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What is the point of learning new champions to get chests?

Namid S··10 votes·1,987 views

League of legends is an incredibly fun game, and the honor system was an amazing addition in order for riot games to give back to the player base. But I need someone to help me understand why instead of a scaling rewards system for champions that people like to play, because Riot want's people to enjoy the game, we are forced to play more than one game of champions we have no interest in. I understand that Riot doesn't want rewards to be handouts necessarily, but is it really optimal to have people playing and trying at random champions that they wouldn't play otherwise?

In my proposal, we make the system a little easier for people to get rewards while still keeping the same amount of grind work for boxes, just making it more enjoyable and less of an unnecessary hassle. When you get a chest for a specific champion, and you also have mastery 5 or above on said champion, then you can get boxes for that champion as much as you want but each new box would add an additional S required until you reach a number predetermined by Riot. I think that this would prevent people from abusing the system while also making sure that the grindwork for earning chests remains intact. Let's face it, there is nothing fun about playing champs just to earn boxes, especially if you think that the champions aren't fun, because at the end of the day League of Legends is a GAME and game's should always be enjoyable. Unless it's Dark Soul's for all the masochists out there.

For anyone who says "just get someone to carry you" why would i want to subject another person to having to do well for the both of us when I don't have any clue as to playing a champion, when I could earn a box comfortably without having to practice a champion I'm only going to play for superficial reasons? If Riot games were to implement a system similar to this people wouldn't play any fewer games, They would just be happy knowing there's no pressure to learn new champions for no reason other than a one time S rank.

Thank you for reading to this point if you have, and I would appreciate any kind of criticism you have for me in the comments, although please refrain from useless comments such as "you should be glad they even have rewards" or "get good" unless you have substantial additions to those type of statements. Or if you just feel like trolling, I know that some people in the community just like to spew garbage so if that's how you get off then by all means. I am not a good League player and I will not pretend to be, but I would love it if the rewards system was geared towards playing with your favorite champions, instead of playing random champions that you do not like and have no interest in other than getting a chest and moving on. Unless there is a good reason that we potentially shouldn't enjoy the game when we are grinding for chests, which I would love to hear anyone give.

No one is going to stop playing league or play League less if the chests are less of a useless hassle to acquire, they will only enjoy getting them more because they are rewarded for great play with their FAVORITE champions. Thank you once again if you read to here,

49 Comments

Darkdemon6533 votes

[{quoted}](name=Namid S,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LIUnElLz,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-09-13T21:22:37.480+0000)

we are forced to play more than one game of champions we have no interest in

Outside of ARAM, I haven't played a single game as anyone other than Nasus in the past three years.

Namid S3 votes

Ok

DemainaNyx1 votes

Chest are free skins. Riot is being nice by offering a way for people to earn things you would otherwise purchase for free. They are not forcing you to get them, it's just them offering a way for people who don't want to spend money on the game to get some rewards for playing.

Namid S2 votes

Ok, now can you answer the question in the title of the post now? I mean anyone can spew rhetoric but do you have an actual answer to the original question? I would love to hear it.

DemainaNyx1 votes

So you can learn more about the game. Did you know the first damage Braum takes with his shield is completely negated? So you can use it to dodge stuff like Karthus ult. This is the stuff you learn by, shockingly, playing other champions.

Your complaint is that you have to play another champ to get a chest. Except, you don't. Just like the daily bonus things most games offer aren't something you have to do, it's just something that's nice. If you don't want the skins, then don't try to get chests.

Namid S2 votes

Ok fine playing new champions and not having fun is required for earning the chests that I want and that riot wants to give to me. Because riot wants us to have free stuff, but only if we're willing to sacrifice fun to take the time to meticulously learn new things about champs we never plan on playing beyond one S rank. Thank you.

DemainaNyx1 votes

If Riot wanted to give you the chests, they'd do just that. They wouldn't require you to play the game well. They'd say, "Oh, you logged in, have a chest."

It's a reward for playing well on multiple champions, something that is difficult for a reason. If you don't enjoy it, don't do it.

Namid S2 votes

Your right, Riot games hates everyone in bronze elo and thinks no one in bronze should get rewards. Your right sorry I agree with you. Riot hates bronze elo players and wants them to get nothing. My mistake, you are correct.

