I'm Still Furious about Sejuani.

Snow Taradien·10/5/2018, 1:03:57 AM·71 votes·18,759 views

I hate what they did to Sej, so much.

Not only did they change the flow of how she played, making her into the single clunkiest "tank" in the game, to the point where I, a Sej Main from before her changes literally can't even play the champ I loved anymore. Nobody even touches her.

From a design standpoint the changes make no sense, especially for someone of her class.

Sejuani was a strong engage "utility" tank, in the same class as Maokai and Zac who were both worked on during the midseason 2017 patch.

However her changes don't work, at all. You shortened her ability dash and made it less effective, gave her a passive that doesnt work in combat, on a champion who was designed to moshpit and fight for extended periods (SHES A TANK YOU GUYS DO YOU KNOW WHAT THAT MEANS?)

Even her very first iteration, her key component in her kit was her ability to lockdown and maintain control in a fight that dragged out over time, providing a strong frontline for her team.

Were gonna skip over O.G Sej here in favour of the newer Sej, and compare her directly to her post "Tank Update" iteration which is, pure and utter garbage.

Before: INNATE: Sejuani gains 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 bonus armor and 10 / 15 / 20 / 25% Slow Resist for 2 seconds upon damaging an enemy with an ability or a basic attack (stacks up to 3 times for a 6 seconds maximum duration, afterwards refreshing with further damage applications)

Ok. So what this says is that once Sejuani enters a fight, she gets stronger and more able to deal with her opponents, which fits her character perfectly, modelled after her brutality and tenacious nature, her desire to push to win fights and brawl it out to the bitter end. It fits her warlike and oppressive personality and thematics flawlessly as well as play an important role in what makes her work as a tank.

After: FROST ARMOR: Sejuani receives Frost Armor if she hasn't taken damage from large monsters and enemy champions in the last 12 seconds, lingering for 2 seconds after taking damage.

Sejuani Frost Armor Frost Armor engulfs BristleSquare Bristle in True Ice, becoming immune to slows and gains 20 / 70 / 120 (+ 100% total armor) bonus armor and 20 / 70 / 120 (+ 100% total magic resistance) bonus magic resistance.

What this means is outside of battle Sejuani gets a boost to her resistances and slow immunity. That also means that, due to the way it works, on paper she can hit malphite levels of tank stats! Great right? But none of it matters because as soon as she enters combat by any means (Read: what a tank is supposed to do) she loses it. That means if an Ez hits a Q or Ult or anything across the map? Even if she's doing nothing and minding her own business, now she has to wait 12 full seconds before she can engage again. Completely removing her ability to tank for her team if she doesn't burn everything within those 2 seconds, and then after they're up? She's a sitting duck with no means to do anything because she blew everything. Her cooldowns are massive. Also, Sej isn't stoic? She shouldn't be sitting outside of battle unfazed by the world. She's a powerful angry woman who goes out for blood, not someone who sits and accepts the world going by. Thematically misses the point completely.

But we're not done yet, Riot in their chase towards more damage, added a third part into her kit. ICEBREAKER: Enemies stunned by Sejuani are Frozen. Sejuani's basic attacks and abilities against Frozen enemies consume the effect to deal 10 / 15 / 20% of their maximum health as bonus magic damage, capped to 300 against epic monsters.

Let me repeat that one more time. "Deal 10 / 15 / 20% of their maximum health as bonus magic damage."

Why does a pure utility tank like Sej need this? Its damage is also capped against Monsters so its not useful for farming in any capacity. Only good for champ damage. She's a jungler and you made it so she has a tool thats only useful against champions, and does way too much damage for what a tank does.

Her old damage output was fine where it was, why did she need to have assassin levels of burst added in? She's literally a tank! This was the TANK UPDATE.

Next is her Q, all you did was reduce its damage and effectiveness, and made its cooldown longer.

Ok great, her star ability nerfed to a point where its now a lategame only utility spell, FORCING you to max it out and stack cooldowns for what amounts to a mediocre knockup that does nothing.

Moving on.

W! This one is literally the worst and I am still ripping my hair out over it.

