"I Will Lead the Charge" - A Detailed Analysis of the Might of Demacia

OmegasisX·Jun 6, 2018·4 votes·1,677 views

Hello Everyone,

My name is OmegasisX & I am a Gold 5 player in Ranked Solo/Duo & Silver 1 in Ranked Flex. Recently, Meddler, in his one of his “Quick Gameplay Thoughts” posts, posted a comment concerning Garen:

What matters in terms of whether we act on something is how good the argument is though…A not upvoted thread at all however, if it has great points about when Garen's weak, why that's inappropriate, how he could be changed in ways that are consistent with who Garen is/how he plays etc has better odds of getting traction…

This post is meant to be an article (and I mean article) about just that - why Garen is weak, why that’s bad, & how we can fix him. This post is not a "Rework" article, nor do I intend that every single one of these suggestions would be implemented; it is an article to enhance what Garen CURRENTLY has to make him viable & competitive.

WARNING This post is the equivalent of a 3.5 page essay, so don’t read further if you do not wish to do so. WARNING

Here we go:

Why Garen’s Weak:

1) His abilities & lack of a clear engage make his teamfighting relevance unclear & teammate dependent:

In a teamfight, generally speaking, Garen has armor shred, damage, a 1-use silence on a single target, & an execute. He has no way to get a pick on an enemy (front or backline) nor anyway to change the position of enemies within the vicinity. “Engaging” with Q often means getting kited from enemies as well having to back out to restore health. Standard Black Cleaver tank players usually rely on teammates to carry teamfights and win games.

2) His lack of mobility makes him easily kitable, without much counterplay:

Garen is a melee champ. Melee champions will always have inherent disadvantages against ranged champions. But, champions, like Riven & Yasuo, have ways to initiate onto ranged champions to level the playing field. While Garen’s Q does provide movement speed, that is simply not always enough to fight enemies / escape from them if necessary.

3) His early level & laning phase presence is weak. Really weak.

Garen is weak in the beginning of the game because of how long it takes his passive to heal him, as well as how long it is on CD when he gets hit. Other champions, like Akali or Aatrox, however, can consistently heal themselves all the way back to full health with mere auto attacks throughout the course of the game. Garen’s sustain needs enhancing to be able to match this degree of healing.

So, what do I propose? Well, let’s find out.

How to Improve Garen:

Passive - Perseverance (Enhance laning-phase sustain & implement late-game sustain)

"Vile scourge": From levels 1-10, taking damage puts Perseverance on an 8 second CD instead of 9, & his health regeneration increases to 4% when he is below 50% health instead of 25%.

This is a minor enhancement to Garen, but it would allow him to have better sustain, especially at lower health, during the laning phase.

"Show Them the Strength of Demacia!: At level 18, enemy champion, turret, & epic monster damage no longer stops Perseverance.

This is a MAJOR change, and the reason for it is two-fold:

1. Garen's passive gets better at each stage of the game, so it only makes sense for it to reach its peak at its final stage:
Levels 1-10: Everything besides minion damage stops Perseverance.
Levels 11-17: Everything besides minion & non-epic monster damage stops Perseverance. So, in following suit with his ability to regenerate through additional sources of damage later on in the game, it should follow that any additional sources don’t stop his passive because he has reached his full strength.
Level 18: Nothing stops Perseverance.
1. Garen doesn't have in-combat sustain, so this gives him that.

Q - Decisive Strike (Without clear engage, makes movement more functional in game & enhances outplay potential)

"I Will Lead the Charge": At level 11 & after, Garen's Q now also grants slow immunity for the first second of activation.

While against a single champion, a one-time slow cleanse is useful. But against multiple enemies with multiple slows, it can be more difficult to time that slow cleanse properly. Brief slow immunity during the teamfighting phase of the game would give Garen the engage, or disengage, he needs to be relevant in a fight.

"Charge!": Garen receives 30-50% increased movement speed (based on champion level) when activated.

Garen doesn't have initiation like Zac or Jarvan do. This is just who Garen is. But, he has his Q. Increasing his Q MS would allow him to match the speed that other champions can get innately (through abilities, not just items), because sometimes he can't get away from or catch up to them otherwise.
In Garen's bio-story "The Soldier and the Hag", the Lady of the Stones remarks how she didn’t expect the speed with which Garen charged at her, so it would only make sense that this speed is reflected in the actual game.

