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[Preseason] Itemization Feedback Megathread - 2016-10-18 PBE Build

Pyro·10/19/2016, 1:19:21 PM·84 votes·5,500 views

Worlds, soloq is back, replay system, sandbox mode, voice chat, Magma Chamber, and now it's the LoL's Christmas coming early - the Preseason.

http://i.imgur.com/4QnvX4f.jpg

Hi I'm Pyro and I do these threads every year. I just like commenting on item systems.

http://i.imgur.com/e76nC1C.jpg

#Lethality

Relatively simple fix to the biggest issue with assassin builds. From what I see, Serrated Dirk provides just about the same amount of arpen at target's level 7-8, and scales pretty well into the lategame. The only slightly nerfed item here is Youmuu's Ghostblade, as it will not grant you 20 arpen from the get-go.

Here's how Lethality works: 40% of your Lethality is converted into flat armor penetration right away. The other 60% scales with target's level. If you have 20 Lethality, you have 20 flat armor penetration against a level 18 target, but only 14 against a level 9 target.

item 3134 Serrated Dirk

  • +10 armor penetration >> +15 Lethality
  • Passive: After killing any unit, your next basic attack or single target spell deals +15 damage >> +20 Movement Speed out of combat

Pretty decent change, especially with the shift from laning power to roaming. This is one paradigm change I love seeing - if assassins are strong both in lane and in roaming, they're quickly snowballing the whole game out of control. I'm all for the rock paper scissors game of "maybe I'm not that strong in lane but I'll just go murder your team then".

http://i.imgur.com/BzkXWii.jpg Poacher's Dirk

  • Recipe: item 1036 Long Sword + 400 g (750 g total)
  • +20 AD, +20 ooc MS
  • Transforms into Serrated Dirk once you kill 3 jungle camps on the enemy side

THE TECHNOLOGY IS HERE. This is the first time we have two ways to achieve the same item, and I just love the concept. Much like the Cull, it's an item that starts its own minigame, a challenge: complete it and you'll get rewarded.

However, it favours a very specific category of junglers - the ones who can utilize armor penetration. It might be intended, but dedicated counterjunglers such as Nunu, Shyvana and Udyr cannot utilize this item very well.

I can't wait to see other challenge items like it. Here's some triggers that might work out as well:

  • Scuttle Crab kills/assists (Crab Shell?)
  • Tower takedowns in your vicinity (both enemy and allied)
  • Assists or kills taken with assistance of allied champion

Now, back onto the Lethality topic, with the upgrades.

item 3142 Youmuu's Ghostblade

  • Cost: 3200 g >> 3000 g
  • +20 armor penetration >> +20 Lethality, +20 Movement Speed out of combat
  • Active no longer grants Attack Speed

This is a straight out nerf, especially to AD Carries, who are probably no longer supposed to (ab)use it. In all other Dirk items, 20 Lethality is more than previously, but Youmuu rush is no longer as strong as it used to be.

One important note here is that the active, according to the preseason website, is supposed to block the first incoming enemy attack unless you attack first. This idea might have gotten scrapped, but it seems pretty damn interesting.

item 3147 Duskblade of Draktharr

  • +75 AD >> +65 AD
  • +10 armor penetration >> +20 Lethality
  • +5% movement speed >> +20 Movement Speed out of combat
  • Passive: Nightfall >> After being unseen for at least 1 second, your next basic attack deals 50 (+200% Lethality) bonus true damage on hit.
  • Passive: Gain true sight for 8 seconds after being spotted by an enemy ward (90 second cooldown)

Now this one got changed a LOT. It's probably not going to be useful on Jhin or MF any longer, but champions like Kha'Zix, Shaco and especially Vayne are going to love it.

