I don't get it... Why is Riot making Graves' damage harder to apply when that's his identity?

Rip901·9/27/2016, 8:17:57 PM·56 votes·2,189 views

Burst damage + short ranged marksman.

That's what he is supposed to be.

Not this fucking 200 Armor and MR drain tank that keeps being a fucking annoying %%%% to the enemy team.

Graves' damage is fine, that's what a Marksman is supposed to do, and he does it well. Besides, the second part of his Q is already hard to land, so at least, if he managed to land it in a good angle, he should be rewarded for it.

I don't get why they reverted the E resistances nerf when this is where the problem lies in the first place. To be honest, the E nerfs were fine.

40 Comments

MunchCrunchLunch9/27/2016, 10:44:13 PM18 votes

he gets fmore resistances from a basic ability. than jax does from his ultimate. makes me sad. i feel way tankier. as graves. with just 1 tank item. and 5 damage items. than i feel with a 3 tank item jax.

Josheheh9/27/2016, 9:59:00 PM5 votes

people really need to start thinking of graves as essentially melee. The resistances he gets off his E are what allow him to stay alive, much like other melee carries have riposte, windwall, counterstrike, stealths, etc. Graves gets tankier, which imo is a really great way of showcasing his identity as a shotgun-wielding in-your-face outlaw.

ModAcademy Kayn9/28/2016, 1:43:41 AM4 votes

"Damage" is never a identity. I'd argue that Graves identity is being the tanky front liner DPS. If that's how they picture Graves, then Damage is what they should lower on Graves, not the tanky stats, because otherwise you get a more fragile DPS with less range than most Marksmen.

Mira Arya Enthe9/27/2016, 8:47:08 PM2 votes

Agreed.

BakedLotion9/28/2016, 12:29:35 PM1 votes

Should just make it so his auto can only proc lifesteal once zzz

Vistha Kai9/28/2016, 9:28:40 PM1 votes

I don't get why they reverted the E resistances nerf when this is where the problem lies in the first place.

Exactly because that's the problem.

In Riot's book dealing with the source of a problem is absolutely the last resort, as idiotic as it may sound.

Examples being Karma - who Riot decided to relaunch instead of trying to do ANYTHING about her first kit and then removed 90% of "Karma" after the rework anyway - Kassadin - who first remained unchanged, then reworked and then had everything about his basic abilities nerfed, until they hit his ult, which was the problem all along - now we have Yasuo - who was "broken" by changes to one of the ADC items and later by an unfounded mini-rework to Trinity Force - and Graves - who has been busted for like a year - to name a few.

TotalJerk9/28/2016, 11:28:51 PM1 votes

You wanna really nerf Graves? Get that item 3715 item 3046 bullshit combo out of the game. It's basically the "autowin duels" combo. item 3812 is a problem too, but it isn't that good.

Strawberrycocoa9/28/2016, 11:30:48 PM1 votes

Grave's identity isn't a burst ADC, he's been the tanky in-your-face ADC ever since he was released. Durability IS part of his identity.

Shadow Hazard9/27/2016, 11:43:31 PM1 votes

At this point i think riot should buff the ever loving shit out of every ability and passive to make it match graves to see the balance shit short that would happen. Non salty idea though is they should look into making it scale with bonus ad, but in the case that it is removed and they was to compensate buff (he frankly wouldn't need it in my opinion) reduce the time between his bullet reloading and make that scale harder with attack speed.

Drahcir9/28/2016, 11:30:43 AM1 votes

riot should just buff his E resistances and make it so it can't stack, so max rank E gives about 40-50 mr and armor

JDB8eoX8x09/28/2016, 11:56:03 AM1 votes

I remember when a Garen tried to fight me as Graves. Funny times, I had Death's Dance and Bloodthirster, poor guy couldn't even get me below 50% Health. That being said, I wouldn't mind if Graves can no longer knock back monsters in Jungle. He's just as problematic as Vayne jungle, because they both identify as hard-hitting ADCs with a ton of mobility and safety. A strong ADC shouldn't be able to clear this easily in the Jungle. There should be a downside to playing an ADC in the Jungle, something that compensates for not going on bot lane where they'd otherwise be confronted by other enemies. It's hard to counterjungle Graves as well, because he barely takes damage from clearing. It's so oppressive to a point where I wouldn't even counterjungle him with Kha anymore. Try waiting for Graves at his red buff, then you'll know why; he gets a ton of tankiness just from standing there and outranging the buff, so he's barely weakened down AND tanky enough to put a bullet between your eyes. Imo they should remove his monster knockback or nerf his tanky E hard. Graves is an ADC, and if he as an ADC can identify more as a Jungle than his real role, then something is clearly wrong with his difficulty in the Jungle.