Seriously though, rewards are not for only good players. That's awfully pretentious of you. I think they jumped the gun like they do with plenty of things in the game, and the system could be tweaked to better suit ALL players not just experts like yourself.

Kai Guy1 votes

Alternatively rather then look at it as insulting to less skilled players why not consider it positive reinforcement? They do it as an incentive, its to get folks to strive to hit that S ranked and put in time to grind out a champions mechanics. Its a reward to players who put time into a champion and show that they learned from it and grew.

Namid S2 votes

And what about the people who only play league for fun? They don't deserve chests by that logic then am I right? Which I may remind you casual players are the majority of the player base, and I don't think they deserve to be punished for not wanting to be hardcore players do you?

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

People investing more time in a game will get more rewards. That's how it is in every game.

Namid S1 votes

Yeah that's called Influence points, they already have a system in place to give people rewards for playing the game more often. But hextech crafting made no such correlation between "only being for people who want to play the game competitively" which you seem to imply. It was a system for EVERYONE get a little something back from Riot for playing the game, not for ranked guru's to have more of a reason to hone their skills, more pretentiousness from you I see?

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

First, stop with this "ranked guru" stuff. I have a champion pool 33 champions and got chests for every of them and I never play ranked at all. If you know which are the deciding factors, achieving S grades as someone who is exclusively playing normal games isn't that hard.

Second, there is nothing wrong with locking rewards behind achievements. It is reasonable to make people put some effort in trying to get these instead of just handing these rewards out for everyone for simply logging in.

Namid S1 votes

Yes but where is the fun in learning the parameters in the system as to receive an S rank on a champion, especially one that you don't want to play in the first place? How often do you play league if I might ask, because I am almost completely positive you ignore the vast majority of 1-2 game a day players when forming your rationale.

And on your second point, find the place where I said "riot should be giving us boxes for nothing, just hand them out for free". On the CONTRARY my friend, I want their to be STRICT achievement parameters applied to playing champions to get more than one box for them, because hextech crafting is FREE so why must it ultimately effect our play style seeing as it's supposed to be for all players equally? The casuals and the tryhards, no one deserves to have the system favor them more.

DemainaNyx1 votes

I love how it's "pretentious of me" for assuming that everyone is capable of playing this game well. It's not that complicated.

I literally played one game of Taliyah and got an S. I don't play that champ and I don't play mid lane. Know how I got it? I played her support. Because if I play her mid, I have to compete with the 1,000,000 Taliyah mains to get an S, who know her kit inside and out and can do things I can't even comprehend. However, since she isn't played support, it's much easier to get an S rank cause it's only comparing me to the 1000 or so support games.

Abusing this system isn't that hard, you just don't want to do it, which you don't have to. But if you don't want to, you don't get free stuff. Which shouldn't hurt you cause why would you want a free skin for a champion you are never going to play anyway.

Namid S1 votes

Ok great that's one box, now how about all the other ones that are available to us? Look man, We can agree to disagree, I think we should be able to grind our boxes however we want, you don't. That's perfectly fine.

But once again, why should the system need to be ABUSED to get a chest? That doesn't seem like something Riot would want. But you might know something I don't know.

DemainaNyx1 votes

I never said I liked Riots system, I just said the way it is isn't that hard to work around. If anything, your system requires more games to get chests, something that casual probably can't afford to do, while this one just requires you play well once.

They probably don't want their system abused, but the way they designed it allows for it. It compares you to everyone who plays that champion in that role. So if you play Soraka ADC, Top, Mid, or Jungle, you'll have an easier time getting a chest than you will playing Soraka Support because most people play her support.

Or, because they reward people for a premade getting an S, get a group of people together and play. That way, if one of you gets an S that game, you all get a chest for whatever champion you are playing. That's how I got an S on Zac, since I got autofilled into Jungle and my top lane main friend got an S that game so I got a chest even though I only got a C on Zac.

Namid S1 votes

This system requires you to play well once that is true, but playing well once on a champion that you have no experience or interest in vs playing well multiple times with a champion that you good at and enjoy playing, which one would be more satisfying to the average player? The one that let's the player use their 1-2 games a day enjoying their games.

Yes, the system can be abused but your not telling me why you have a problem with a system that you don't have to abuse to get the same results as abusing it.