A full 3 Dirk item assassin build is going to have 60 Lethality, which makes the passive deal 170 true damage on hit for every time you go invisible. That's a lot of damage on Kha'Zix and even more on Vayne, though if she goes full assassin, her AS and crit are going to be pretty nonexistent. I'd expect Vayne to build this without Ghostblade, maybe with the next new item.

http://i.imgur.com/wFyCLky.jpg Edge of Night (aka Sorcerer's Bane) (NEW ITEM)

  • Recipe: item 3134 Serrated Dirk + item 1037 Pickaxe + item 1033 Null-Magic Mantle + 675 g (3100 g total)
  • +60 AD, +35 MR
  • Passive: +20 Lethality, +20 Movement Speed out of combat
  • Active: Channel for 1.5s to gain a spellshield for 10 seconds, 30 second cooldown. (Can be channeled while moving, any damage will stop the channel.)

Pretty fair deal other than yet another "lol nope" to Karthus. Sure, an on-demand spellshield is an absurdly powerful tool, but it requires a careful preparation and can rarely be really used to block a specific selected spell.

It's a strong item but you have to take two changes into consideration: the removal of Aegis and the change to Malmortius. Malmortius no longer builds out of Serrated Dirk, making it a little bit less desirable for assassins in lane against mages. All in all Edge of Night is supposed to be a replacement for Malmortius.

item 3156 Maw of Malmortius

  • Recipe: item 3155 Hexdrinker + item 3133 Caulfield's Warhammer + 850 g (cost unchanged)
  • +55 AD >> +50 AD
  • +40 MR >> +45 MR
  • +10 armor penetration >> +10% Cooldown Reduction
  • Passive now also grants +20 AD on trigger.

Maw seems like an item more suited for fighters and divers now, but I can't help but fear all AD midlaners still rushing Hexdrinker and still converting it into Malmortius sooner or later. And a Zed or Talon with bot Edge of Night and Malmortius is going to be pretty much unkillable.

Seriously though, stacking Malmortius, Edge of Night and Mercurial Scimitar seems absolutely bonkers. I get that AD assassins are supposed to be a counter to mages, but with these items even tanks are going to have a lot of trouble pinning them down. I'd start considering making at least Edge of Night and QSS share the cooldown.

#Support items

item 3105 Aegis of the Legion

  • Recipe: item 1029 Cloth Armor + item 1033 Null-Magic Mantle + 350 g (1100 g total, down from 1500)
  • +30 Armor, +30 Magic Resist
  • Health removed
  • Aura removed

Aegis now becomes a stat stick that doesn't build into any bruiser/tank item. In the event toplane Shyvana and Jax become a thing again, I'd expect some tank toplaners to actually build it.

One good thing about resist bulk in lane is that it scales up your health regen. And you're already getting some health from Sightstone and Relic Shield.

item 3190 Locket of the Iron Solari

  • item 3105 Aegis of the Legion + item 1033 Null-Magic Mantle + 650 g (2200 g total, down from 2500)
  • +30 Armor, +60 Magic Resist
  • Active: 90 - 345 shield for 2 seconds >> 70 - 665 shield that decays over 2.5 seconds
  • Legion aura removed

Pretty neat and expected change. Shield now works best against AoE burst and can block insane amounts of damage. Stat-wise the item is modest (1580 g worth of stats), but doesn't overcap your CDR, which seems to be a common occurence if you're an enchanter. Overall a much specialized item now, which is nice.

item 3060 Banner of Command

  • Recipe: item 3105 Aegis of the Legion + item 3024 Glacial Shroud + 100 g (2200 g total)
  • +60 Armor, +30 Magic Resist, +400 Mana, +10% Cooldown Reduction
  • No longer grants Ability Power
  • Active Unchanged
  • Legion aura removed

A much better stat stick than Locket that might not only appease some tank supports, but also might pique interest of some tank toplaners (hello Sion).

item 3001 Abyssal Scepter

  • MR reduction removed
  • Now increases magic damage enemies take by 10%

Pretty straightforward and much welcome change. No longer stomps squishies as much as it used to, but it's going to remain pretty neat in the lategame.

item 3114 Forbidden Idol

  • Combine Cost 600 g >> 550 g (800 g total, down from 850)
  • Heal and Shield Power: 10% >> 8%

For a support building block Idol seemed a little bit expensive, so this is a good change.

