W which demonstrates her wind powers more.

I think it would be cool if her W was an expanding AoE slow zone that dealt damage over time, and had some kind of interaction with her Q which rewards aggressive plays. Having her strength lie in peeling, but encouraging offensive plays (particularly in lane) would be good for her I believe.

Karma Because she's been pretty much confirmed to get changes in the event of an Enchanter update. Karma really needs depth, it's cool her being a bit overloaded because she's "The Enlightened One", but there has to be appropriate risk/reward. Karma's situation is unique because she originally had some interesting things in her kit, the problem being their execution and being ahead of their time (her old tether mechanic).

For Karma I'd personally love to see an updated version of her shield bomb return, but with a delay and a bit more focus on the AoE ms boost than the shield. Not entirely sure what her shield bomb would look like with a delay, perhaps a smaller shield/haste on the target for 1.5s, which then explodes it's full AoE shield/haste values and damage. For her RW I think some kind of ally tether function would be good, especially if there were a way to make her old "clothesline" mechanic work.

Sona Because she doesn't really work in high elo. I think Sona's concept is cool, but it's execution is lacking. I've seen people on here talking about giving her the "invoker" treatment, while I'm not sure what that would look like, it sounds awesome. Much like Karma, I think it works with Sona's theme to have quite a loaded kit, but for that they'll have to lose some of their accessibility. I'm pretty sure one of Riot's goals with her would be to increase her skill cap, and give her kit more appreciable depth. I no ideas as to what kind of changes she should get, so I'll refrain from making suggestions.

Lulu Is a maybe because a lot of people seem to want Lulu to be able to solo lane, but Riot won't let her be good at it because she has too much utility (particularly for top lane). Lulu is pretty unique, interactive and is good at what she's meant to be good at, but who knows.

MisterShameless3/6/2017, 7:14:55 AM4 votes

Until they decide to rework Karma, I really hope they take the advice of vet karma players on what to do with the current Karma to both improve her solo laning and support role, while also improve her game health because the current shield bot version of Karma is a disappointment. Especially when they're aiming nerfs towards her solo laning and not her support role which is the source of a lot of her game health issues.

Anonagon3/6/2017, 5:53:43 PM4 votes

I think an Enchanter update could be very useful, though I wouldn't necessarily put it before a Diver update. I think that all these champions blend together a lot despite having really obvious unique qualities. Karma is battlemage-esque with low cooldown mid-range damage and self-protection effects. Lulu's W and E abilities have duality, and Pix also is a unique but unexplored mechanic. Sona has her auras. Nami is a squishy CC machine. I think all these elements should be played up fairly heavily in any future enchanter update (I don't really play any of these champions besides Karma, so feel free to disagree with my personal assessment of the others).

Swarovsko3/7/2017, 12:34:08 AM3 votes

Sorry but I don't think Nami and Lulu should be there. They should rework Janna Soraka Sona making them more interactive. Karma needs to gtfo of bot lane and be the battle mage she was supposed to be.

SpecterVonBaren3/6/2017, 6:49:01 AM3 votes

Add Janna to that too, in fact, she's more deserving of a rework than Nami or Lulu.

Also, "Nami could have empowered abilities in the river to be the 'objective based' support." Fuck that shit, I already lost Skarner to that gimmick, I don't want to lose my favorite champion in the game to it too.

Jeddy0173/6/2017, 4:52:48 AM2 votes

Actually it's most likely being Divers next. Riot was debating whether to do Vanguards (tanks) or Divers for midseason. Obviously, they chose Vanguards leaving Divers for preseason later this year. It be kind of dick-ish to push divers back again.

Afters Divers, it pretty much up in the air & free game. Maybe Enchanters will be hit in midseason 2018

Azteryz3/6/2017, 4:50:03 AM2 votes

they said initially that divers would be the next update

considering

the champs you listed sure are too general but the point of the updates is to further up the thematic feel of each champ (or give champs an actual theme)

and divers like

Aatrox XinZhao MonkeyKing Nocturne Pantheon have been in the shitter potential wise/gameplay wise/health wise for years (i dont feel spooky with noc :c )

plus LeeSin would be on that list for small changes (fingers crossed)

enchanters is honestly the next thing i can think of after tho

LadyRenly3/6/2017, 1:45:40 AM2 votes

Sona should be left out because she's meant to be a full ap assassin

Death by Glamour3/5/2017, 10:26:12 PM2 votes

On karma - riot has to decide whether she is to be a solo later or support. Both are corralled into using there Mantra for the one ability.

Also new model or the older one back, she needs her iconic fans back.

I do not disagree that we are long overdue a support rework especially thr items that they commonly use.

Doozku3/6/2017, 2:03:21 PM2 votes

I think enchanter update is a really good idea, but I'd rather have it for next years mid season just because riot have already delayed the driver update that they were talking about a few months ago.

ModKnightsKemplar3/6/2017, 1:59:31 AM2 votes

Support needs a pass in general.

You're hitting on a good point that I think has gotten passed over a lot. I think support needs a spot in this game that's much more well defined and necessary than the current support system.

But, you're right that these 4 are similar. I noticed it in my ARURF game with Sona/Lulu on the same team. I think divers are after vanguards, probably, but I wish they would make a spot for supports soon. Needs work.

sirwaterfles3/6/2017, 6:50:25 PM2 votes

i have been expecting divers ever since juggernaut. The only one that is in a somewhat decent state is vi all the rest have mayor issues.

hhaavviikk3/7/2017, 8:15:52 AM1 votes

people talk about giving janna more interactivity but in what way? she's supposed to be a anti-diver, she is supposed to not do shit and just hug the ADC, what interactivity can you bring to that?

