Boards›Gameplay

Support Items

Zankren·4/7/2017, 3:59:50 PM·10 votes·35,205 views

The problem with support itemization is that there simply aren't enough choices available to supports. When basically every support is building item 3107 + item 3190, either those items are completely OP or there just aren't enough viable alternatives. You can certainly argue item 3107 was OP on release. But after waves of nerfs, I think the problem lies with the rest of the support items. Look at the other options.

item 3504 - This is one of the only other support items that's currently viable. It's a niche item for shielding/healing supports, but is well balanced for those that can take full advantage of it.

item 3109 - This is the other viable support item. It's a good option for tankier supports.

item 3060 - I remember before its rework when supports actually used to build this thing. Even then it wasn't common. item 3190 is such a better item for anyone building tanky. I'd like to see Banner return to a semi-tanky AP support item. Something like item 3105 + item 3108 + 200g (2200g total) = 30 armor, 30 MR, 40 AP, 10% CDR and the Promote active.

item 3222 - I haven't seen this in over a year. CC hasn't gone anywhere, but the current stats make it hard to justify building on anyone. Adding AP should remedy this. I see two potential build paths. The one I like more is item 3028 + item 3108 + 500g (2300g total) = 40 AP, 40 MR, 50% mana regen, 10% CDR, the Harmony passive, and Cleanse active. The other possible build is much like item 3504, something like item 3114 + item 3113 + 450g (2100g total) = 40 AP, 50% mana regen, 10% CDR, +10% shield/heal power, +8% mov. speed, and the Cleanse active. Either path would make it more viable for AP supports but not powerful enough for AP carries to want to pick up (especially given that the cleanse can't be cast on yourself).

item 3056 - I build this once on a tank support, and it's the only time I've ever seen it in game. I like the idea of an HP, armor, CDR item with a supportive active/passive, this just didn't hit the mark. Maybe do away with the active and give it the old Captain boots enchantment as a passive to aid your team in following up on your engage. I don't really have a good idea of how to make this item viable though.

item 3050 - The problem I've always had with this item is the level of coordination needed in order for the item's passive to be useful. It's not something you ever get in Solo Q, and even in pro play we haven't seen this item in a very long time. Do away with the binding portion of the passive and turn it into a targetable active. UNIQUE Active - Conduit: Increases target ally's ability power and attack damage by 20% for 8 seconds. This change might actually make the item too strong, so decreasing the active to 6 seconds, giving it a high cooldown, or making the item more expensive may be needed. But however they balance it, the item will now be useful.

These are just a few thoughts on how to bring more variability back to support itemization. None are meant to be final, more to stir up thoughts and hopefully get the ball moving.

37 Comments

ChaddyFantome4/7/2017, 4:56:45 PM2 votes

{quoted}

The problem with support itemization is that there simply aren't enough choices available to supports.

Not exactly. the problem is that the other options arent good enough to compete with the top dogs.

item 3174 and item 3050 are great items. They are just a bit on the weak side and thus dont warrant getting them over other items, amely Redemption and Locket.

When basically every support is building item 3107 + item 3190, either those items are completely OP or there just aren't enough viable alternatives. You can certainly argue item 3107 was OP on release. But after waves of nerfs, I think the problem lies with the rest of the support items. Look at the other options.

its a little of both really. Tho i find Locket is more just being picked because it synergyzes very strong with Redemption moreso than it being OP on its own, Redemption is just so enticing that it crowds out every other support item.

While I do agree it is in a balanced spot right now, its flexibility is just so potent that i can rarely find a situation where I feel getting another item over it was the right call.

Locket on the other hand I find less enticing than items such as item 3504 i don't always get it second at all. I am fine with Redemption being "the best Support item" I guess but maybe we need another to compete with it as opposed to trying to make every support item to compete in its space. Even just 1 support item that you had to choose between it or redemption would solve any issues with the item crowding out inventories.

item 3504 - This is one of the only other support items that's currently viable. It's a niche item for shielding/healing supports, but is well balanced for those that can take full advantage of it.

Agreed. Ardent Censor is fine as is and doesnt need changes.

item 3109 - This is the other viable support item. It's a good option for tankier supports.

Agreed, tho I wish it gave CDR without making it abusable on non support champs :/ O well.

item 3060 - I remember before its rework when supports actually used to build this thing. Even then it wasn't common. item 3190 is such a better item for anyone building tanky. I'd like to see Banner return to a semi-tanky AP support item. Something like item 3105 + item 3108 + 200g (2200g total) = 30 armor, 30 MR, 40 AP, 10% CDR and the Promote active.

I agree. Cant argue with this at all.

item 3222 - I haven't seen this in over a year. CC hasn't gone anywhere, but the current stats make it hard to justify building on anyone.

Agreed.

Adding AP should remedy this. I see two potential build paths. The one I like more is item 3028 + item 3108 + 500g (2300g total) = 40 AP, 40 MR, 50% mana regen, 10% CDR, the Harmony passive, and Cleanse active. The other possible build is much like item 3504, something like item 3114 + item 3113 + 450g (2100g total) = 40 AP, 50% mana regen, 10% CDR, +10% shield/heal power, +8% mov. speed, and the Cleanse active. Either path would make it more viable for AP supports but not powerful enough for AP carries to want to pick up (especially given that the cleanse can't be cast on yourself).