item 3028 Chalice of Harmony

  • Combine Cost: 200 g >> 100 g (800 g total, down from 900)
  • Passive: Increases to your % Base Mana Regen stat now also increase your % Base Health Regen stat by the same amount.
  • This change also affects item 3222 and item 3174

Not only does it make Chalice a better defined item as 90% of the time it only granted mana regen), but also it helps the "mana regen overload" effect that stacking Enchanter items has on some supports. Going too big on mana regen? Here, have some free health regen.

item 3174 Athene's Unholy Grail

  • Combine Cost: 450 g >> 300 g (2100 g total, down from 2250)

item 3222 Mikael's Crucible

  • Combine Cost: 650 g >> 500 g (2100 g total, down from 2400)
  • Heal and Shield Power: 15% >> 20%
  • Active:
  • Cooldown: 180 s >> 120 s
  • No longer heals
  • No longer has a travel time
  • Grants 2 seconds of slow immunity
  • If you've cleansed a CC effect, grants 40% MS for 2 seconds

This change is intended to aid powerful initiators rather than targets being under threat of burst and I can see it working. I'm just not sure Enchanters will have enough miracles in their sleeve to save their carries from the onslaught of assassins.

item 3504 Ardent Censer

  • Combine Cost: 700 g >> 600 g (2300 g total, down from 2400)
  • Heal and Shield Power: 15% >> 10%
  • Passive: 25% attack speed and 25 magic damage on-hit >> 20% attack speed, 20 magic damage on-hit, heals for 20 on hit.

Seems legit and goes further into supporting AS-heavy champions. The on-hit heal seems particularly sweet on champions like Shyvana or Udyr, empowering objective takedowns supported by mass shields of Karma, Sona, or even support Lux.

http://i.imgur.com/GhAmsDj.jpg Redemption (NEW ITEM)

  • Recipe: item 3114 Forbidden Idol + item 3801 Crystalline Bracer + 650 g (2100 g total)
  • +400 health, +75% HP regen, +75% mana regen, +10% CDR
  • Passive; +10% Healing and Shielding Power
  • Active: Target an area within 5500 Range. After 2.5 seconds call down a beam of light to heal allies for 130 - 490 Health, burn enemies for 10% of their maximum health as true damage and deal 250 damage to minions. (120 second cooldown)
  • CAN BE USED WHILE DEAD though you can't use it if you just bought it while dead.

Now this is potentialy the best item design of the season, mostly because it's the first item in the history of LoL you can use while dead. The 2.5s delay is actually a lot, but you can use it as a zone deny tool during dragon/baron/tower fights. It also comboes really cool with Bard's ultimate.

I absolutely love the item and using it has been tons of fun. Side note: I'm surprised it isn't named "(Referral Person)'s Redemption". You could bring back names of some people who lost their items in the meantime, like Wriggle or Grez.

item 3401 Face of the Mountain

  • Active: Now shields your ally and yourself upon cast. Self-casting will now target the nearest most wounded ally, similar to Heal.

Pretty neat and needed, considering the removal of Aegis aura.

item 2303 Eye of the Equinox

  • HP Regen: 100% >> 200%

Not the change I was looking for. Talisman seems to be the more dedicated regen item, and the main problem with Equinox is that it's the only Eyestone without CDR. And Tanks, unlike Enchanters, are CDR-starved, especially now that Lockets loses its CDR. We'll talk more about it later.

http://i.imgur.com/aKwfU8i.jpg Knight's Vow**(NEW ITEM)**

  • Recipe: item 3801 Crystalline Bracer + item 3801 Crystalline Bracer + item 1029 Cloth Armor + 800 g (2400 g total)
  • +400 Health, +100% health regen, +20 armor
  • Active: Designate an ally as your partner. (90 second cooldown)
  • Passive: If your partner is nearby, gain +40 armor, and +15% movement speed while moving towards them. You heal for 12% of the damage they deal to enemy champions and redirect 12% of the damage they take to you. This effect is halved for ranged champions.

Well, this is THE Warden item. Perfect for the likes of Braum, really. Bond of Stone on crack is one thing, but the MS boost and channeled lifesteal is absolutely insane.