Alternatively, it could be: Q Active: Garen breaks free of all slows affecting him, & gains 60% movement speed & slow immunity for the frirst 0.75 seconds of duration. Then, he gains 30% movement speed for the remaining duration (1.5/2/2.5/3/3.5 seconds) and his next basic attack within 4.5 seconds sielnces his opponent for 1.5 seconds and deals bonus damage.

"Justice, by Law, or by Sword": Garen's Q animation is now a complete auto attack reset (instantly triggering another auto attack).

Garen’s Decisive Strike is more stylish than practical. In a game where an auto attack can be the difference between securing a kill or getting killed, having to wait for a delayed animation to go through can be the reason a fight is lost.

"The scoundrels will pay!": Garen's silence against an enemy champion also disarms them, preventing them from basic attacking for the duration (1.5 seconds).

A silence is not always useful in a teamfight; a silence against an enemy mage prevents them from casting their abilities (their main source of damage & utility). However, silencing an enemy auto attacker (i.e. Vayne / any ADC), is less impactful as they can still auto attack while silenced. Disarming & silencing any target he hits makes him relevant in any teamfight.
The official Garen v.s. Katarina animation shows Garen’s Decisive Strike breaking Katarina’s blades, momentarily disarming her. This matches that story.

W - Courage (Extended combat survival)

"I will fight as long as I stand!": While on CD, each instance of taking damage that would put Perseverance on CD reduces the CD on his W by 1 second.

Champions like Master Yi, Katarina, & Darius get CD decreases or resets when they do certain things (Yi reduces his Alpha Strike with Basic Attacks, & kills reduce/reset abilities for Katarina & Darius). This allows them to outplay opponents and come back from the brink when they would otherwise die. Garen doesn't have anything like this, and it is often the case he cannot survive long enough to recast his abilities. This gives him the chance to survive long enough to continue fighting & be victorious.

E - Judgment (In-combat sustain)

"Battle the Infamy": Garen reinvigorates his conviction through combat, healing for 2.5% of his maximum health for each hit of Judgment against enemy champions & epic monsters (up to 25%) after it finishes or is cancelled. Additionally, the first time an enemy chapion is hit by Judgment, they are disarmed (prevented from auto-attacking) for 1 second

Without some form of in-combat sustain through his passive, Garen makes himself vulnerable by engaging on the enemy team because his Judgment requires him to be in close proximity to his targets. If Garen's only function in a fight is “Spin-to-Win”, then that spinning should at least keep him alive. Also, that spinning should provide some teamfight utility, hence, the 1 second disarm.

R - Demacian Justice (More impactful True Villain mechanic & better execute)

Passive - The True Villain: Garen marks the enemy champion with the most kills (changed from highest killing spree) as the Villain, causing his basic attacks and each spin of Judgment against them to deal 1/2/3% (increases with skill point level) of the target's maximum health as bonus true damage.

When an enemy Vayne or Master Yi has 15 kills but the enemy Nami recently cleaned up a fight and is the True Villain, Garen's ability to focus the enemy that REALLY matters is more limited. This eliminates that issue by focusing the most relevant enemy target on a consistent basis.
Also, increased damage helps with that.

Active - "Victory Awaits": Garen calls upon the might of Demacia to attempt to execute an enemy champion. After a brief channel, he deals 175/350/525 true damage (not magic) plus 30/35/40% (slightly increased damage) of the target's missing health. If he kills an enemy this way, Garen regenerates 15% of his maximum health (+ 5% for each additional nearby enemy champion - up to 35%) over the next 5 seconds.

If Darius' ult ALWAYS deals true damage, then Garen's should too (Darius gets to use it multiple times potentially; Garen only gets it once). Darius (& Pyke) get to use their ultimates multiple times. While I'm not saying Garen should, I'm saying he should get SOMETHING from it - hence, health regen.
Demacia, as a society, is against the use of Magic, so then why would Garen (when calling upon the strength of Demacia) deal MAGIC damage? This just actually goes against everything he & Demacia stand for.

Garen should be a SCARY champ; in the early game he is not as strong, but the later the game goes, the stronger he gets. When enemies are far away from him, they feel safe, but if they are close by, they should be legitimately concerned about facing death very quickly. These enhancements would provide players the feeling that Garen IS relevant in any game is he played in, and that whether you like him or not, you respect the potential threat he represents.

If you have gotten this far, thank you. I know that was a lengthy read, so please be sure to leave a comment below. I would greatly appreciate the feedback.