Before: Flail of the Northern Winds RANGE: 350 COST: 40 / 35 / 30 / 25 / 20 MANA COOLDOWN: 11 / 10 / 9 / 8 / 7

**FIRST CAST: Sejuani's next basic attack deals bonus magic damage to all enemies around the main target (capped at 300 against minions and monsters) BONUS MAGIC DAMAGE: 4 / 4.5 / 5 / 5.5 / 6% (+ 3% per 100 AP) of target's maximum health

SECOND CAST: After landing the enhanced attack or upon reactivation, Sejuani rotates her flail about herself for the next 4 seconds, dealing magic damage to nearby enemies every second.**

So this does two great things. Sej can buffer this with her q to land an instant auto attack or use it for a quick reset, to allow her to apply her passive quickly in a scuffle and take camps more quickly and effectively.

But the real star of this ability was the 4 second Sunfire effect that scaled with her primary build stat, Health.

「 MAGIC DAMAGE PER SECOND: 10 / 17.5 / 25 / 32.5 / 40 (+ 1 / 1.5 / 2 / 2.5 / 3% maximum health) (+ 15% AP) 」

So on her first attack she got a total of 6% (up to about 30% if she went full AP) max health damage against her enemy target, and then got to burn them and their team.

This all fits into her prolonged fighter identity and utility as a tank perfectly, while allowing her to safely farm and clear her camps.

After: Winter's Wrath TARGET RANGE: 600 COST: 65 MANA COOLDOWN: 9 / 8 / 7 / 6 / 5

**ACTIVE: After a 0.25-seconds delay, Sejuani swings her flail in a cone in the target direction, dealing physical damage to all enemies hit and knocking back minions and monsters.

PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 / 40 (+ 20% AP) (+ 1.5% maximum health) She then lashes out with her flail after 0.75 seconds in a straight line in the same direction, dealing additional physical damage and Slow icon slowing all enemies hit by 75% for 0.25 seconds.

PHYSICAL DAMAGE:» 30 / 65 / 100 / 135 / 170 (+ 60% AP) (+ 4.5% maximum health) Sejuani can move freely during Winter's Wrath. Both swings will strike in the cast direction, but their hitboxes follow Sejuani's movement.**

So... its the exact same ability as Xin's new W, and the new Rengar Q that got reverted recently.

It doesn't fit her thematically outside of being an attack with her flail (But it doesn't look like it), but now gives her something she never had before in such a wide quantity.

Mixed Damage.

The cooldown is also longer, its a hard to aim and use skillshot that feels awful, clunky and unrewarding.

But the real clincher to why new Sej Sucks? Well remember that passive thing they added? 20% instant max health damage for free?

Well now its a core component of her E and Ult.

Her new E is a two part spell, built around her passive.

Permafrost TARGET RANGE: 750 COST: 20 MANA + 4 Frost Stacks, COOLDOWN: 1.5

So, lets get this straight here.

PASSIVE: Winter's Wrath and both Sejuani's and nearby allied melee champions' basic attacks apply Frost to enemy champions, epic, large and medium monsters, super minions and siege minions for 5 seconds, stacking up to 4 times.

This is basically on paper, identical to Braum's passive. Except only melee champs can use it meaning unless her team has a melee diver she's out of luck to use it unless she's on top of someone permanently. But now she can't do anything because she has no means to slow her opponents, meaning she has to burn her Q, or her W and hit it perfectly on an enemy to get the effect of this passive spell, locking her out of play for most players who aren't good at using her new clunky W.

**ACTIVE: Against an enemy with 4 stacks of Frost, Sejuani consumes all stacks to deal magic damage, knock them back and stun them.

MAGIC DAMAGE: 20 / 35 / 50 / 65 / 80 (+ 60% AP) STUN DURATION: 1 / 1.1 / 1.2 / 1.3 / 1.4 Enemy champions stunned by Sejuani cannot gain Frost for 10 / 9 / 8 seconds.

Permafrost resets Sejuani's basic attack timer.**

So, she has Braum's passive but its weaker and more difficult to apply and effectively use, but also now has to hit an additional key while theyre still in range to apply a knockup and stun.

But because of her new passive, that 80 damage, with a 60% AP ratio is guaranteed to also basically do 20% of their max health as immediate damage.

Lets see Sejuani's old E shall we?