It's not that easy to just get a group of people together and play, but let me ask you this: was the game your talking about a ranked game? Because if someone is using a champ that they have little to no experience with would you want them in your ranked game? Either way a group of friends playing ranked has one of two objectives: play to win or play for fun. If they are playing to win you wouldn't be appreciated using champions you aren't good with, if they are playing for fun you probably won't get the chest for that game.

DemainaNyx1 votes

That's a matter of opinion. Some people love one tricking, and some want to learn everything about a game. You want to one trick, so of course you want a system that works with that. People who want to know all parts of the game would be hurt by your system.

And no, none of the games were ranked game. I played Zac jungle in a normal and Taliyah support in a normal, because I don't know how to play these champions.

Ranked is for comparing your best to everyone elses best. So if you are playing a champion you know nothing about, you are hurting your team by playing it in ranked because they are expecting that you are playing your best champion. Ranked should always be where you play to win.

Normals, however, have no ranking system to show your skill. People will still want to win, but playing something you don't know in a normal shouldn't surprise your allies because normals is there you go to practice. I mean, you can practice vs AI, but that's not the same.

Additionally, in normals, you can group up with 4 friends, meaning you all could play something random, and if any of you get an S, you all get a chest. Or if you know that one of you can get an S easy, have them play the champion they are really good at, and the rest of you play something random to get your free chests.

Namid S1 votes

I want my system to be combined with the old system so your entire point is irrelevant.

DemainaNyx1 votes

So you want it to increase the chance to get chests, thereby increase the amount of free stuff that Riot normally charges for. So, you essentially want Riot to hand out chests. Got it.

Namid S1 votes

Ok man whatever you say

DariusDemiurge1 votes

You really going to spam this every few hours?

Namid S2 votes

Your giving your attention to me, so others are aswell.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Keep in mind: Riot is a business.

Someone who is just playing a single champion and refuses to even learn another one, is less likely to purchase skins from them for example. Because if you just play that one champion, you just want skins for that one champion. Granting you the same chances for free skins than someone who plays alot more champions doesn't make sense then, since it just decreases their chance of you purchasing something from them even more.

The current system makes you learn new champions, and eventually enjoy these champions. And if you enjoy more champions, chances are that you want to purchase skins for these as well.

And before someone thinks that I want to call Riot greedy: That's absolutely not my intent. In the end, they never force you to buy anything, they are handing out content completely for free, even skins with the chest system. But if there is a chance making you play with the idea of buying a skin more oftenly, why shouldn't they do it? In the end, they are a company and have to make money to keep this game we are enjoying running.

Namid S2 votes

If the INTENT of Riot games is to make people play more champions in order to buy skins for more champions then it's not really free is it? It's an investment into future skin sales and that is all so wouldn't that make them greedy in your words? People who buy skins are going to buy skins and people who don't buy skins aren't going to, regardless of what happens to pop up in a hextech crafting box.

The current system does NOT make you enjoy more champions, the chance is there but it doesn't inherently make you ENJOY champions no matter how much you play them just because you are required to. All the content that can be bought for IP can't be considered extra content for the chest system, only the roughly 40-50% chance you actually get a skin and the 1% chance that it's a skin for your perspective champion is free content that can only be acquired with money.

Sure if someone diversifies their champion pool that's fantastic but if someone works for a living and only has time for one blind pick game a day why should they be excluded from really being able to utilize the crafting system, especially since they are the people who actually HAVE the money!

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Yes, it is an investment into more future skin sales. That doesn't make them greedy in my eyes, since if you are buying a skin or not is still completely in your hand. I don't call a company greedy for sending an advertisement in TV and that fulfills the exact same intent: they are investing money into future product sales.

People who buy skins are going to buy skins and people who don't buy skins aren't going to.

Can say from personal experience: Not entirely true. Me and a friend of mine, we both started playing this game with the mindset of not spending money in it since it is a free game. But when Riot added the hextech crafting system and we got skins for free (yes, we both actually got skins out of it we wanted, I even got Spirit Guard Udyr), we changed that, since we respected Riot for even providing something like skins for free.

Yes, it is random and therefore you have to be lucky. But we still highly appreciated that they added this feature at all and that made us change our mind and purchase something from time to time.