LordGeovanni3/6/2017, 3:20:39 AM1 votes

these patches updates and reworks all take too long to be implimented they obviously arent trying to keep the same customers. when you are basicly saying we know class 1 2 and 3 are largely unplayable please wait for 2 years for me to get to all three. not to mention they break game interactions when every they release something new and that is largely the reason why they supposedly take so long so that it doesnt happen.

Hige3/6/2017, 3:08:13 PM1 votes

uhm... activate downvote shield

First and foremost, the next class update has been hinted to be divers but after that one an enchanter update could be beneficial, I agree, though, I don't see those 4 as overlapping champions, like, at all :S nor are they generalist in any kind of way let me explain my reasons:

-Being enchanters all of them have a heal/shield, though each one of them have very specific use cases or "niches" if you will

-Karma happens to be tankiest on that bunch, she might seem like a generalist because she has high poke and cc but I think it's been shown enough that best Karma is tanky Karma, as a matter of fact, the cooldown on her shield is far more important than her synergy with spirit visage and says a lot more about who Karma really is supposed to be. Followed by Taric (who is a lot tankier though), Karma is the tanky enchanter

-Sona has the highest damage out of all the enchanters, give Sona a regular enchanter build and she'll still do the most damage out of all the class, she also has heal and cc and that's probably why she feels like a generalist but you pick Sona when you lack damage on your team and when you have the chance to scale by poking like a truck. Sona is the mage enchanter

-Nami is all about slows, she's the Ashe of the enchanters, you pick Nami when you need strong heals and plenty CCs, also when the enemy is vulnerable to slows Nami becomes the perfect fit, you wouldn't pick any other enchanter under these situations. Nami doesn't show much on pro play even though she's probably the most balanced enchanter in existence, this is because her kit is pretty unreliable and pro play is all about low risk. Nami is the pure enchanter and an exemplar of how the class should be (more on this ahead)

-Lulu is an odd case, normally you'd say that Lulu IS the generalist enchanter but in reality she's just the duelist enchanter which is an odd combination, the duality of her spells allows her to be seriously dangerous for extended fights, her best case though is as a counter initiator. I like to call Lulu the buff/debuff enchanter

So as you can see, all of them might share some similarities because they are after all enchanters but they play a lot different from each others, at least in the hands of someone who understands their strengths and weaknesses... there is, however, one enchanter that is a generalist and that has been pushed too far into the role:

Soraka

-Soraka could be designated as the healer enchanter but... all of the enchanters have heals that rivals hers... and they also have methods of survival that far outweigh Soraka's, yes if you Q someone as they dive, you might survive with a sliver of health but compared to CC or even bursting damage, Soraka's performance is simply lacking. It doesn't help that all her scaling is on her heal and that grievous wounds makes you half effective while you kill yourself all the same :S Soraka lacks damage in exchange for stronger heals but... the other enchanters have damage AND heals/shields, as it currently stands, there's no point in picking Soraka but as a pubstomper

I think there is something awesome about the enchanter class, playing it correctly is incredibly rewarding because they kind of have a bit of everything but they only shine when played correctly, Nami for example has very little damage on her kit but if ignored she packs a punch, I can't count how many times I've killed enemies who think is a good idea to dive a lonely Nami, that said, Soraka is the other side of the spectrum, she's been pushed too far as an enchanter and as a result all she can do is heal, even if you build heavy AP all you can do is heal.

If there is to be an enchanter class rework, Soraka needs to be first in line and IMO, the only one :S

Earl Eulrich3/6/2017, 6:12:43 PM1 votes

supports do a lot of work as a concept (vision game is just really bad right now and itemization for the class is broken and boring) - but support champions/enchanters are still doing very well on that role. Just check winrates, the highest mage support currently is brand, and he´s barly in the top 10.

ƒrenet ƒrame3/6/2017, 7:32:36 PM1 votes

Don't. Touch. My. Lulu. Champion is most balanced she has been in a long time. Just leave her be please....

paisy3/6/2017, 7:44:20 PM1 votes

They'll probably do it to avoid touching Aatrox in a diver update

Golden Tager X3/6/2017, 8:46:33 PM1 votes

Divers are next, hopefully skirmishers after that (seriously it is loooooooooooooooong overdue with them)

I feel like skirmishers have been this weird class that are completely and utterly unstoppable 1v5 carries when they are meta/ahead, but when they aren't, oh boy, they suck ass badly.

Take a look at Aatrox, when he was good, he was overbearing af, now he is useless and literally a worse Xin. Jax Is the model that skirmishers need to follow imho. He has clear cut periods of power, a strong reliance on auto attacks, and defensive abilities. A skirmisher is like the melee carry that the game needs, they would allow juggs to actually be carries for your team because guess what. Juggernauts love fighting most skirmishers because since skirms are melee that means that the lack of mobility a jugg has is made up for because they still have to get close to fight them. So that way carrying goes Jugg>Skirm(until the latest of games in a few cases)>Ranger>Jugg

So we get ourselves a nice little counter triangle. And it fixes alot of problems too since skirms and juggs make assassins want to kms.