I feel like in most cases there won't be any choice here. As long as the ADC is the most important position in the teamcomp, Knight's Vow will continue to be a must-have on every support.

item 3050 Zeke's Harbinger

  • Combine Cost: 480 g >> 380 g (2250 g total, down from 2350)

The item will still feel awkward to buy on pretty much any champion. Sure, the effect is powerful, but those amp tomes are just one big meh.

It's the same issue as that old 3-component Aegis build: "The recipe is silly and feels awful because we don't want toplaners and junglers to buy it". And supports will apparently eat up anything you force them to suffer.

I'd seriously consider replacing the amp tomes with an Aether Wisp or something else entirely. And if midlaners start buying it, so be it.

item 2302 Eye of the Oasis

  • Combine Cost: 550 g >> 250 g (1900 g total, down from 2200)

That is a pretty low combine cost , and it would make the item worthwhile if it wasn't for the fact that a) Eye of the Watchers grants 10% CDR out of nowhere already b) nobody buys Coin for the laning phase, but rather endures it to get access to Talisman.

item 3069 Talisman of Ascension

  • Combine Cost: 450 g >> 350 g (2400 g total, down from 2500)

"I'll go Coin because Talisman is 100g cheaper than FotM" - said no one ever.

The Coin line is pretty weak at the moment overall. The passive just isn't nearly as impactful as Relic Shield or Spellthief's Edge. IMO it should affect your ally as well. I'd consider a mana regenerating effect - whenever your ally kills a minion, you and your ally get a small amount of Mana.

item 3110 Frozen Heart

  • Combine Cost: 800 g >> 700 g (2700 g total, down from 2800)

This is still a luxury item for tank supports, as it doesn't protect your allies from anything that's not continuous basic attacks. Both AD and AP burst will pretty much ignore it. The discount is pretty neat, but it's not an item to rush - it will always go as 2nd/3rd.

#CDR Overload on Enchanters, CDR Starvation on Supportanks

Cooldown reduction is a peculiar stat. It brings the most value the more you have, but once you go over the cap, it all goes to waste.

Enchanters suffer the most from it. Forbidden Idol seems like a perfect building block for them, and they'd gladly buy all 3 of this upgrades for the insane healing and shielding power (all together, +40%). This problem is especially evident when you rush Athene's Unholy Grail - you cap CDR easily, but then you waste stats on any further support items you buy, be that Zeke's or the Idol upgrades. Basically you finish Eye of the Watchers or FQC, get Ionians, and it's 20% CDR already. Athenes means you get 40% CDR (45 with mastery), but waste any Idol items from then on. And Athenes is a healing/shielding item after all.

A simple remedy to fix that would be an item or mastery that does something with excessive CDR. This would make endgame heavy-shielding builds feel less unrewarding. Example:

Suggested Solution: Sapphire Sightstone

  • Recipe: item 2049 Sightstone + item 1027 Sapphire Crystal + 350g (1500g total)
  • +200 health, +300 mana
  • Passive: Converts your excessive Cooldown Reduction into Ability Power (20 AP per 10% CDR).

Supportanks, on the other hand, will have immense CDR problems now that Locket has lost it. They get 10% CDR from FotM, but not from the Eye of the Equinox. If they want to leave Relic Shield and rush Knight's Vow or Locket, two insanely important protection items, they can end up with 0% CDR. Sure, FH and SV have plenty of CDR, but these two are kinda "selfish" tank items used by bruisers and juggernauts alike. As it is, supportanks have no Kindlegem items aside from FotM. Spirit Visage isn't really a support item. And supportanks would much rather go for mobis, tabi or mercs, rather than ionians.

The solution here is pretty simple: replace one of the Crystalline Bracers to a Kindlegem like you did with Warmog's. It doesn't have to be in Knight's Vow, it might as well be Righteous Glory. Giving it CDR could make it a neat Vanguard item for the likes of Leona. I don't mean that Knight's Vow is too weak - it seems too overloaded, in fact - but the lack of CDR is going to force some awkward moves like having to go for CDR runes.