Permafrost RANGE: 1000 COST: 55 MANA COOLDOWN: 10 / 9 / 8 / 7 / 6 PASSIVE: Sejuani's basic attacks, Arctic Assault, Flail of the Northern Winds, and Glacial Prison apply Frost to enemies hit for 4 seconds.

Ok, thats reasonable! Frost was, if you dont know OG Sejuani's original passive, and Frost as it was was a small debuff that applied a 10% slow.

**ACTIVE: Sejuani consumes Frost on all nearby enemies, dealing magic damage and Slow icon slowing them for 1.5 seconds.

MAGIC DAMAGE: 80 / 105 / 130 / 155 / 180 (+ 50% AP) SLOW: 50 / 55 / 60 / 65 / 70% Frost cannot be reapplied on the same targets until 3 seconds after Permafrost's duration ends.**

Wow! A slow that's inline with her motif, Not to say that freezing people solid isn't in her motif as a freljord champion but wasn't that more Lissandra's thing?

It does a decent amount of reasonable damage, and applies a strong slow, good for helping her maintain a fighting chance in mid to lategame pressure situations.

It also had way better range and took skill to use it, timing it correctly for a perfect greedy team wide slow, or singling out a specific priority target to peel for your carry or control the flow of movement in battle. Which right now is really hard to do, since everyone zips around like they're on roller-skates.

But all of this. All of this falls down to the worst part of it all.

The best, most satisfying single ult in the game reduced to a useless joke with pretty effects. That also continues to be nerfed, not because its good but because it allows her to reapply her 20% max health damage immediately, letting her combo out over 40% of someone's max health for literally no effort.

Before:

**Glacial Prison RANGE: 1175 / 225 SPEED: 1350 COST: 100 MANA COOLDOWN: 130 / 115 / 100 ACTIVE: Sejuani throws a True Ice bola in a line, shattering upon colliding with an enemy champion or upon reaching maximum range, dealing magic damage to all enemies in the end area.

MAGIC DAMAGE: 150 / 250 / 350 (+ 80% AP) Enemies in the end area are either stunned for a short duration if the bola hits an enemy champion or slowed by 30% for the same duration if it reaches maximum range. DISABLE DURATION: 1.25 / 1.5 / 1.75**

A super greedy, aggressive ult which plays directly into Sejuani's core design thematics, character philosophy and playstyle.

After:

**Glacial Prison TARGET RANGE: 1300 SPEED: 1350 COST: 100 MANA COOLDOWN: 120 / 100 / 80 ACTIVE: Sejuani throws a True Ice bola in a line, stopping at the first enemy champion hit, dealing magic damage and Stun icon stunning them for 1 second.

MAGIC DAMAGE:» 100 / 125 / 150 (+ 40% AP) The bola deals increased damage, Stun icon stuns for 1.5 seconds and shatters upon collision if it surpasses 400 range, shattering aswell upon reaching maximum range, creating a storm for 2 seconds that slows enemies by 30%.

At the end of the duration the storm shatters the ground, dealing the same damage and Slow icon slowing enemies by 80% for 1 second.

MAGIC DAMAGE: 150 / 250 / 350 (+ 80% AP) The enemy hit by the bola is not affected by the storm's effects.**

So first thing first; no matter what, the ultimate only really works for you if it hits someone and ONLY stuns one person, guarenteed. Which by the way can't be done point blank anymore? It literally doesn't even do its primary effect if its within a minimum range so why bother with it? Which yeah good for picks from a distance, but so was the old one, something Ashe literally does better than her, in every way, from literally across the map. But now if you miss you have a slow field that does literally half the damage her old ult did, which requires them to stay in the area for a full two seconds to even HOPE to do any damage with it.

30% slow isnt gonna do that.

Oh oh and, the person hit who got stunned? The damage from the storm literally ignores them. Its worthless.

So you took away her most satisfying abilities. Her W is a generic flails spell that does nothing, her E is a stunbot button that's a weaker version of braum's passive and her ult was literally gutted to a point of unrecognizability.

And she continues to be nerfed even now, even though the only people who still play Sej are top tier players who pick her out of pocket.

Reminder, this is a tank who has been gutted from their original identity thematically and had their ability to do their job AS a tank, removed from effective use, for the same Generic two slap ability and a Max Health damage spike that she didnt need to stay relevant. I'm making this post because I've been playing nunu about nonstop since he was reworked and I got that same magical feeling I did when playing old Sej.

