Let's Talk about Zeke's Convergence

Parceval·7/27/2017, 11:38:56 PM·18 votes·9,788 views

I like the fantasy of the item. I like that it provides unique support elements to the game. But... there's something I DON'T understand.

How, exactly, does the "50% bonus magic damage" work. Like, if I'm Leona and Miss Fortune ults after my ult, does her ult suddenly ALSO do 50% more damage? Or is it only basic attacks, and if so, do ALL of their attacks burn for 50% bonus magic damage, or just the FIRST attack?

tl:dr -- I don't understand the ally bonus to damage, ELI5.

14 Comments

zepdrix7/28/2017, 1:08:25 AM9 votes

I take "attacks" to mean auto attacks or anything that counts as an auto attack (think renekton W, gankplank Q, ... ).

If they had intended for the bonus to apply to any ability they likely would have used the wording "damaging ability" instead of "attacks".

So no, I don't believe MF ultimate would apply the bonus magic damage.

Another thing to consider: The burn is probably applied in the same way other burn effects are: If you reapply the burn before the previous burn finishes, then it simply refreshes the burn (it doesn't stack on top of the other one).

Example: Let's say MF auto deals 100 damage. The burn buff will deal 50 additional magic damage over the next 2 seconds. That's 25 damage per second.

If you have enough attack speed to attack them once every second, then only half of that first burn damage will have been dealt and the burn will be reapplied.

So in this example, MF auto attacks, then one second later autos again, dealing a total of 100 + 100 + 25 + 50.

I hope that's not too much unnecessary detail. Was just hoping it might help clarify :)

Sandomar2/12/2018, 10:27:35 PM4 votes

ONLY "DEFAULT" ATTACKS BY CONDUIT-ALLY APPLY ZEKE'S BONUS DAMAGE

This includes any "attacks" that are considered the same as that champ's default CLICK->AUTO-ATTACK method of dealing damage, or those which apply 'On-Hit' effects (e.g. Ezreal's Q): Basic Attack http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Basic_attack

MF ultimate? No. NO Ability (Q-W-E-R) - IF it does not also count as a default or On-Hit effect proc'ing attack - (per LoL description above) will apply the bonus magic damage.

NOTE: Bonuses to Damage applied by any 'basic / auto-attacks' On-Hit, such as CRIT items or champ passive boosts, DO apply!

The basic LoL description IS a bit confusing on several points. Here's what I believe is happening.

KEY FACTS: Zeke's Convergence will Slow any opponent inside, once, AND Adds bonus AP/magic damage - in this way:

  1. Frost storm: Surrounds and moves with YOU, for 10 seconds, applying the applicable SLOW effect.

  2. Opponents who are within range upon casting, OR who ENTER the effect during that 10 seconds, will be slowed by 20% for 2 seconds. "You are surrounded with a Frost storm which slows enemies within it by 20%..."

    *So...IF you cast your Ult while any Opponent is INSIDE of Zeke's range,

    • they get slowed by 20% for 2 sec.

    OR IF you cast your Ult while any Opponent is OUTSIDE of Zeke's range, but during the 10-second duration any opponent, for any reason (you move, they move) they ENTER the effect for the first time,

    • they get slowed by 20% for 2 sec.
  3. Bonus Damage(s) Activation: This is described as ONLY getting proc'd IF your bound Conduit-Ally is WITHIN (Zeke's) RANGE at the moment you cast your own Ultimate. HOWEVER, various discussions of this item online imply that your Conduit-Ally may actually have up to around 3 seconds to move/get into range. The range is NOT very large, but does show up as a graphic on screen.

    "Casting your ultimate near your Conduit grant you both bonus effects for 10 seconds."

    *So...IF you cast your Ult while your Conduit-Ally is OUTSIDE of Zeke's range, beginning the Frost Storm slow effect around yourself, even if your conduit-ally attacks an opponent inside the effect area (by ranged attacks or by opponent moving into the effect) there will be NO bonus damage if they were not 'in-range' near enough to trigger it.

RIOT: _ a) Simply ENLARGING the RANGE within which the Conduit-Ally must be to activate bonus might very well encourage more use of this item. b) Making the graphic overlay higher-contrast might help as well. c) IF it is true that the Ally has a grace-period delay during which to move into range and activate the Fire passive buff... SAY SO!_

  1. Opponents within the effect, who then get hit by an attack by your activated (was within range) Conduit-Ally, take additional

on-hit magic (AP) damage of 25% of whatever damage your Conduit-Ally attack provided. - Plus another 12.5% after 1 second - Plus another 12.5% after another 1 second (TOTAL bonus damage, as magic damage, is 50% of whatever damage your Conduit-Ally produced.) "...your Conduit's basic attacks burn their target with Fire dealing 50% bonus magic damage over 2 seconds..."