Overall the issues with itemization are as follows:

  • Stacking three AD+MR items (Edge of Night, Maw of Malmortius, Mercurial Scimitar) might make the AD vs AP matchup impossibly overwhelming
  • Enchanter supports will continue overcapping CDR
  • Tank supports, on the contrary, might be starved on CDR
  • Ancient Coin line is still garbage
  • Rylai's nerf when?

95 Comments

Malicious Metal10/19/2016, 1:21:17 PM27 votes

Gret post, we need more PBE testers like you.

I am guilty of just testing passive changes to Morde but I actually play tested three of the assassins so far, though I suck at squishies XD

Zerana10/19/2016, 8:18:17 PM5 votes

Extra Cool down reduction after the 40%-45% should start rolling over into your item cooldowns capping at 50% (for obvious reasons). Getting item active cooldowns halved seems a neat reward for building pure enchanter builds and may even make a new class of champion, we already have the items in place for such things and adding a few more with various scalings could produce some pretty neat caster builds. It will never happen, though, but here's hoping.

Angry Monster10/19/2016, 3:32:07 PM4 votes

Might be the worse season yet to be a tank main. Cant wait for full Lethality build with a last whisper to delete what ever they want. Then riot saying we did not see that happening.

I am not sure if Riot is hiring new people or the old people are running out of ideas, either way this is going to be another rough season of balance.

Fawkes0410/19/2016, 3:22:54 PM3 votes

To start off, I don't own a PBE account, so everything I'm talking about is just theory and may or may not turn out to be totally different in game. I just wanna give my thoughts on some of the new items. overall, I really like the new items and the reworks, there are only a few concerns I have:

  1. As you already mentioned, CDR for tanky supports. New Locket does not give any CDR anymore. Equinox does not give any CDR either. As you said, rushing Locket and Knight's Vow leaves them with 0 CDR but I think, most tanky supports might just forget about Locket and get Banner instead, since they get CDR, MR and Armor from it. So at this point, the onyl HP-Source is Relic/Targons. Therefore, rushing Vow next seems like a suicide-way to me. You will get TRUE damage redirected from you ADC (most times), and have almost no HP. So before you can even think about getting Vow, you first need to finish FotM/Equinox AT LEAST or alternatively get another HP Item, even though Vow gives some HP. Also you kinda have to get Redemption as a support, even though the passive does not benefit most tanky supports.

  2. Now, that SotA is gone, Bond of Stone is the only possible option for tanky supports most times. For example, Braum has only one spell - his ultimate - that would grant him a shield from the new Keystone. Blitz will get a shield, but he uses both CCs in one combo. Similar problem for some tank junglers w/o much hard CC, for example Mundo, he has NO way to get the shield so he HAS to take Grasp, even though it's useless while jungling. Same for Olaf (except he could maybe take fervor) ot Trundle.

  3. Redemption seems just kinda overtuned to me. It's a mini-version of Soraka's ultimate in teamfights, but also a mini-version of Karthus' ultimate at the same time - and it's 10% max HP TRUE damage also. Imagine a siege situation, Malphite engages right after the support started channeling Redemption (I guess it will have a indicator where it lands, right?). Now the enemy team has about 1 second to get out of the AoE. Depending on the Size of the Redemption-AoE, the enemy team hast to decide between suffering damage from Redemption and fight back, loosing a significant amount of HP from Redemption only, or get out of the AoE as fast as possible and suffering free damage from the enemy team attacking them. If they decide to stay in the Area, Malphite's team also gets healed after a second. So whichever team has a Redemption on at least one champion first wins every fight until the other team gets one too.

  4. Control ward. I like the idea to disable wards but this might make barons and dragons unable to be contested. Imagine you placed a ward in baron pit. Now the enemy team wants to rush it, so they bring a control ward. they place it in the pit, so you cannot see wehter they are killing it at the moment or not, you do not even know for sure wehter they are THERE unless you warded every possible other way in/out of the pit. Now consider a situation, where you are not able to openly contest it because you would just straight up lose a fight at the very moment. So you might want your jungler to steal it but wait - there is a control ward in the pit. They do not even bother to destroy your wards since they are useless, you have no idea how much HP the baron has as long as the control ward remains there. So no more Lee Sin/Nidalee jumping other the wall from between baron and red buff, no more Rek'Sai tunneling in etc, since they don't see the HP of the baron, therefor cannot estimate the right time for a steal because every ward they place just gets straight up disabled by the control ward.