[garen-swing]

8 Comments

Warlord RhinarkJun 7, 20182 votes

What?

No crit on his E anymore?

Literally unplayable

GaliöJun 6, 20181 votes

Disarm and silence would make Garen busted in the lane phase...

PiggyTheAstroJun 6, 20181 votes

I do agree that Garen is trash in laning, and not that good in teamfights, so, let's talk about your suggestions (I hope they'll be awesome :D)

1)His sustain is good enough, I can just stand under my ~~tower~~turret (why am I saying tower, it's not SMITE) and rapidly regen hp, it's not Mundo or Volibear level, but good enough.

2)Putting slow immunity on Garen's Q is enough to make him A tier, and this is just the beginning...

3)Making it also disarm completely shuts down a big chunk of top laners, leave his Q with slow immunity.

4)Yi and Katarina are junglers, and Darius is top tier, Garen can already dive turrets easily, no need for a buff to his W

5)I'd actually like a slow on his E, seems fair and fun to play against

6)The Villain mechanic is broken, and not by it being OP, but by being useless, your lane opponent (assuming Garen is top lane) will really rarely become the villain, guess who it will be? The ADC, roaming all the way to bot lane and back will make Garen miss out on A LOT of CC. Rework it into something else.

7)If Garen's ult was NOT an execute, your suggestion would be fine, but an execute which executes on % AND can repeat is OP assuming all the buffs I agreed with above got implemented.

DeathBurstJun 7, 20181 votes

Slow on E sounds like a terrible experience to play against, once he tags you, you can't do anything but stay inside the E and suffer the full damage of it? This skill was already lacking counterplay, adding a slow would only enhance the problem.

What makes you say it would be "fair and fun"?

Also, regarding the Villain mechanic, I grant you that it's not fun to play with because you have very little agency. There is only one question (at most), do I go for the Villain or for the carry? And sometimes not even that, because they can be the same target. And it's not an interesting question, because it often has a clear, right or wrong answer. And it's not fun to play against either, because there is no counterplay except "stay very far from Garen".

So overall? Not a successful mechanic. But a "useless" mechanic? Certainly not. It's useless in lane. But laning isn't the whole game. In mid-game skirmishes it's extremely strong, and even in late-game fights it acts as some sort of clean-up mechanic, because it bounces instantly. As soon as you get a takedown on the Villain, the next worst enemy is tagged with it, without CD or cooking-up time (à la Kindred mark). If you can take down the enemies in the "right order", you can have the Villain bonus on 3-4 opponents for the same fight, and this is a reason to sometimes go for the Villain first even if it's not the priority target. Actually recognizing those cases is 80% of Garen skill-cap.

The Villain Passive is in a strange spot. Since it's very unreliable and swingy, it doesn't account for a large part of his power-budget, and removing it wouldn't give much room for buff. But when luck is on your side (and you know how to seize the opportunity), it can be extremely powerful. I think it's a bad design, but claiming it's useless is wrong.

DeathBurstJun 7, 20181 votes

I'm sorry, but these suggestions are really, REALLY out of line.

Yes, Garen has all the problems you mentioned in your intro. But if you solve them all with buffs, now Garen has no weakness at all. You proposed something like a dozen different buffs, without any compensation anywhere, and that would pretty simply make Garen totally OP.

I mean, some of your buffs would single-handedly make him OP, for that matter. You're proposing to give Garen something similar to a PERMANENT Mundo R, among other things. That's enough to make pretty much any champion OP. Of course this is just a paper kit, numbers don't have to be final, but you're suggesting 16%/5s regen, Mundo R is 40%/5s, but it costs 25% current HP on activation, lasts only 12s and has a 90s CD.

And this is just one example, some are more reasonable, but some others are just as broken.

You have to realize that Garen isn't weak right now for most of the player base. He's hard to pull off at more competitive levels, but he's currently at 53% winrate, so he's fine in Bronze-Gold (a.k.a. 90% of the player base). He's even borderline OP already in Bronze, and pick/ban in 3v3. He can't afford such buffs.

Of course, if you try to solve his many problems, you're likely to buff him in the process, but you should make sure that a) you're buffing him more in the hands of experienced/skilled players, and/or b) that you compensate-nerf him elsewhere. A blanket buff such as permanent health regen or straight up better damage won't fly.

Again, I'm sorry for the harsh feedback, but those are just the hard cold fact.

