@meddler, some context about the pbe kindred nerfs please

I will start by saying I recognize the need to bring kindred down before people come in raging for lamb chops.

Lets compare it to the nerfs to the other famous top tier jungler right now . From my observations especially in relation to the many complaints that have been said about her before, the nerfs are very clearly targeting her early jungle farm (much more the early than mid I think). That was probably the most annoying trait about her for most was that she could clear her whole jungle and half of your jungle by the time you finish your third camp. I don't play nidalee so I don't have any opinion on if the nerfs are too much or not, just my observation of the most notable issue and the attempt to target it.

Now from the complaints I have seen about kindred I think the most prevalent complaint was that the early dueling power was too much. With the first early game cooldown nerfs that looked like that was being targeted but it was said by a rioter that the early farm would have been too harshly effected by the nerf alone, so the compensation damage buff to monsters was given so that kindred's early farm could remain relatively unchanged. Now with a blanket nerf being put onto kindred, it seems like riot is ignoring that the early jungle farming ability will also be quite noticeably negatively effected too. Cutting down the early dueling power is understandable but kindred isn't a champ that has the same camp clearing ability of a nid that would be needing a nerf.

Also the idea of the rest of the kit being linked to stack scaling is a great idea, I think most kindred mains would agree on that. But the need for 9 stacks for Dance of arrows to reach live damage is too heavy handed. I think 6 stacks should be the magic number that would be aimed for which would be about +7-8 damage increase to dance of arrows per stack. Already now at live kindred usually has their Dance of arrows maxed ~9mins if they were ahead ~10 mins if they were even and 11-12 mins+ if they were put behind, and their mark count would typically be 4(ahead), 3(even), 2(behind). So even if it were to break even at 6 stacks it would still be technically a nerf compared to live at those similar points of the game when dance of arrows is maxed. Again the pattern from personal experience+watching high level kindred games 6 stacks usually happen at around 15 minutes if you were shoving your early lead down the enemies throat, 20 minutes if you were about even, and if you are behind but somehow managed to luckily get stacks still it is closer to the 22-25 minute point of the game and again that is if you are lucky enough to even make it to that 6 stack mark. Now why 6 as the magic number? For champ marks you can easily have them denied by your own team members beating you to the kill before you could even get it from an assist, or the enemy simply playing safer if they know that they are marked. Jungle marks are easier and safer to get even solo until 6 since you of course can't solo baron or herald so getting the 7th+ marks will be much harder to acquire, to the point of it being basically impossible if you are behind and generally not very easy even if you are even.

I think it is possible and reasonable to nerf kindred's early dueling power without the need to affect the jungle farming ability. There was already first steps taken that went off the idea targeting the duel power while leaving the farm intact with the Q early cooldown nerf but a W compensation buff to monsters. Building off the idea of the changes it looks like that riot is wanting to go with I would think that a better idea would be.

Mark of The Kindred: Each stack gains +5% scaling for dance of arrows

Dance of Arrows: 40/70/90/120/150 (+%20AD)

Wolf's Frenzy: While in wolf's frenzy deal 25% more damage to monsters and minions

The Q damage change should more strongly take away kindred's early "oppressiveness", while the damage increase from W while active being for all of kindred's damage should make for a net zero change to kindred's jungle farming from live roughly. These overall changes will make for the magic number of 6 stacks would make the Q damage equal if you have about 100 AD but will give some potential to AD warrior kindred to be a viable other option.

TLDR: Kindred's most notable issue is the early dueling, so why is the jungle farming taking a hit as well too?