Why Ahri is an issue, explained straightforward

Lil Soybean·8/8/2015, 2:19:51 AM·8 votes·1,369 views

To begin with, the cause of the frustration:

https://gyazo.com/bea4f4cdc9ae2e1ab8fdeda7566ff4d0

http://www.lolking.net/champions/

She is - currently - the most popular midlaner in the game, and the highest winrate champion in the entire game.


Warning: Long post below. My thesis on why Ahri is an issue right now.

Okay, let's look at some of the arguments in Ahri's defense. You can always list a way to "counterplay" Ahri. We get it.
"She has less damage than X."
"She's not as safe as Y."
"Just dodge skillshots."

All you are doing is listing Ahri's weaknesses.

The problem is that literally every single weakness you mentioned applies to pretty much every single other midlaner - except, she doesn't suffer from those weaknesses nearly as much. I.E. Squishiness means everything on Xerath, who can be easily and quickly blown up in his own tower, even through barrier. Whereas Ahri's squishiness is negated by the fact that she is almost uncatchable if she wants to be.

So the question isn't, "Does she have a weakness?" The question is, "How do her weaknesses compare to the weaknesses of other midlaners, who she's up against?"

If her weaknesses were fairly balanced against theirs, then the numbers would say so. That's where the problem comes in. She's the most played midlaner in the game, and yet she is nearly the highest winrate champion in the entire game.

And that's the key point.

THE NUMBERS DON'T SAY AHRI HAS NO WEAKNESSES. SHE DOES HAVE WEAKNESSES. WE GET THAT. THE NUMBERS SAY THAT HER WEAKNESSES AREN'T NEARLY AS EXPLOITABLE AS ANY OF HER OPPONENTS' WEAKNESSES. Please, understand what that means.

No, randomly listing weaknesses of her doesn't give a good defense against nerfs. It's like saying Preseason 5 Warwick was balanced because he had weaknesses too. "He's immobile!" "He's a melee champion!" "He can't gank pre-6!"

Yeah, and he still has those weaknesses now. But those weakness didn't mean shit compared to all of his strengths at the time, as shown by his massive pickrate/winrate inflation.

Just like the counterarguments for nerfing Ahri.

"She's squishy, just CC her and she dies." Like all of her opponents in the midlane. Except she's much more mobile, and thus much less susceptible to getting caught out, than most of them. Furthermore, after being caught out, she has a much higher chance of escaping and surviving.

"Just dodge skillshots." Same argument that Nidalee mains used as she was 100% pick/ban in the LCS. Yes, skillshots can be dodged. But they can either 1) be too reliable, or 2) reward you way too much for landing one. In Ahri's case, it's a little of both. One charm usually means death. If she doesn't have the skill to land her charm, she can dash into melee range to hit you with it.

"Just stand behind minions to avoid the charm." Her orb ignores minion collision.

"Just stand away from the minions to avoid orb." ...sigh.

Statistically, across what must be thousands if not tens-of-thousands of matches, playing Ahri means that you are much, much, much more likely to beat your opponent. Just by having her on your team.

Here's what's important to note. Even though having an inflated pickrate usually shrinks a champions' winrate, due to novices playing that champion, Ahri's winrate actually inflates massively as more people play her. Why? She has an abnormally high success rate for people who are barely picking her up. Over 52% for people just starting their first 5 matches as her.

That suggests that the people playing her are at least partially being carried by her kit. (As TheOddOne put it, I heard.)

And get this. I keep seeing people defending her by saying that Ahri players are just skilled at her. Someone recently checked. Ahri is (or, within the past day or two, was) ranked 24 out of 48 midlaners in terms of avg. games played.

That means the average experience of people playing Ahri....is literally average. Literally average. That means for every 200+ game Ahri main pubstomping, there is also an Ahri noob with 5 games who is winning most of them just because of the way her kit is designed.

I don't understand how someone can get so defensive of Ahri to actually suggest this is okay. The only other champions who ever approach her current level of success (54%+ winrate WITH 18%+ PICKRATE) are champions who were horribly broken for a short time (Sej on Cinderhulk release, Preseason 5 Warwick, etc.) OR champions who are extremely uncommon (Malzahar, for example, whose winrate is high, but is almost exclusively played by his mains, who have a lot of experience with him. Similar to the old Heimerdinger phenomenon.)

The argument that "winrate doesn't mean anything" is a fallacy. Winrate on its own doesn't tell us much, if anything. But winrate with pickrate tells us a LOT.

The higher a champion's pickrate, generally, their winrate drops massively. With Ahri, her pickrate inflates, tons of people randomly start playing her with little to no experience, and they win.

These are the statistical facts. The only defense left for her is, "Well, I feel like she has counterplay, and I don't want her to be nerfed!"

The irony is that you're kind of proving the point. She's incredibly successful and has tons and tons of people playing her. When a champion is overtuned and extremely popular, naturally, more people show up to defend the champion that is inflating their winrate.

:/

22 Comments

Lugg8/8/2015, 9:25:13 PM2 votes

The Ahri mains are downvoting you like mad because they know you are 100% right. She is easy to use and easy to win with. She needs a significant nerf.

Fadedpf8/8/2015, 2:34:27 AM2 votes

The problem is her Q giving her basically a ghost. It added another safety net to her kit. Shes too safe to be called weak.