OmegasisXJun 7, 20181 votes

Firstly, thank you for taking the time to read this. I appreciate that.

Yes, Garen has all the problems you mentioned in your intro. But if you solve them all with buffs, now Garen has no weakness at all. You proposed something like a dozen different buffs, without any compensation anywhere, and that would pretty simply make Garen totally OP.

Riot has stated that they are having "a larger discussion" when it comes to Garen, meaning they were looking at more ways to improve him. While, yes, I can agree that some of these suggestions may be very powerful, it does not automatically make them unreasonable. Also, just because I proposed all of these suggestion doesn't mean I would expect EVERY SINGLE ONE of them to be implemented - it was more of "I see many issues, here are many suggestions, now let's see what sticks'. OF COURSE having every single one of these would broken. That would be STUPID. That was not my intention.

I mean, some of your buffs would single-handedly make him OP, for that matter. You're proposing to give Garen something similar to a PERMANENT Mundo R, among other things. That's enough to make pretty much any champion OP. Of course this is just a paper kit, numbers don't have to be final, but you're suggesting 16%/5s regen, Mundo R is 40%/5s, but it costs 25% current HP on activation, lasts only 12s and has a 90s CD.

I knew this would be one of the more controversial ones. It was merely an idea, one which I did not fully expect to be implemented. That's the other reason I had his E have "spellvamp" further below.

You have to realize that Garen isn't weak right now for most of the player base. He's hard to pull off at more competitive levels, but he's currently at 53% winrate, so he's fine in Bronze-Gold (a.k.a. 90% of the player base). He's even borderline OP already in Bronze, and pick/ban in 3v3. He can't afford such buffs.

The reason I created this post was to enhance the areas of his kit & teamplay that make him lacking in professional viability. I'm not trying to make him OP up the wazoo.

Of course, if you try to solve his many problems, you're likely to buff him in the process, but you should make sure that a) you're buffing him more in the hands of experienced/skilled players, and/or b) that you compensate-nerf him elsewhere. A blanket buff such as permanent health regen or straight up better damage won't fly.

If we remove the permanent health regen (which, btw, only happened at level 18 - not like it was gonna happen anytime soon), the E slow (I can see how that would be tilting, fair enough), & the CD resets from using R successfully, the rest of these aren't that impractical.

Increased movement speed with champion level is fair for a champion that doesn't have any other form of movement ability.
Slow immunity around teamfighting phase IS fair, especially when a champ like Master Yi or Olaf have slow/CC immunity already at level 6.
Instant auto-attack reset makes Q more viable, as the delayed animation loses fights sometimes.
Disarm & silence is better for an opponent than stun because they still get to move, so not super broken (Leona has stun with Q, so Garen not as threatening).
Reusable W makes him survive longer, ESPECIALLY without in-combat sustain.
Healing on E gives him in-combat sustain. Also, there's a champion in Heroes of the storm who functions similarly to Garen; her main damage source is a spin move, but it also heals her. So, it has been done before.
Slight damage buffs to his Ultimate active & passive aren't that broken, especially considering Pyke & his new ultimate now (lol - if you think Garen is broken...)
Changing the True Villain to be the one with the most kills actually reflects what his Ult's passive is supposed to do - prioritize the most dangerous target on the enemy team. I'm not sure why you say this is "out of line".

Again, I'm sorry for the harsh feedback, but those are just the hard cold fact.

While I don't agree that all of these suggestions are unreasonable, I still say thanks for the feedback.

DeathBurstJun 8, 20182 votes

OF COURSE having every single one of these would broken. That would be STUPID. That was not my intention.

Fair enough, but that wasn't clear in the original post.

The reason I created this post was to enhance the areas of his kit & teamplay that make him lacking **in professional viability. **

I'd be glad if you managed that feat, but I won't hold my breath. I don't believe champs like Garen, Master Yi, Katarina, etc. can be viable in pro. A good thing would be to make them viable in high MMR SoloQ, though, and I think this may be possible.

bullet list of suggestion

So, OK, we seem to agree on what are the truly powerful buffs and what's a bit more reasonable. Still, I can see a number of problems even with your reduced list.