NOTE: This is magic damage, but it is based on WHATEVER damage your ally produces from their default attack, 

regardless of whether that attack does AD, AP, or True damage, PRIOR to modifiers like Armor/MR. Damage modifiers (such as CRIT bonuses) DO apply to the 50% calculation! Damage reducers of the initial attack (such as Exhaust) ALSO affect the calculation... :/ e.g. IF first auto-attack/basic hit on an opponent who was slowed does 200 AD damage - An instant extra 50 AP damage is applied - Another 25 AP damage after 1 second - Another 25 AP damage after 1 more second
- Damage restances (MR) DO affect the actual magic damage applied

  1. There is a stated 45-second cooldown. That means, this extra bonus AP/magic damage does NOT 'stack' multiple times. So...this whole 'bonus 50% damage over 2 seconds' feature apparently is applied only once, per opponent, per activation of Zeke's (i.e. per use of your Ult, after 45 seconds). "(45 second cooldown)."

  2. Frostfire Covenant: Any opponent slowed by your frost effect AND HIT by your ACTIVATED Conduit-Ally for the bonus

damage, immediately applies 40% slow AND extends that effect to 3 seconds (instead of 2 seconds) AND applies another 40

AP/magic damage for each of the next 3 seconds. "If an enemy is both struck by Frost AND Fire, your Frost storm ignites and becomes Frostfire. A Frostfire storm, deals 40 magic damage per second and slows by 40% instead for 3 seconds."

Following the example from above: 
Opponent is in middle of a 2-second 20% slow in your effect field, gets hit by opponent which does 200 AD + 50 AP, gets slowed to total of 40% for an extended extra second, while taking 25 AP Fire and another 40 AP Frostfire, then another 25 AP Fire and another 40 AP Frostfire, then is freed from the slow but takes another final (3rd) round of 40 AP Frostfire. 
Total damage over 3 seconds from your Conduit Ally basic attack is 200 AD + 220 AP = 420 damage. 

Yes...that ONE auto-attack just did MORE AP/magic damage than it did AD. Thanks Zeke.
Yes...This item is ideal - or at least can be very effective - with engage-supports that are tanky (![Malphite](https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/16.11.1/img/champion/Malphite.png) Malphite supp?) or who pick up a tanky-boost along with their Ult (![Alistar](https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/16.11.1/img/champion/Alistar.png) Alistar...and here's lookin' at you, ![Swain](https://ddragon.leagueoflegends.com/cdn/16.11.1/img/champion/Swain.png) **New-Swain** whose new Ult will be double-dipping on the swirling chaos effects...).

++++++++++ Therefore, it is important for your ALLY to know that the moment they see you activate your Ult, and (if the timeout is ready) proc the Frost Storm, they should IMMEDIATELY: ** Auto-Attack EACH AND EVERY opponent ONE time ** ** THEN focus on whichever the usual target would be (squishy), using Ability attacks to finish them.** ++++++++++

Riot questions: A) IF an opponent and ally are both IN range of the Zeke's, so there is a 20% Slow started for 2 seconds, AND an activated Conduit-Ally, BUT that ally does not get in a Basic/Autoattack until, say, second #9 of the 10 seconds...long after the initial 2-seconds of 20% slow has expired... THEN how does the 40% slow "instead" for 3 seconds?

  • IS there an entirely separate new 3-seconds worth of 40% slow applied?
  • IS there instead a 40% slow that only lasts for 1-second? (3 total - 2 seconds at 20% = 1 more second at 40%, but not applied until the AA hits?

B) IF the above occurs, and only a fraction of the 3-seconds worth of Frostfire 40% slow is applied after having used up 2-seconds at only 20% earlier; does the bonus 40 AP/magic damage still hit for the next 3 seconds for the total 120 AP/magic damage?

C) IF the bonus Fire damage can be reapplied by additional AutoAttacks during that 10-second window; i.e. the 45-second cooldown is solely for another instance of Zeke's, but the 50% bonus Fire damage can happen again-and-again, THEN the description MUST change to clarify this.

Enquiring minds want to know...

Yonkobonko7/28/2017, 1:07:37 AM3 votes

Think of this like Kayn's passive in SA. It takes a portion of that damage and converts it into magical damage and adds it back to the original damage. Of course it's a DoT effect but it shouldn't be difficult to work out.

Let's say you do MF and she hits someone with a basic attack for 300. It would divide the damage in half (50%) and add that back on as a DoT so it would do 450 damage total before mitigations. This applies to all sorts of damage so MF ult would hurt a lot combined with crit and Deathfire's

RankOneUganda7/28/2017, 1:11:15 AM2 votes

the item is good. just that. locket is so op that you have to build it. also ardent censor. and as support at most you usually get 2-3 items by time game ends

BALDG1VEN BOOMER7/28/2017, 12:38:24 AM1 votes

"Unique: Casting your ultimate near your ally summons a local frost storm for 10 seconds. As the storm rages, nearby enemies are slowed by 20% and your ally's attacks burn their targets for 50% bonus magic damage over 2 seconds (45 second cooldown)."

Well not much people completely understand it including myself but taken from what's written this is just my abbreviation of what I_ think_ it does.

When you cast your ultimate your ally has a 10 second period to follow up for their bonus damage, given your scenario yes MF ult would apply the damage, since the effect lasts only two seconds this also I would assume works on basic attacks, and subsequent basic attacks.

Of course this is just my thinking unless a Rioter confirms this is how it works.

Catastrop7/28/2017, 1:32:06 AM1 votes

To use MF as a way to explain it, it's basically a magic damage Love Tap on all damage you do.