And if these people "who actually HAVE the money" are getting the same amount of chests like someone playing more champions (who therefore would potentionally want more skins since his champ pool is bigger), it is more unlikely that these people are buying a skin, since their chance of getting the skins they want from chests is higher.

Namid S1 votes

So hextech crafting is just a monetary advertisement? Not a way to give back to the community? That's an extremely jaded view of the development team but you might be right. I do appreciate that they added this feature, I'm just saying that hextech crafting participation and ranked queue preparation shouldn't be the same thing.

To your point about more champions purchasing skins for a higher champion pool, just because you have a high champion pool doesn't mean you like the champion enough to buy a skin for them. There's no one that will see a new skin they like and say "oh wow i cant wait till i get that in crafting" either. Crafting skins is such a 1 out of 100 thing that people will still buy all the skins they actually WANT, and anything they get from crafting has such a low chance of being what they want that there is very little causation to whether or not people will buy less skins because of it.

You also seem to make the assumption that SEEING SOMEONE play a champion wouldn't make someone else want to try the champion, which is what was done since the beginning of league and will still be done throughout all of hextech crafting.

All I want is to not have the system require me to play games I potentially would not enjoy. I'm not going to drag through games with a champion I don't like and then say "yeah I'll buy a skin for this guy". That's irrational.

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Having a higher champion pool does not necessarily mean that you like these champions enough to buy skins for them, that is correct.

But is the chance higher that you are buying a skin if you play 10 champions instead of just 1? Statistically, yes, it is. And that's the benefit. The more champions you play, the higher the chances that you are going to buy something. It is not just an advertisement, it is giving back the community too. Even if you just play a single champion, you still got content for free, didn't you? You got that hextech chest and opened it.

And you don't have to play champions you don't enjoy. I am just playing champions I personally like and got chests for all of them. I actually have chests available right now. But I simply accepted that this is the maximum number of chests I will get in this season and will patiently wait for the reset.

No one is forcing you to get every chest available except yourself. If you feel the need to get every chest, work for it and play other champs. If the chests are not worthy the effort for you, just let it be, like I do.

Namid S1 votes

Most people only buy skins for their favorite champions, so there's that. Your using such an idealistic approach and refuse to accept the reality of the situation, try to see things in a pragmatic way; Riot games changing the hextech box system would not only negatively effect skin sales by a probable less than 1%, but it would undoubtedly inspire more happiness in the community and inspire positive skin sales just like your personal experience which made you buy more skin's when you and your friend unlocked great skins for yourselves.

If you can honestly tell me you wouldn't appriciate a hextech system that rewards you for playing what you want everytime instead of having to change your playstyle which, humour me here, you might not want or even have time to do then I'll end this argument with you here and now.

Why should we have to waste boxes just because we aren't skilled enough to get them? Isn't that biased for high elo ranked players?

Chembaron Yamada1 votes

Why is that biased for high elo ranked players? The grade system has nothing to do with your elo, I am unranked and doubt that I would even reach gold rank right now. Still got all my chests in this season.

And since when is it wrong to reward players for being skilled? That's like saying someone who invested the effort to become a doctor should get the same salary like a post man, because otherwise it would be biased for the higher educated citizens.

Namid S1 votes

Ok, I apologize for exaggerating, but it doesn't change the fact that the majority of League players do not have time to sit and figure out how to get better at the game for the arbitrary reason of getting one S on a champion and never playing said champion again.

What your talking about is not rewards for being more skilled, it's rewards for having more time to invest in to the game to get more skills which most people don't have time to do. Most league players live in the real world not on the rift, and they have busy lives and schedule's which boil league of legends down to being a luxury. Why should they have a harder time getting rewards because they have lives outside of a video game?

And no, comparing a doctor to a league of legends player is not an accurate representation: a doctor provides an invaluable service to humanity, but what do we provide to humanity by playing League?

Kai Guy1 votes

Because you cant expect folks to do the smart thing and learn every champions kit by reading it online but getting it down to muscle memory sticks around for years. Its a shiny way to encourage folks to learn champions and their kits, and to help get folks to branch out their pool. Also i want to point out its good business side because some folks are gonna find new champs they love and main and snag skins or just burn the RP on a new champ. As A Moba developer there is no reason riot should want to see their player base exclusively 1 tricking champions. Encouraging folks to learn and master other champions and roles is knowledge and helps them improve.