Slow immunity in team-fight is fair, but what about split-push? Giving slow immunity on a basic skill with 5 s CD means Garen is uncatchable while he splits. Forcing Yi or Olaf to use their R after a split attempt is a big deal, forcing Garen to use Q means nothing.
Disarm+Silence is better than stun but there is a clarity issue. Even if you solve that with proper VFX (which isn't trivial and require artist time, which is a strained resource), the current duration is 1.5 s compared to Leona 1 s, so that's still a super strong CC. Don't forget that Leona is mana-gated too, she can't just spam her combo in lane, while Garen can totally Q you on CD, and with a Silence+Disarm you have absolutely no way to retaliate.
Reusable W may indeed be justifiable in the absence of in-combat sustain but giving too much uptime to this skill basically removes the main skill test involved, good timing. I'd much prefer if Garen was actually given some sustain instead.
Healing somewhere on the E skill seems the best way to do it, but straight healing in parallel of damage is probably not the ideal solution. When you look at other Juggernauts, their healing is conditional: Darius and Illaoi need to hit a skill-shot, Udyr works on a 3-proc system, Nasus needs to stack first to have meaningful lifesteal, Volibear and Mundo have a long CD. Yorick and Olaf "just" need to stay in aa range, but they are the more stat-check of the lot, and that's still harder than Garen E, because you need to stop walking to aa, Garen can just run around you while E ticks. Critmaster Garen (another board user) suggested some time ago that the E should give you healing when it stops, based on the number of ticks that hit an enemy champion, and this is the best suggestion I have seen so far.
"Slight number buffs" to his R and passive aren't that broken, but they also do nothing to solve Garen larger issues. Number tuning isn't what we should focus in paper kits. However, changing the damage type from Magic to True is not a "slight number buff", and I don't think it's a good idea. It would buff him mostly against Tanks, which he doesn't need. It would also make him too good against Tank, because it scales with missing HP. Tanks naturally have a lot of HP, so Garen R hits them for very large amount of raw damage. Tanks also having lots of resistance ensures that the actual amount isn't ludicrous, but if the R is true damage, that's not true anymore. You've probably seen an enemy Tank becoming the Villain once in a while, so you know it's not uncommon to hit them with a 1500 True Damage nuke or more. Making this change would make the optimal play 9 times out of 10 to use your R on the enemy frontline, which is a bit underwhelming. It's much more satisfying to execute a carry. And the comparison with Darius isn't fair. Darius R is flat value and is conditional (scales with stacks, and doubly with the AD in the passive with the 5th stack), you can't just flash-in and R someone damaged by your team. Garen could do that, with a %scaling unconditional R, not healthy.
Changing the Villain as you suggest isn't out of line, but it's actually a nerf. I made a long post about the Villain passive in reply to Piggy below, so maybe you didn't see the notification for it. Full post here, https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/LN7AErZA-i-will-lead-the-charge-a-detailed-analysis-of-the-might-of-demacia?comment=00010000 but I'll just copy the relevant part below:

In mid-game skirmishes it's extremely strong, and even in late-game fights it acts as some sort of clean-up mechanic, **because it bounces instantly. **As soon as you get a takedown on the Villain, the next worst enemy is tagged with it, without CD or cooking-up time (à la Kindred mark). If you can take down the enemies in the "right order", you can have the Villain bonus on 3-4 opponents for the same fight, and this is a reason to sometimes go for the Villain first even if it's not the priority target. Actually recognizing those cases is 80% of Garen skill-cap.

Your suggestion would remove that bounce mechanism, so it ensures that you only ever get the Villain bonus against one enemy. I'm not sure whether it's a good thing or not, but my gut feeling is that it isn't. It's frustrating for the one enemy that is permanently tagged, and it removes the part where you have to adapt to who's the Villain. It would make it more reliable, but less overall powerful, and I don't think that's what Garen needs. Not sure though.

Also, there is an overlying theme with your suggestions, where they maintain or reduce Garen skill cap, whereas good changes should increase it, not the contrary. Garen is weak in competitive, but strong in low MMR. Good changes should NOT be flat buffs equally good for everyone, they should be changes that reduce the gap between high and low MMR.

While I don't agree that all of these suggestions are unreasonable, I still say thanks for the feedback.

Well, thank you for the discussion, I'm always happy to talk shop about my main :)

FireWolfYTJun 8, 20181 votes

I have a better idea. Rather than increasing damage on his R, remove the 1 second self root or make it garen-teed to hit when casted. I don't know the amount of times I've had people get away from me in the middle of casting my ult just because they managed to step into a bush or flash into the fog of war before the second is over.