And it reignited the fire in my heart. I originally wasn't going to share this because for a year I'd been dejected and resigned to the idea nothing will ever fix her. But... it needs to be said. It NEEDS to be done.

It's like the team who worked on her didn't understand her at all. And that's cripplingly depressing.

Its almost like they saw what she could do, took it all away, added Stoneplate item 3193 and Helm item 3194 in as a bandaid for the damage they'd caused in her transition surgery and left her by the wayside to die and be forgotton. They took away everything that makes her fun and made it boring.

Can we get to the point now where Riot can admit fully that the class updates were just a mistake? With the exception of literally two champions ( Maokai and Katarina )out of everyone reworked during those sweeps, every single other champ in those updates was a complete failure in some way.

But the worst, most egregious abysmal mistake of all, was the absolute GUTTING of Sejuani as a champion.

61 Comments

PhantomSpirit10110/5/2018, 1:40:46 AM37 votes

Reverting would require Riot to admit they messed up and they are too prideful for that! [zombie-brand-facepalm] In all seriousness though, I would love the revert as she was a fun and satisfying champion that didn't appear on the patch notes every other patch.

Morgy Morgy10/5/2018, 1:49:47 AM9 votes

her passive only has capped damage against epic monsters, dragon and baron. nothing else. but yeah, like... yikes, i tried playing new sej and her E in particular just feels awful cause of the cooldown per target, yeah ik it'd be really strong but i keep thinking i can ult and E to double stun them but the damn cooldown fucks me every time. she just feels awful, her kit doesnt seem to synergize with herself.

OHminus10/5/2018, 5:54:36 PM7 votes

Let's not act like Sej's E was completely satisfying to use before. Sure, the new one is massively flawed in terms of design but the old was ... so boring that I considered why it was even an ability.

But yes, Sej is in a complete and utter garbage state. She seems to be doing ok in competitive though, which means she's fine in Riot's book (dies inside)

SanKakU10/5/2018, 9:30:40 AM7 votes

She was my favorite jungle champ now I play fill because she's not available since Riot deleted her.

Ralanr10/5/2018, 2:27:06 PM6 votes

You’re probably the first person I’ve seen claim that old Sejuani was a utility tank and not a bruiser tank hybrid.

Icepaw10/5/2018, 8:50:39 PM4 votes

Sejus story are almost an exact copy of Fiddlesticks. Back in the days, he was actually a useful figure, until someone at Riots started hating. his guts. He recieved 14 concecutive, and then a partial rework that didnt touch anything close to his problems.

Now, only hard mains occacinally pick him, but still Riot dosent do shit.

Funny as it is, both of theese champs are was my mains.

So.. for those of you that like velkoz.. embrace.

Blakiepug10/5/2018, 10:40:21 PM4 votes

Sorry about Sej. :( I feel similar about my favorite champ Tahm Kench who has just been dumpstered to the point he is barely playable anymore. Obviously Kench wasn't "reworked" like Sej though.

Leto GT10/5/2018, 12:03:51 PM4 votes

She's unplayable right now. Even worst than old karma.

MrDrBudd10/6/2018, 7:14:42 PM3 votes

Those satisfying ults where the enemy team is halfway done with baron and you charge into the pit leading your team to hit a perfect 5 man ult and your team just cleans house.

Good times

Those were probably the closest times I've felt to being a barbarian war leader in this game. but since the rework those days are gone.

Elipo10/5/2018, 7:24:21 PM3 votes

I bet they gutted her on purpose to shift the meta towards champs whose skins actually do sell. Now I don't even touch her on aram

Sleepcoma10/5/2018, 2:59:18 AM2 votes

What are you talking about? maokai and kat were two of the worst reworks out of the class updates.

Ligseo10/5/2018, 12:52:48 PM2 votes

I completely agree, thank you for taking the time to write this.

Weensw10/5/2018, 2:06:11 PM2 votes

It's obvious Riot don't want Sej played in worlds to promote/dis-encourage certain strats...maybe there's a comp or 2 out there that Sej just happens to hard counter, and those comps happens to be those that Riot wants people to play in worlds, therefore, they wanted to make sure nobody counters those comps, thus Sej has to be sacrificed.