Namid S2 votes

Why do people need to learn new champions and their kits if they are only playing one or two games a day for a bit of fun before/after work/school? Which may i remind you is the MAJORITY of the player base. Most League players don't play competitively themselves, so why should they have to follow competitive guidelines for getting crafting bonuses if all they want is to have a bit of fun in their spare time? I understand you may not have a job and you may play League for hours on end in order to learn the finer intricacies of the game mechanics, but for the average person that isn't the case, so why should they be virtually punished for playing less than you?

Around999People1 votes

Personally, I believe that the current system does work well. Rewards should be things which are fairly difficult to achieve and the need to play different champions comes with something else. As you play more champions your understanding of the game gets better. You know how to play certain champions fairly well and thus you learn how to play against them. Furthermore, as your skill with various champions increases so does your potential champion pool. If you're someone who cannot play mid (like me) and you decide to try and get a chest for a champion who's best at mid you'll improve in the lane so if you get auto-filled into mid in the future you'll be able to help the team rather than be an anchor.

So, it's just a way to motivate players to try new things. While winning games is a reward enough for you playing your one trick.

Namid S2 votes

Auto-filled into mid? What about the majority of people who don't rank and only play Blind summoners rift and Arams for fun? They should be penalized because they have no desire to pursue competitive League? The people who only play one or two games per day for fun is VASTLY the majority of all league of legends players, so why should someone have to commit to learning the game in a competitive way for rewards, especially if they never plan on playing ranked?

Around999People3 votes

So, you're saying that knowing the game better and being able to play more champions is not fun? Winning in more ways isn't fun?

Namid S1 votes

I'm not saying that at all and I apologize for getting to your comment so late, but what I am saying is that the system should be designed to reward you for your strengths as well as rewarding you for overcoming your weaknesses. Playing the game in more ways than one is perfectly fine but majority of players don't enjoy all roles, and they already KNOW how they like to play so why should they be punished for not wanting to play in ways they already know they don't enjoy?

What is so bad about rewarding someone for earning 5 S's on a champion, or something similar, even if you already got an S on that champion? Why does the system need to be about playing new champions well, when the same amount of time energy and grinding could go into playing the champions you LOVE well?

My system wouldn't hurt anyone and it wouldn't make chests easier to get, so what exactly is your problem with it?

z63XnLCMwX1 votes

Tl;dr I'm a millennial and I feel entitled to free chest.

Namid S1 votes

Where in this entire thread do I say that? Let me know :) just go ahead and quote me.

R181 votes

IMO she currently waayyyyyy too easy to get hextech chests. You can literally just hop into a normal play 1-2 games and get an S grade. I think that there should be more ways to earn keys though. I don't think I know anyone who doesn't have 10+ chests without the keys to open them.

R182 votes

Just noticed, op isn't even level 30

Ps. Y u so entitled, git gud

Namid S1 votes

I'm sorry you feel that way.

z63XnLCMwX1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Namid S,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LIUnElLz,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-09-13T21:22:37.480+0000)

League of legends is an incredibly fun game, and the honor system was an amazing addition in order for riot games to give back to the player base. But I need someone to help me understand why instead of a scaling rewards system for champions that people like to play, because Riot want's people to enjoy the game, we are forced to play more than one game of champions we have no interest in. I understand that Riot doesn't want rewards to be handouts necessarily, but is it really optimal to have people playing and trying at random champions that they wouldn't play otherwise?

In my proposal, we make the system a little easier for people to get rewards while still keeping the same amount of grind work for boxes, just making it more enjoyable and less of an unnecessary hassle. When you get a chest for a specific champion, and you also have mastery 5 or above on said champion, then you can get boxes for that champion as much as you want but each new box would add an additional S required until you reach a number predetermined by Riot. I think that this would prevent people from abusing the system while also making sure that the grindwork for earning chests remains intact. Let's face it, there is nothing fun about playing champs just to earn boxes, especially if you think that the champions aren't fun, because at the end of the day League of Legends is a GAME and game's should always be enjoyable. Unless it's Dark Soul's for all the masochists out there.