I don't like trying to tune it to enchanters specifically personally. I would very much like to see it not build out of item 3028 anymore tho.

item 3056 - I build this once on a tank support, and it's the only time I've ever seen it in game. I like the idea of an HP, armor, CDR item with a supportive active/passive, this just didn't hit the mark. Maybe do away with the active and give it the old Captain boots enchantment as a passive to aid your team in following up on your engage. I don't really have a good idea of how to make this item viable though.

The thing is, Ohmwrecker's Turret active is its entire Identity, not its statline. Honestly, they just need to make it give you resistances when under enemy turrets and shuffle the stats around accordingly and make the animation for its active flashier and cooler and people will start building it.

item 3050 - The problem I've always had with this item is the level of coordination needed in order for the item's passive to be useful. It's not something you ever get in Solo Q, and even in pro play we haven't seen this item in a very long time. Do away with the binding portion of the passive and turn it into a targetable active. UNIQUE Active - Conduit: Increases target ally's ability power and attack damage by 20% for 8 seconds. This change might actually make the item too strong, so decreasing the active to 6 seconds, giving it a high cooldown, or making the item more expensive may be needed. But however they balance it, the item will now be useful.

These are just a few thoughts on how to bring more variability back to support itemization. None are meant to be final, more to stir up thoughts and hopefully get the ball moving.

I'm not a fan of this change.

First off, making it give flat AD is a BAD idea as it will force the item to be mandatory on every support as a stat check alone. Making it an active isn't too bad, but making it activate immediately upon activation is. Another issue is it removes the buff it provides to the support using it as well, as the %AP boost is supposed to be for the supp to get stronger as well.

The item fell out of prominence when the marksman update gave them all easier access to crit, making building it redundant. This along with its lackluster statline and weird build path are why it isn't being built

Changing to from giving Crit chance to Crit DAMAGE, as well as making it build out of Seakers and an Amptome and giving 60 AP will be enough to fix it.

Making the active a delayed channel like item 3814 that doesn't get interrupted will be a good compromise to the issues with its ease of use, but keep the tether aspect so Midlaners dont start abusing the item.

chipndip14/7/2017, 4:08:32 PM1 votes

Knight's Vow is basically just filler. Locket does that item's job three times over.

Zankren4/7/2017, 9:29:33 PM1 votes

Nah man, I completely agree. I was hoping to get some discussion about the other support items in hopes it might lead to changing that issue.

ModKnightsKemplar4/7/2017, 10:17:08 PM1 votes

I'm really encouraged by the recent stuff I'm seeing out of Meddler. A few months ago, when they did the full free support rotation, he all but admitted there are serious problems with the support role.

Now, they've put out a survey asking people what they would rather call supports. Honestly, I still want to call it support, but I LOVE that they are talking about the role. He said that the big gameplay problems needed to be fixed, and that gives me a lot of hope for the role. If they are able to get three class updates out this year, I am optimistic that support will be one of them. Last year, I realize they only did two. But a man can dream.

Erockandroll4/8/2017, 2:55:57 PM1 votes

Has anyone tried to categorize the variety of support items? That might be helpful in facilitating what needs to be looked at.

Me personally, I would personally put support itemization into one of 3 categories. Core, True, and Hybrid support items.

Core items: are items that help the support fill their role in the bot lane. (e.g. Your GP10 and sighstone)

True support items: Offer a Strong supportive utility, designed to be more "Stat androgynous" and workable on any type of support. (Redemption and locket fall here)

Hybrid items: Items that combined decent Stats with a specific utility that usually helps a particular class of support. (Censor for enchanters, and Knights vow for Tanks)

Note that I am not including any kind of Budget Mpen item, or Tank item as they are not exclusively Support items.

My over all appraisal is pretty much that the hybrid items fall short compared to true support items. And yet, there's not enough variation within the true support item class. However, buffing the hybrid items has a risk of making those items too potent in non supports hands.

SwiftKitten884/9/2017, 12:13:45 AM1 votes

i agree that item 3107 and item 3190 are too strong

item 3504 and item 3109 i think are fine

item 3222 i would lower the % extra healing and shielding to 10% and give it like 50 ap

item 3056 just needs to be deleted...

item 3050 has some DECENT stats, its just its passive is worthless. not because the STRENGTH pf the passive is bad... the STRENGTH pf the passive is really good... its just the passive is IMPOSSIBLE to use. if u don't have voice chat with the person you link it to you will NEVER get it active. and even if u HAVE voice chat the chancing of it activating when u need it to are also next to zero. you cant leave range to delay the activation until a fight because it goes down to zero if u do and the range is so small the begin with that like i said u would need voice chat to even stay in range.

i would increase the range to match item 3109 and weaken the passive and make it always stay on... OR make it so that it doesn't go down to zero when u leave range and ALSO make it you have 10 seconds to manually activate it when it reaches max.. instead if it happening instantly. because not only is it hard to get ti activate if it finally DOES activate you want to go in right then and that time is NORMALLY a bad time to go in meaning you think you have the advantage because of the active your your relying screwing yourself over because you choose a bad time to go in because that's when the active was up.. if we had a 10 second window to activate it would allow is to go in at the proper time

La Belle Sauvage4/7/2017, 4:07:10 PM1 votes

Is this a repost?

ZT Xperimentor4/10/2017, 2:29:00 PM1 votes

Two items being overpowered? Doubt it, besides it's not like other items have driven the meta for years being built on everyone of that class. Agree that alternatives are pathetic in comparison though.