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Constructive discussion on how to improve Dynamic Que. (Fixing Que Times)

Asyde·6/2/2016, 2:12:36 AM·2 votes·780 views

So now that the hammer has come down and RIOT has announced they will not be bringing back SoloQue, and are openly admitting they are having troubles solving the problems that persist with Dynamic que, I think we should re-direct our discussion towards helping RIOT come up with solutions to fix Dynamic Que. The system isn’t going away, so let’s put our heads together and start offering real ideas and solutions to make this game great again.

NOTE: Please keep all comments focused towards ideas RIOT can use for making Dynamic Que work. Negativity is OK so long as you provide ideas or solutions rather than just complaining.

That being said, let me start things off with one idea I had.

Role Selection & Que Times: Something I found extremely informative was that in the round table video, one of the lead designers Socrates used a “jar” analogy for how role selection effects que times. He basically said if you fill up 5 jars (roles) with marbles at different rates, and each time you have 1 marble in all 5 jars you take one out of each jar (matchmaking), what would happen? Eventually a jar would overflow (causing long que times), and thereby suggesting that other buckets that filled slowly would never have enough (fast/instant que times)

It appears their original theory for solving this was allowing people to choose two positions so that “it would even out the jars”. At first this seems like a good idea, but when there is a required position that is not very attractive in the first place (support), then a large portion of the people are double filling all the other positions while support (jar) remains relatively the same (percentage wise).

If you combine this with the fact that pre-made groups pull from the same jars, then you are starving the hard to fill jars even further. Creating a HUGE bottleneck.

It’s clear to me now that the reason SoloQue/Pick Order system didn’t have this problem with que times was due to the fact everyone was considered “fill”; you had no choice. So using the jar analogy, “all the jars would fill evenly, all the time”. I think RIOT understands this and that's why they are offering to potentially re-implement this feature as a backup solution in Diamond + games.

But remember this comes at a steep cost - frequently not getting your desired role. Which is a core problem RIOT is trying to solve with Dynamic Que.

So instead of reverting back to that system, let’s identify the real issue here: There is a role (jar) that is consistently, and notoriously un-attractive to a large majority of the playerbase – Support.

**RIOT - You need to fill that jar. **

No, YOU DO NOT need to force others into taking a position if they don’t want to (auto fill or pick order, ugh)

You need to make that position ATTRACTIVE. You need to change or offer something to support class that drastically widens the player base. That alone will do more for your que times than any algorithmic change or fine-tuning ever could. This will effectively keep all the jars more equally full, AND STILL allow people to have control over the roles they get; Because more players will actually want to play support.

**Using one last analogy: **If you are baking a cake, and you have plenty of sugar, butter, flour, baking powder and milk, but are short on eggs... You wouldn’t double everything else to compensate. You would go to the store and buy more eggs.

So here is a question for the boards: How can RIOT make the support position more attractive? What else do you think they can do to speed up que times (without sacrificing role selection)

That's it for now, I'll be writing some other posts soon tailored towards specific issues Dynamic Que is facing and possible ways to address it.

Thank you for listening.

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

17 Comments

KillerKell6/2/2016, 2:47:42 AM2 votes

First off, I love the Idea of getting one of two Roles I prefer.

Being able to focus on Two Roles instead of needing to be a Swiss Army Knife leads to improved play... better to be a specialist (basic economics).

But we need to, for the sake of Match Making Time, have a 5 Role Selection that we list 1 (High Priority) to 5.

So I might be 1. Top 2. Jungle 3. Support 4. ADC 5. Mid.

Once I select my Tiers, I now need a 2nd Selection... Priority.

What that means is how long am I willing to wait for MY specific Role? Let's again say a 1-5 Scale. 1 means "I'll wait forever, I DEMAND Top." 2 would mean "After X long minutes, open up Option 2". And on and on until all 5 are unlocked, at a pace you decided, so you can absolutely get in a game.

At least this way, if I'm waiting an hour for a Queue it's because I CHOOSE to so I can get my specific Role. And if I just want in a Game I can '5' the Priority at each Role and be in a game almost instantly.

So it would be a two-step Process in which the PLAYER decides what he's giving up... Wait Time or Role Preference.

There are 3 Factors here... Role Preference, Wait Time and Quality Match. We can't have it all, instantly. Trade offs are required. But right now, we have no choice in those trade offs. My idea at least gives us the choice as players to choose if I'm giving up Role Preference in favor of Faster Queue... or giving up Short Queue for Long Queue in order to secure my Role.

The Whamboozler6/2/2016, 2:15:51 AM1 votes

How about this...? Include a league-supported Voice chat.

If EVERYONE is now speaking, it diminishes the advantage groups have over solo players due to superior communication... AND it puts solo players in the loop on what the premade they're stuck with is planning/doing at least.

Oleandervine6/2/2016, 2:35:49 AM1 votes

Not to nitpick, but it's "queue." Otherwise, great write up, and hope more people read it. As for making support more attractive, perhaps something simple like an increased First Win of the Day bonus for people who queue as support, or maybe a once a day bonus for playing as support, independent of the First Win, something along these lines would appeal to player greed and pull more people into the role. Outside of that, it will take a lot more expansive changes to make people want to consistently play it

Virgin Ray6/2/2016, 2:36:39 AM1 votes

Constructive criticism on how to improve dq. First thing- Delete it.

Silver Fluffenbu6/2/2016, 2:50:00 AM1 votes

You need to make that position ATTRACTIVE. You need to change or offer something to support class that drastically widens the player base

another income source in addition to minions and jungle creeps. and a rebalance on support focused items to reflect a higher source of income

KillerKell6/2/2016, 3:03:14 AM1 votes

One thing to point out.

Most Pre Made Groups that bring an ADC, likely bring their own Support.

It's tough on an ADC to not trust your Support or know how they play... and the Synergy between a Support and ADC is much more of an impact than say Jungle and ADC or any other combination, especially if using Good Communication.

So Pre Made Groups likely help by bringing more Supports to Queue... but then hurt by Priority going to finding first a Pre Made to place them against, then dropping those restrictions as time progressing finding a Match.

So they help lessen one issue, but in turn cause another.