Spoofghoul10/19/2016, 5:20:36 PM3 votes

I wonder if knights edge can be a good defense item on a carry itself

then place the active on a tank like Sion with item 3068 item 3075 and enjoy continuous healing as he burns everything around as well as healing whenever he is attacked and damages enemies and since sion does quite a bit of damage to pretty much everyone around him with his aoe.

Should work similar on champs like nautilus or other very tanky aoe focused champions

The idea is that one takes a portion of the damage, which you might think you don't want on a carry, but it makes your frontline more beefy so there is that.

But also it is a tank, and tanks take a lot less damage due to how they build so your healing from their damage is probably bigger than the damage you absorb for them, and you gain a nice hunk of health movespeed and resists

Just some brainstorming but maybe this is actually good who knows i don't have pbe so can't test it :(

Stars Shaper10/19/2016, 1:25:57 PM3 votes

As a mostly mage player I'm a lot scared of the current changes. I hope that Rylai's changes and it's compensation for them will come in preseason too because this looks really dark for my mains (Aurelion Sol and Xerath) ç_ç

Khell DarkWolf10/19/2016, 1:27:50 PM3 votes

The chalice changes are actually a nerf.

There isn't enough mana regen in items to really make great use of the new passive.

Your trading an item designated for mana regen on live servers that can be used early, for an item from PBE that only gives you a smidgen of it in addition to the fact that the passive is hard capped by the amount of how quickly you can scale by BUY other mana regen items which is only on 6 items.

Last I check supports, don't have the gold to be splurging on getting lots of items early on. They need to be able to buy stuff cheaply and have the items work the moment they get it from the get go.

I'm not saying scaling in items are bad, but for a cheap item like chalice to place this scaling passive on isn't the right way to do it.

Did I mention the passive only works one way? Mana regen stats give you health regen, but health regen DOESN'T give you mana regen as compensation.

It should be put on another new item concept or include both the live passive and this one together as one.

This change is just a shiny bait gimmick, and guys don't concede to it please.

WinTheWarOnPants10/19/2016, 8:14:53 PM3 votes

Everyone: "Rito pls stop with all the AD MR items! there are 2(3 if you include witz) amazing AD MR items with strong utility that you get access to without even finishing the item. compare that to only one armor AP item that you have to finish before it's worth AND the massive amount of armor pen = AP gets short end of the stick"

Rito:"what's that? you want more MR AD items? and you want more armor pen? ok!"

Everyone:"....."

Rito:"welcome to season 6 2.Ohhhhh i'm sorry I mean season 7... :^)"

Also am i the only one that thinks this http://imgur.com/GhAmsDj is gonna be complete BS right from the start.... really? an item that gives you a ~~GLOBAL AOE ~~(nvm not glabal, but i think the 10% max hp true dmg more that makes up for the loss of BS)dmg and heal.... oh and also works while you're dead.... someone is gonna need to explain to me how this is not an absolutely horrible idea...

Skias10/19/2016, 6:31:50 PM2 votes

I was hoping to see armor on righteous glory or a better tank catalyst item for Taric. Oh well.

FantasySniper10/19/2016, 11:55:33 PM2 votes

Wriggle's Redemption!

CrazedPorcupine10/20/2016, 5:54:36 AM2 votes

I'm super excited for Soraka in season 7

3.3k HP, 156 Armor, 137 MR, around 960% base HP regen, 375% mana regen, 45% CDR (only overcapping by 10%), and 23% MS towards allies at full hp, and 63% MS towards allies below 40%, 55% increased healing, and regain 7.2% of the damage your ally does as HP.

I'd say that's the pickings for a broken ass Soraka. Tanky, hard to kill, and insane sustain.

