The Ryze Problem

Sirsir·12/5/2019, 8:34:35 PM·28 votes·13,510 views

Hes got decent base damages to farm with

His gimmick is spam

He's gated by mana

He has no ult reliance so all of his damage is in his base kit. It's almost like Udyr where since he effectively has no ult more of his power budget goes into his base kit

Once he builds Tear he has no real gate anymore. Plus it contributes to his damage.

Not that hard of a problem to figure out. Now that he no longer needs to spam E to get his waveclear that ability needs an actual cooldown at its early levels. there are too many relics from when he was a combo mage that aren't needed anymore.

Also in his next rework give him a decent ult. His current one has some interesting potential but its not practical at all.

E: Grammar

66 Comments

Z3SIeeper12/6/2019, 2:30:06 AM21 votes

He's a late game scaling champion. He has to earn 850g before he reaches his endgame fantasy.

Hayaishi212/5/2019, 9:22:26 PM18 votes

Ryze's problem is that he doesn't have a powerbudget.

If he has a playmaking ultimate then his kit shouldnt be compensated for not having a damaging ultimate.

Nowdays powerbudget only exists for old garbage champions and that is why balance sucks.

LanceTheMighty12/6/2019, 2:37:50 AM8 votes

As a late game scaling champion, he should have to choose between maxing Q for damage early game and skirmishing, or E for waveclear. He shouldn't get the best of both worlds so early into the game.

WoonStruck12/6/2019, 5:03:03 AM5 votes

Did you actually suggest Ryze is gated by mana?

That only applies before his first back, my dude. And he usually forces it by hard shoving til he's OOM, then TPing back with tear and permashoving.

Linna Excel12/5/2019, 9:31:28 PM3 votes

Maybe his damage should scale on %current mana somehow. That way he'd get weaker as he casts spells.

Then perhaps his passive could make his spells cost an additional 5% of his current mana and do 1 more damage per mana spent. This would put pressure on his mana base if he spams too much as well as encourage him not to spam too much if he wants to trade.

NodirjonSattarov12/6/2019, 3:29:38 AM3 votes

His gimmick is spam He's gated by mana Once he builds Tear he has no real gate anymore. Plus it contributes to his damage.

Cassiopeia also spams her abilities, but that isn't her "gimmick". Additionally, Ryze's cooldowns are implemented in a way that even at 40% CDR there is a brief gap in between his full rotation. At lower CDR values in the early game the gap is more evident and the lack of mana deters him from spamming his abilities. At level 6 he has 497 mana + 250 (tear) + however much he's stacked thus far. Suppose we're at a flat 750 mana, and we are wave clearing with EQ (80 mana), we would only be able to use EQ 9 times in lane before we completely run out of mana. In the early stages of the game at least 3 EQs are needed to completely clear the wave, but I don't even do that. Therefore this is the time to capitalize on Ryze.

He's gated by mana Once he builds Tear he has no real gate anymore. Plus it contributes to his damage.

Tear and mana in general, prior to completion of Seraph's Embrace, marginally influence his damage. Briefly looking at his Q ratio, 3% bonus mana isn't all that much, especially in the early game. Suppose you have Tear (250 mana), 3% of that nets you 7.5 damage. Even in late game when you have 2500-3500 bonus mana, the damage ranges from 75 to 105, respectively. After you incorporate resistances, the damage further decreases.

He has no ult reliance so all of his damage is in his base kit. It's almost like Udyr where since he effectively has no ult more of his power budget goes into his base kit

I'm sure you're away that Ryze's Q damage is amplified per R rank. The scaling goes 40%/70%/100%. The Q amplification used to be on Q, but they shifted the passive to R to add incentive to invest in it. So now, he obtains full damage at level 16. The primary use, however, is a great roaming ability. You'll only understands its capabilities when you use it as much as you can. You'll understand its range and how you can clip over walls with it. It's extremely useful and reliable.

Not that hard of a problem to figure out. Now that he no longer needs to spam E to get his waveclear that ability needs an actual cooldown at its early levels. there are too many relics from when he was a combo mage that aren't needed anymore.