If I were you, I'd just prey that they revert her nerfs after worlds is finished and their intended goal is fulfilled.

MarkedOfKane10/5/2018, 1:47:49 AM2 votes

Sejuani after her first rework(Which wasn't too different from original Sejuani) was fine. I think the only change was that her W was a triggered by a basic attack instead of just an aura.

Häxel10/6/2018, 1:05:50 PM2 votes

Yea i'm mostly with you op. But i can also see that riot may had some ideas (which were mostly bad) and doesn't want to revert full on this. Like Riot thought cause her Ult is sooo powerfull her rest is weak and by hard nerfing the cc on ult they can give her harder cc on e and more dmg. They made her from a amumu/malphite/leona aoe engage tank to more of a 1v1 singletarget fighter. Funny how they did kinda the exact diffrent to zac, reducing his dmg and giving him a "more powerfull?" ult.

So idk if you would like my compromise but my idea would just be:

  1. Nerf hard or Remove Icebreaker. Like only dmg to big monsters. or just remove it as a whole.
  2. Add some power back to the Ult so secondary targets get stacks of Frost by a Remove the Snowstorm and on an explosian radius similar to old Ults slow area add 1-3 stacks absed on Ult rang. Or b Keep the Snowstorm and enemies in the storm get frost stacks over time while beeing "burned" by the storm.

So this:

ICEBREAKER: Enemies stunned by Sejuani are Frozen. Sejuani's basic attacks and abilities against Frozen enemies consume the effect to deal 10 / 15 / 20% of their maximum health as bonus magic damage, capped to 300 against epic monsters.

is totaly unnecesrary. Sejuani has not to beat Rengar in a 1v1 with some burst dmg. I wanna instead deal more stuff with my ult.

This is basically on paper, identical to Braum's passive. Except only melee champs can use it meaning unless her team has a melee diver she's out of luck to use it unless she's on top of someone permanently. But now she can't do anything because she has no means to slow her opponents, meaning she has to burn her Q, or her W and hit it perfectly on an enemy to get the effect of this passive spell, locking her out of play for most players who aren't good at using her new clunky W. ...So, she has Braum's passive but its weaker and more difficult to apply and effectively use, but also now has to hit an additional key while theyre still in range to apply a knockup and stun. ...But because of her new passive, that 80 damage, with a 60% AP ratio is guaranteed to also basically do 20% of their max health as immediate damage.

It basicly says all. It is weaker as Braums Stun by getting applied just by Meless but ALSO if you hit ult first on a target and stun it with that, Frost gets on cd so you can no longer apply stacks to this champ. If you want to doublestun you have first to apply frost stacks, then consume ti with e, then ult (best by ulting frim distance again). While Braum does not loose like his passive Stacks on a target for a stun if he knocks enemies up with his ult before (by the way knockup, no tenacity reduction or easy cleanse like on a stun). Let alone old Sejuani could 5 man stun people with good timing or luck but new Sejuani needs to be lucky with other melee champions in her comb and then still would have problems to get more as 3 stuns out in the first 10s of every teamfigh i would say.

So my idea ofcourse is not an ult revert to 5 man instastuns. I want at least the singlestun on one person, maybe adding skill to hit the ult on the right person, amybe from a good flank. And at the moment the snowstorm even reduced the skill so you can miss the ult but still ahve admg/zoning tool. Now enemies not getting hit still can try to escape by maybe flash or fightong back with an engage/disengage tool. But they would be able to get stuned quite easier and not just thin of gettign out of the snowstorm (at least if riot also removes the snowstorm wich i would favor more). And if Seju has some Divers, Assasins, any Melee FIghters in her Team, they can stun the enmies even much faster. Like imagine a Master Yi followup who runs fast with ult and alpa as gapcloser to the enemies and work threw the enemies to get a few stuns out. Or an Alistar engage who secures more time for seju, himself and other melees to get the 4 frost stacks.

Look it is not as less counterble as old ult where maybe the tip of an allie got hit by the ult and so it conected and you all got stunned. Generaly on some fight areas in the jungle, baron and dragon pit or walkign lane/river up or down it was not that hard to miss the aoe ult. But still the Ult would be powerfull as isntead of everyone getting stunned directly, only one would get so and the others have a chance to get fast stunned the enxt few seconds or to escape.

