Sion buff proposal

DrBaryon·10/6/2015, 12:59:12 AM·12 votes·2,361 views

So...Sion. His rework is pretty much the "gold-standard" for reworked champions, being fun for the player while leaving counterplay options for opponents. I picked him up shortly after rework when people still building ravenous hydra, maxing q and complaining about how lackluster and weak he was. Loved him to death for his badassery, the simple-to-learn, hard-to-master kit, and his self-destructive and fearless play style and he's been my favorite pick in ranked since.

Then he hit the pro-scene and people started to notice how bs his e was, and it got nerfed a couple times. Totally legit. It was the only part of his kit that had no counterplay and the base damage and mana cost were out of line. People still had great success on him.

But then the shield nerf happened, and Sion instantly dropped from overpowered to balanced or slightly below balanced. The delay in popping it is clunky but sensible, since people weren't using it as a shield and there wasn't enough time for opponents to pop it. But the scaling was a serious problem. Now Sion's shield is one of the worst in the game until you can start leveling it after lvl 9. And if you don't level it 2nd because you want to your e to actually have a decent cd/slow/dmg, it will be weak almost the whole game.

Since that nerf Sion dropped out of pro-play pretty completely, and almost everything that happened since has diminished his effectiveness further. His core item Frozen Heart took a serious nerf, as did Righteous Glory. The juggernauts took his role as a high threat tank and do it much more effectively than him (he has a cc/initiation advantage but if that was all you wanted maokai and malphite could do it much more reliably, sion's advantage was his dmg threat). New Fiora and GP add to the long list of champs that crush him in lane (riven, vlad, cho, anyone else with some combo of mobility sustain and cc). Sterak's is a solid choice on him, but Titanic Hydra is a trap given how poor his ad ratios are outside q (his ultimate scales worse with ad than Renekton's does with ap) and how little he autos, and deadman's plate lets the juggs initiate, further eroding his niche. Consequently, according to champion.gg, he sits at a pick rate of below 1.5% and a win rate below 49%. These numbers aren't in and of themselves horrible in the way post-nerf kass was, but given that his kit's so well designed and counterplayable, I can't help but feel that now would be an ok time to give him a buff so he can get some play outside of his hardcore fanbase and compete with some of the "OP" new top-laners.

If anyone at Riot agrees, here's some changes I think could help him out a little. It would be great if you could implement 1 or 2, I certainly don't expect all of them given I agree he's about balanced:

  1. Buff Base Ad. Sion's base AD growth of 4 per level was nearly the highest when he came out. Reworked Darius however outpaces him significantly with 5 per level. This doesn't make much sense thematically, given Sion is basically Darius's prototype, with 300 lbs extra muscle and a oven of blood magic in his stomach. More base ad would buff his q and ensure getting hacked at by a giant zombie berserker doesn't tickle.
  2. Change his passive's health drain so it scales on base hp. It's a pet peeve of mine that Sion is pretty much the only champ actively punished for gaining xp by one of his mechanics, since his passive drains health based on level. It makes the power curve on his passive very strange, making lvl 1 undead sion a buff stealing, multikilling monster while lvl 18 sion struggles to live more than a few seconds even with no enemy focus and a full tank build. Scaling on base hp keep his strength consistent and rewards him for the bonus health from tanky builds and successful w farm.
  3. Revert the w shield strength nerf. This option will allow sion to get some beef back into his lvl 1 shield and gives him the flexibility to max e early without gimping his mid game teamfight. Maintaining the 3s delay will keep it from being as oppressive as in his glory days. Probably not a good idea given how oppressive e max can be, but would strengthen his ability to handle mobile and ranged opponents q max can't handle.
  4. Reduce mana cost on shield. Another option. Sion's builds are inflexible and rely on frozen heart too much because of the above average mana cost on w, which is essential to winning a trade, but still much weaker than it was on release. Setting it to a flat 65 would also discourage the e first build Riot struggled to balance.
  5. Make e a 1 point wonder. Sion's strength in lane is his cc combo of e slow into q slam. As it stands though, that combo is difficult to pull off unless you max e first, which gimps the aoe teamfight tools of his q and w. Lvl 1 e has double the cd of maxed q and a somewhat weak 40% slow, which is part of why people max e. If you want to favor the q>w>e skill order, reducing the lvl 1 cd or setting the slow to a flat 50% would be good ways to make it useful in lane even if you max q first.

Just some ideas, sorry for the novel. I understand if you're of the mind sion is balanced, but would appreciate you considering the first two at least, since to me they're small buffs that fix counter-intuitive elements of his kit.