Not sure why you you're saying that Ryze doesn't spam E anymore. In fact, Ryze uses E more now since he can apply E-flux to the entire wave. Before his E was changed, he could double E, wait for E to almost come off CD, Q the wave, then E again for it to double bounce off the Q, then if needed Q again. I could do this with tear + 2 sapphire crystals in the early game at level 6. The net cost was 200 mana or 240 if you used the 2nd Q. Wave clearing like this was faster than it is now but it cost much more mana. So they made is "easier" to wave clear by making flux spread but removed the double bounce mechanic.

xelaker12/6/2019, 3:39:29 AM3 votes

I have 0 sympathy for a champ that hits full build at sub 900 gold

R0ses R Red12/6/2019, 4:34:35 AM2 votes

Ryze's true problem is that interacting with him is impossible unless you have hard CC that's easy to apply or outrange ridiculously hard. Trying to fight Ryze is like trying to catch a squirrel. Odds are you won't catch it, and it'll still scar you if you manage to reach it.

Spicy Rice12/6/2019, 2:22:15 PM2 votes

I like how suddenly, because ryze was played in LCS, he's now suddenly broken.

Yet 2 months back, people were dodging and calling me a troll for playing ryze....

Now, I won't say that he isn't strong, because he is, but he does have a glaring weakness, mainly that his kit is targeted, except for q, meaning if you aren't in his range, he can't do jack to you.

And considering he has a short range (for a mage), it becomes pretty simple to beat the crap out of him.

The main problem with ryze, imo, is conq giving him lots of healing and extra damage. The healing is being reduced for ranged champs next patch, so now we just need to see if they will also make it harder for ranged champs to stack.

EDIT: Also, MR itemization is honestly pretty shit atm. I'd rather that Riot focus on making MR items worth buying before looking to directly nerf mages, so that ap champs don't get double whammied

Garson21112/7/2019, 11:54:48 AM2 votes

picking op vs op is not making them less op.the fuck you guys even talk about

Z is cool12/7/2019, 12:00:47 PM1 votes

{quoted}

Hes got decent base damages to farm with

His gimmick is spam

He's gated by mana

He has no ult reliance so all of his damage is in his base kit. It's almost like Udyr where since he effectively has no ult more of his power budget goes into his base kit

Once he builds Tear he has no real gate anymore. Plus it contributes to his damage.

Not that hard of a problem to figure out. Now that he no longer needs to spam E to get his waveclear that ability needs an actual cooldown at its early levels. there are too many relics from when he was a combo mage that aren't needed anymore.

Also in his next rework give him a decent ult. His current one has some interesting potential but its not practical at all.

E: Grammar

I'm upset because all i see is Ryze toplane, the game state has changed from tanks and bruisers top, mages and assassins mid to mages top and AP tanks mid

And you know what's even worse, as a melee character there's nothing i can do about ryze because his CDR is so damn low, and really the most upsetting part of it all. IT DOES. SO. MUCH. DAMAGE. But wait there's counterplay, just fight him! Hey guess what every ryze takes phase rush and pushes in your lane for the first 4 minutes, backs and then picks up tear and shits on you the entire lane

LuthianDelphi12/7/2019, 12:14:56 AM1 votes

His damage just needs to be brought into line w/ every other DPS mage in the game, Azir, Cassio, Asol, there is NO stage of the game where one hit of their (minions, E, or Stars) respectively will do 1K damage but there is for ryze. If hes going to be a spammy machine gun mage thats fine, but he shouldn't be playing as a burst mage without cooldowns.

Raiyza12/6/2019, 3:33:55 AM1 votes

No mage should actually scale from mana AND Ap, honestly. Just buff his mana scaling and make him pure mana scaling.

Padoµch12/6/2019, 10:39:58 AM1 votes

Ryze has the same problem as Cassiopea. They both get super strong when they get the Tear. Ryze has to spam E and Q, cass needs to hit one Q and get bonus movement speed and can cast 3 Es in that time.