So Seju would loose: The %Health dmg on all these stuns making them "just stuns". Not also burst dmg tools. Seju would gain: More stuns in teamfight with her ult. Ult beeign more meaningfull, not giving quite the same powerful feel as old ult but beeign closer to it as todays ult. I also believe she would be easier to balance between Proplay and Soloq. Odl Sejuw as strong for example during Cidnerhulk meta season 5. But she was strong on both gameplay versions. New Seju is on a Galio/Ornn/Ryze style of beeing nerfed ahrd for Proplay and having a terrible winrate at Soloq. But diffrent to the mentioned Champions the ult that got nerfed can't be the reason. It has to be the passive that lead to Seju, who was a aoe engage tank, be a slightly weaker aoe engage tank having now also quite good duel power too. And by removing this duelpower which is strong proplay and adding aoe effects, a powerfeel and more stuns back to her ult, she feels better to play soloq as well. Can't say if she would get broken in proplay in engage emtas. but then she would also be broken in soloq. And if she will get nerfed out of this meta or the meta changes to duell junglers, well then she would be bad at both gameplayversions too and at least not get thousand nerfs or buffs cause she is in on environment bad and in the other one good and one has to suffer cause of this.

I also believe she would be

Linna Excel10/6/2018, 9:38:12 PM2 votes

Would revert 10/10.

zefir610/16/2018, 9:14:41 AM2 votes

Thank you for this post. I returned to Lol after two years of pause, and I didn't understand what happened to Sejuani. And I am heartbroken. She was my favourite champ since time before the first big remake (around s2/s3 I think - no one played her back then, she was literally one of 3 least played champs). I was cautious of the remake, but it was good, and made her popular suddenly - and I kept with her. I am not pro, and never got too high in ladder - but she was just fun to play. Satisfying - that's the exact word. I knew that I can tank for entire team, I knew I can CC someone to the ground near the end of game. All that is lost now, and she indeed feels like a shell of her former self :(

CAPS IS TOXIC10/5/2018, 10:46:59 PM2 votes

Even though I don't care about Sejuani at all, it is completely and utterly fucked up what Riot did to her.

Insanity.

Nea10410/5/2018, 11:33:49 PM2 votes

8.18: " We're also hitting Glacial Prison's zoning utility, a strength best leveraged by pro players, to keep her competitive presence in check while impacting her strength in normal play as little as possible. "

They literally admitted they don't work on their own game in order to make it better for whom actually plays it. And someone still trusts this company.

ADC Hans10/6/2018, 3:50:59 AM2 votes

I remember back in season 2-3 where she was seen as a troll pick but was actually a hidden OP with her W similar to shyvanas. Super fast wave clear and can take unpredictable gank paths dodging wards using her Q. Now she is utter trash. You cannot carry with her in solo Q, you can gift your teamates kills but you can't depend on them to carry you and sejuani is very dependant on getting carried.

Ratpie10/5/2018, 1:41:04 PM1 votes

Ya, I dread most reworks. They often take champs I loved and turn them into crap heaps. If they want to completely recreate a champ, just make a new champ and leave us to enjoy our champs.

I might be by myself on this one, but not only did I like the old Sej better, I also like the old WW and Yorick better. The old WW was simpler on the surface, but required so much more game awareness and offered way more to his team. Turned him from a sustained fighter/tank into Rengar 2.0. I had WW mastery before the rework, and have rarely touched him since. He went from my most played for seasons, to almost even being passed up by Teemo. Yorick before was so much more versatile. Now he is just a top lane bully and struggles at anything else. Yorick can still jungle, but his old kit was far more fun.

I am okay with some tweaks, but when they completely overhaul a champ it feels like Riot alienates a lot of players. If they want a champ with a completely different kit, just make a new champ!

I have bad RNG1/17/2019, 8:41:59 PM1 votes

I ran across this post and I can not agree more. Please riot give us the old sejuani back or rework the rework. She's use to be my favorite champion and now she's just bad and no fun to play. Riot I think a game should be fun first and foremost so please take that into consideration about sejuani.

Dat Kat10/5/2018, 2:07:57 AM1 votes

Nah nah, Katarina is included aswell. Her rework did nothing but lower her value in the game. Just because you don't see her in games anymore does not mean she's okay as is now. Because she's not.