29 Comments

OxBaker10/6/2015, 1:15:51 AM6 votes

I'd love it if they just reverted his shield nerfs. As it stands there's no reason to play him top lane when you could choose a juggernaut instead.

Lovelle10/7/2015, 12:51:54 AM3 votes

Not only that, but Sion's Q is a lot harder to land, so it should do more damage when fully charged imo.

Cho'gath's Q is an AoE knockup and it does a ton more damage, plus it's easier to land.

A Miss Fortune10/6/2015, 1:38:08 AM2 votes

Does Sion really need more than a tiny buff though? I think he's really balanced. He can do so much for his team and he's one of the only tanks I love, he's what a tank should be.

Extremely beefy with awesome teamfighting ability but he falls off hard when it comes to real damage. He can instantly win teamfights with his hard AoE CC and his ability to peel for carries, but there's also counterplay to it.

killd0zer10/6/2015, 1:19:55 AM1 votes

i didnt read ur post but i dv

M4nhunt6610/6/2015, 10:31:22 AM1 votes

Upvoted for some love for Sion.

TheDevice10/6/2015, 11:40:17 AM1 votes

Sion sion brothers... unite.

Yaskamasandwich10/6/2015, 6:21:10 PM1 votes

The problem, maybe mentioned before, with Sion, Sejuani, Nasus, Amumu and any other type of "Tank Raid Boss" (A beast who's late game makes hyper carries cry and only countered by another tank raid boss in the end) was olafed and nerfed to the ground. These beasts entire point was to reach a certain point of the game and then proceed to STOMP the front line and then break Vayne's neck (using her as the perfect example since she fits both anti tank and hyper carry perfectly, koggles is another example.) when the timer was up. This timer was past the hyper carry timer so you still had the chance but when time was up, TIME WAS UP, PERIOD!

The point of this is anyone who is a Tank Raid Boss is considered toxic by Riot, and probably the community, and will never be viable. They will be olafed to mid-late game champions with a weak early game, and constantly nerfed to be kept in check. I would love to have my favourite raid bosses back to their former glory, but until Riot changes their veiw that will not happen. Perhaps more petitions will help but the bad blinded sheeple has made Riot ignore their fans sadly.

It also doesn't help that the hyper carries have such safe solo-q early game now, thus a powerful mid game, and a bigger late game due to the before mentioned olafing and nerfing. Double whammy that the hyper carries that are beastly right now are anti-tanks (looking at you Fiora, Vayne, etc.) Sorry that this is smewhat all Ranty and not helping just explaining the reasoning and all ... I miss my Tanky Raid Bosses. :'(

Hexs Fortune10/6/2015, 9:20:06 PM1 votes

i've always wished sion was built more like garen ( huge damage soaking monster with some mobility and kill potential), but I understand he had too much CC for it now

JSTIN810/7/2015, 6:30:35 AM1 votes

Big player of sion here, love taking him into the jungle myself instead of top but I see the appeal to him in a solo lane. What I would love seeing is the W delay reduced and the ad ratio on his ult changed up to work more off base ad if he hits one of those long range ults. As it stands his W is a major peice of his damage throughout the game but outside of lane it is really, REALLY hard to get off before the enemy bursts through it. Just my 2 cents.

alfavhunter10/7/2015, 3:04:46 PM1 votes

Sion doesn't need more damage

What he does need is the shield nerf reverted, his passive to scale on base hp instead of lvl and a new form of late game damage threat

Idea-let his passive "abilities" cd reset if an enemy champion dies with soon gaining the kill or assist, with the changes to his passive doing damage to sion based on base hp it gives sion a threats mode when ignored by huge cc, and when killed by more mobility and damage if he scores a kill/assist

Weiner the Pooh10/6/2015, 1:12:08 AM1 votes

whats a sion? jk doe, him and Sejuani could use some of those nerfs reverted.

Sasogwa10/7/2015, 8:20:02 PM1 votes

I think, on top of slight QoL buffs, sion's W passive (health stacking) should be immune to %health damage. Every %health based damage such as botrk, Vayne's bolts should not take in account the bonus HP he gets from it. Because as a defensive infinite scaling , it's pretty annoying that it gets auto countered by %health without more thinking than that. And I really don't think it will make him unkillable anyway. Lategame damage dealers are so insane that Sion is still very much killable even with that.

53436278DEL110/6/2015, 1:16:17 AM1 votes

i agree with number 2

Ironclad Dragon10/6/2015, 1:19:02 AM1 votes

Sion Buff my man, man.