Elikain10/20/2016, 9:36:41 AM2 votes

Well, i like the idea of doing something with over the cap CDR. I mean, i don't want for CDR for all support items to become 10% so that it allows you to get more items stacked on top of each other. Supports need to make a choice, not go on shopping sprees. And all choices should feel good and rewarded with proper stats.

Saianna10/20/2016, 11:51:33 AM2 votes

1 thing I noticed which I do not like:

Almost every AD-related item gives MS out of combat.

And what about others? Naaaah, mages don't need to move fast 350 with T10 Boots will do. And what about Skillshoots? Who cares. All that's important is for AD champions to walk with 600 speed all fucking day. (Just to clarify: I have seen thousands of kills from sudden skillshots while target is out of combat. If skillshot cannot connect, then kill won't happen)

Second thing I kinda dislike:

ADC rework = ADCs get new, grossly power creeped toys to play with Assassin rework = assassins / supports get new toys, but kinda toned down, so all is fine Mage rework = destroy half of mage items, second half change into support items and.. that's all..

Knight Devout10/19/2016, 1:33:07 PM2 votes

CDR Starvation on Support tanks.

Health starvation on support tanks.

Knight's Vow is cool.

Either they add something to supports or I'm switching support role for either top or mid. I should face revamped assassins without health on locket? Sure I can go Knight's Vow now but...Hell naw.

Blue Moon Wolf10/19/2016, 3:42:06 PM2 votes

Suggested Solution: Sapphire Sightstone Passive: Converts your excessive Cooldown Reduction into Ability Power (20 AP per 10% CDR).

See, that is a passive I can get behind. Creates something that is really beneficial to Squishy AP supports. Also I 100% agree with the coin line. That price reduction is not going to do a thing to make it more desirable. One of the big things I believe it needs a unique bonus that is in both fully upgraded versions like the other options. item 3092 item 2301 -> AP item 3401 item 2303 -> health/healing item 3069 item 2302 -> ....? (has regen, but those are available to the others as well)

They have a nice thing going with item 3069 having armor, but item 2302 needs to have that armor as well. I think what could be done is have poin runner (or at least a reduced version of it) be added to item 3096 along with a little bit of armor (say 25-30). then remove item 2053 from item 3069 (replaces it with another low armor item), then have it set up so item 2302 upgrades the point runner passive while item 3069 has more armor and has it's active. that way it becomes the definitive armor and ms item line. From there, the CDR can be removed from item 2302 and item 3069 to make everything like so:

item 3092 item 2301 -> AP/CDR item 3401 item 2303 -> Health/Healing item 3069 item 2302 -> Armor/MS

Stevev4510/19/2016, 4:02:50 PM1 votes

{quoted} item 3001 Abyssal Scepter

  • MR reduction removed
  • Now increases magic damage enemies take by 10%

"Pretty straightforward and much welcome change. No longer stomps squishies as much as it used to, but it's going to remain pretty neat in the lategame."

Seems like it significantly nerfs mages and assassins ability to kill targets they want to kill, and insignificantly buffs their damage against targets they still can't kill. This change looks like it moves the item to never buy status, but we'll see.

InTheory10/19/2016, 5:08:43 PM1 votes

[deleted]

aqours fanboy10/19/2016, 8:30:43 PM1 votes

Will AP Assassins get looked at like AD Assassins did with the addition of lethality?

The Yetii Rider10/19/2016, 11:03:19 PM1 votes

Well, okay so tank supports have Banner of Command for CDR. With how popular Zz'rot has been on certain supports I don't see a real issue with tanks dipping in to buy it, especially with how cheap the combine cost is and how good Glacial Shroud is in general.

So, Face of the Mountain, Banner of Command, Frozen Heart will get you to 40%. Thing is, you don't need 40% on tank supports like you do on enchanters, because tank supports generally want to initiate and then the fight ends quickly one way or another.

Aaravos10/19/2016, 4:10:48 PM1 votes

Can we stack together lethality from these items? All 3 are named UNIQUE passive, and having 60+ lethality will reduce a squishy's armor to 0 what is stupid. You can also get some from runes.