DanofDemacia8/8/2015, 2:45:08 AM2 votes

I can confirm i play ahri when im tired of losing

Thresh Outta Fux8/8/2015, 3:59:01 AM2 votes

I've been pointing this out ever since her rework.

But

# of Ahri fangirls > # those who value balance.

And thus, we cannot get anywhere until she pubstomps the LCS.

LadyRenly8/8/2015, 8:57:39 PM2 votes

Mobility is a counter to skill shots and force you to be more precise, but in an Ahri vs vel'koz match up, I do not have any issue, it comes down to skill. She's not broken and neither is her mobility or her lane phase. I'd sooner face Ahri than Blitzcrank or Annie.

TraakSC8/8/2015, 2:25:55 AM2 votes

[deleted]

FebruAhri8/8/2015, 6:56:39 PM1 votes

she's supposed to be safe, since a kite mage is what rito made her into. She does less damage than almost every other midlaner out there. This is not shared with most midlaners. Also her mobility is tied to her ultimate, unless you count that 1 second of 200 movespeed, which is nothing when you're getting dashed on. Hell, Udyr has perma 600 movespeed, but people call him "easy to kite".

Snowball4u8/8/2015, 2:27:19 AM1 votes

This reminds me of gbays video where he talks about a nunu flaming him because he picked a 47% winrate champion.

Keep in mind the noobs are in bronze and there are so many people in there that they determine these pickrates/winrates. (Sorry bronze but its true) and in bronze, people dont inow how to dodge, they dont know how to stay in position, they dont know how to peel.

You cant use statistics from bronze if you are gold just because you dont like a champion.

GloriousKaiser8/8/2015, 2:33:16 AM1 votes

It's hard to win when you're opponent doesn't give you the window to beat them.

I agree when you say her weaknesses are not as apparent as they are in other midlaners. But that's due to the design Riot intended with her more recent changes. With the Q speed, they want her to be a kiter/chaser, along with her 3 dashes. It means she can keep a chase up or run away %90+ of the time.

Her safety is her main picking point. New players have tons of opportunity to save face when making mistakes because of that safety measures within the abilities.

I guess her safety outweighs her deficit of not having the burst capability of Brand Velkoz Xerath. Because even then, as a midlaner, she can do her job of bursting people down just like the 3 mentioned, except with mobility. Especially with Charm. Then again, those 3 have extreme team presence when they have the perfect positioning. Unlike Ahri who uses her ult soley for her own benefit and can outplay a few people. The 3 immobile mages can literally turn team battles around with their ults.

Cogito Ergo Sol 8/8/2015, 3:45:10 AM1 votes

Mhhh Am I talking from just my silver 1..?Yes, but I think this is pretty much an opinion, if we talk about Ahri's balance. I play since early season 4 and I've seen a lot of things, even if I didn't play so much. For me, as a past Zed main, I always thought that Ahri is balanced, but like Zed/Ekko/Cassiopeia she needs some changes. She is insanely safe, and basically she is strong all the game: -Early game safety, sustain and mobility -Mid game decent damage compared to heavy burst mages like Syndra and Leblanc (She is more an assassin tho), still super high mobility with 3 dashes, 1 flash and a flat movespeed buff -Late game she is strong, she has enough damage to oneshot an adc even if she does not land the charm, low cooldowns. The point of Ahri is that she is very strong from all the points. Yes, she has weakness, but her weakness is not that weak (For e.g. Olaf/Darius/Volibear, they are extremely kitable) Ahri?Yes, she is squshy.Pretty standard if you go full damage. Suffer cc?Like all champions except Irelia/Tanks with tenacious and mercury. But, she still has some way to beating that weakness because she is very versitile. Even if you go Rylai, Zhonya's, Abyssal, Sorc Boots, rabadon/luden/void staff and will of ancient she is still extremely strong. Meanwhile Cassiopeia needs heavy mana-items like RoA/Tear, Azir needs (needed) cdr, all these champions, they can't leave that utility for a luden; ahri instead doesn't matter what you build, she's still strong, and viable. Possible nerfs?Honestly not a lot of things, her damage is okay, she has just too much utility. I'd say keep the bonus movespeed from Q but make it scaling (You max q first so it's still strong) and give like a 0,5 cooldown for every dash. Btw sorry if I spelled/said something wrong, I'm italian

BurakkuHishou8/8/2015, 2:40:41 AM1 votes

by what you said Ahri is balanced right now, in fact, except for the point in history which her charm was a free mini DFG, she has been one of the most balanced champions in league of legends. All skillshots have a high risk, high reward effect about them. Because they all have a chance to miss, unlike point and click mechanics (cough annie cough). An ahri is easy to punish if she makes a mistake with positioning and the fact that cc is her bane is true of all mid laners, because that is supposed to be their bane. The reason she is so successful is because by compensating some her strength to lose some weakness she is not incredibly overpowering, but not capable of being completely blown up. She's a safe pick because she is balanced.

Abyssphere8/8/2015, 2:43:01 AM1 votes

I think she just has a somewhat muddled identity. I love Ahri but when they compensated her for the removal of DFG they made her probably the biggest generalist in the mid lane after Azir. There's very little she can't do to at least some degree right now, so it's quite hard for her to NOT overshadow a lot of other mids.

Personally I don't think kiting mage is a good fit for her - with four damaging abilities and a hard CC that guarantees they land, she has a naturally bursty kit. Right now she's a watered down assassin waveclear poke kiting mage and she just doesn't specialise in anything.