For anyone who says "just get someone to carry you" why would i want to subject another person to having to do well for the both of us when I don't have any clue as to playing a champion, when I could earn a box comfortably without having to practice a champion I'm only going to play for superficial reasons? If Riot games were to implement a system similar to this people wouldn't play any fewer games, They would just be happy knowing there's no pressure to learn new champions for no reason other than a one time S rank.

Thank you for reading to this point if you have, and I would appreciate any kind of criticism you have for me in the comments, although please refrain from useless comments such as "you should be glad they even have rewards" or "get good" unless you have substantial additions to those type of statements. Or if you just feel like trolling, I know that some people in the community just like to spew garbage so if that's how you get off then by all means. I am not a good League player and I will not pretend to be, but I would love it if the rewards system was geared towards playing with your favorite champions, instead of playing random champions that you do not like and have no interest in other than getting a chest and moving on. Unless there is a good reason that we potentially shouldn't enjoy the game when we are grinding for chests, which I would love to hear anyone give.

No one is going to stop playing league or play League less if the chests are less of a useless hassle to acquire, they will only enjoy getting them more because they are rewarded for great play with their FAVORITE champions. Thank you once again if you read to here,

I'm a millennial and I feel entitled to free chests

?

Namid S1 votes

http://prntscr.com/glalo4

I don't see it on my petty version, maybe you could check again?

BubblyRainbows1 votes

I am not trying to troll anyone, but why complain about chests if you only play a very small champion pool? The chances of getting a skin for one of the four champs you play (just an example number) is almost astronomically low. You want more chests, and I can understand that. But are you ever going to get anything you want to keep out of them if you only play a small number of champs? I have a pretty large champion pool, and half of the stuff I get from chests still just gets disenchanted or rerolled.

I like the current system because it has caused me to become reasonably decent at a LOT of different champions. Not great, mind you, but decent. Which also means I know how to play around a lot of champions a bit better than I did before I had ever played them.

richman211 votes

let me try to explain this to you in a way you may understand, since the other commenters dont seem to be able to get through to you in a meaningful way. i am another guy who has a couple champions i really enjoy, but i dont side with you in your suggestion. because, it goes a little bit like this, and you might get it this way since your a fellow working person.

say you have two employees at a job, both salaried at 700 dollars a week. they are employee 1 and employee 2. they have similiar to identical backgrounds, at least in the ways that matter. employee is your average worker, you cant really complain about his work quality or speed, but you also cant really coomend him on it either, its just average and hits the requirements, but never goes above them, or drops below them.in addition this employee leaves when its time to leave, and while working never has time for anything but his task and his task alone. however, employee 2 always goes above and beyond, doing not only what is required by his position, but also either much more of the unspecified task, or also cleans, does things for the other employees, always has time to help others, even at risk to his own tasks time table, and almost always stays over his scheduled shift in order to help those that need it, get his own assigned tasks completed, and make sure everything is cleaned behind him too. is it fair that both people are paid the same amount in salary? when it comes time for incentive type raises would it be fair to give both employee 1 and employee 2 a raise to 750 dollars a week or give employee 2 a raise to 800 dollars a week since he is always above and beyond in him work ethic, while employee 1 isnt bad, but isnt good either. i think that the answer is clear, and that the person doing more, putting forth more effort, and going beyond what is in his specific actions should definitely be given the raise, while the average average guy should be looked over, as this would be both positive and negative reinforcement in one move. you positively reinforce that mroe effort = more results, while dishing negative reinforcement to a light degree that those that do less, get less. that is the way of the world, and it is the way of f2p games that also have optional micro-transactions. you put more in, you get more rewards out. whether you want to put money or time in is your choice for those extras. or you can just get back what you put in, and if its less then its less. and fyi the grading system compares your stats to the performance levels of other players on the same champion, in the same role, in the same elo range. so ur not getting compared to the average of a challenger or pro level player to begin with, your getting compared to your fellow wood or plastic players, so dont go throwing accusations that riot is biased towards the higher elo players in this one specific area. i am just a measily silver player, and even i dont have a hard time collecting my chests off champions, simply by understanding the game at my level, and picking odd roles for different champions, even those im not exspecially good at, nor that i enjoy or will likely ever play again past the S rank.

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