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Vayne needs a tweak, not a rework. Here are my thoughts.

Vàýńé·7/29/2015, 8:05:57 AM·3 votes·3,310 views

So Riot, most of you have come across a champion by the name of Vayne, and without being cocky or ignorant, I'm going to tell you what all of the fuss is about and what I think should be done. If you guys are in the process of tweaking her, let us know, so we stop complaining about it.

ALL CALCULATIONS ARE WITH NO RUNES OR MASTERIES

  1. Lets look at Vayne's base stats level 1:
  • 498 Health
  • 5.4 Health Regen
  • 232 Mana
  • 7.0 Mana Regen
  • 550 Range
  • 53 Attack Damage
  • .658 Attack Speed
  • 19 Armor
  • 30 Magic Res.
  • 330 Movement Speed

Okay, so this is relatively normal for the Average ADC. She actually has less health and less armor than the average ADC (Corki, Lucian, Sivir, Jinx.) Although the slight health and armor decrease, she does have more range, most ADC's clock in at about 500-530 range.

So you must be thinking, how is she OP? Well, it's not her stats that are making people uninstall, it's her kit. I don't know if you guys have looked at it, but it's very strong.

  1. Lets take a look at her kit and overall damage:

--Passive: Night Hunter | Range: 2000

Vayne gains 30 movement speed when moving towards a nearby visible enemy champion.

--Q: Tumble ACTIVE: Vayne quickly rolls toward the cursor's location, causing her next basic attack within 6 seconds to deal bonus physical damage.

BONUS PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 30 / 35 / 40 / 45 / 50% AD

Tumble resets Vayne's auto-attack timer.

--W: Silver Bolts PASSIVE: Vayne's basic attacks and abilities mark her target with Silver Bolts for 3 seconds, stacking up to 3 times. The third stack consumes all Silver Bolts on the target to deal them true damage.

TRUE DAMAGE: 20 / 30 / 40 / 50 / 60 (+ 4 / 5 / 6 / 7 / 8% of target's maximum health)

The percent health component is capped at 200 against monsters, and attacking a new enemy cleanses the previous target of all Silver Bolts.

--E: Condemn ACTIVE: Vayne fires a heavy bolt at the target unit, dealing physical damage, knocking them back and applying Silver Bolts.

PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 45 / 80 / 115 / 150 / 185 (+ 50% bonus AD)

If the target is knocked into a wall, they takes the same damage again and are stunned for 1.5 seconds.

--R: Final Hour ACTIVE: Vayne temporarily gains bonus attack damage, increases Night Hunter's bonus movement speed to 90, and gains 1 second of stealth when using Tumble.

DURATION: 8 / 10 / 12

BONUS ATTACK DAMAGE: 30 / 50 / 70

So, that's a lot of words right? Let me break it down for you. The main thing that sticks out to me is her W, Silver Bolts.

Level 1 Base Stats + Rank 1 W - Every third auto you deal 20 True damage plus 4% of their maximum health ( 20 On Average ) for a total of 40 true damage and 93 Damage overall.

Level 18 Base Stats + Rank 5 W - Every third auto you deal 60 True damage plus 8% of their maximum health ( 240 On Average ) for a total of 300 true damage and around 409 Damage overall.

So once again you may ask, what's so broken? Its simple, it's her W. A 3000 health tank at level 18, she does 300 true damage with 3 shots, not to mention her massive crits along with BORK's stats. Their health bar is practically incinerated. It's like casting Darius's ult 3 times with 9 Autos and, as long as you didn’t uber feed, it’s very easy to get to this point, even when behind. So Riot, we're not complaining for no reason. She really is massively overpowered. The community really does have some good ideas so listen to them, but just try to work on her. I don’t mean completely rework her entire champion, just tweak her kit. Maybe turning her true damage to physical damage…. something along those lines. I would love to have a discussion over her and I have some ideas of my own (being a Vayne main) on how she can be tweaked without completely killing her (and ruining my ranked career) that are just simply too long to fit into a Boards Post. If you want some ideas (which I'm sure you have plenty already) add me: HKG Austin. Thank you guys for this wonderful game and keep up the good work!

Sincerely,

~Austin

16 Comments

Vàýńé7/29/2015, 8:07:02 AM1 votes

Feel free to leave your ideas here! Please make them respectful! Enjoy!

~Austin

67chrome7/29/2015, 10:01:46 AM1 votes

So once again you may ask, what's so broken?

Mostly I have to ask - why did you post all of Vayne's stats and skills in this?

Those are all on this very webstie. Link to her page or something, listing everything just seems really inefficient.

she does have more range, most ADC's clock in at about 500-530 range.

550 is the most common AA range for a ranged champion and what more ADC's have. Going off of an average here isn't that useful, as a few ADC's like Graves screw that up.

Also - ability range on ADC's is massive. Ezreal Corki were the go-to champs for seasons 1, 2, and 3 with item 3078 and mid-game caster focuses, being much closer to mages with solid auto-attacks over committed auto-attackers.

Despite the low AA range of Sivir Graves Lucian , they can all out-range Vayne and win initiative, getting the first hit off in many cases: with certain abilities and vs. a squishy target like Vayne, that's a substantial range advantage.

Its simple, it's her W. A 3000 health tank at level 18, she does 300 true damage with 3 shots, not to mention her massive crits along with BORK's stats. Their health bar is practically incinerated.

This argument has a few flaws.

First: Vayne's true-damage hits are akin to the poison status in Pokemon. Don't know what Poison does in Pokemon? It deals damage equal to 1/16th of your opponent's maximum HP as true damage every turn. This is in a game where you can double your damage output and then proceed to OHKO anything thrown at you. Poison is awful in that game.

Shaving off 10% of someone's HP in 3 hits has it's uses, but in most games killing someone in 30 hits is pretty unimpressive. LoL is one of those games where it's not impressive, most mages can turn a squishy into paste with 1 QWER combo, removing a player from the field in less than 2 seconds. Similar things can be said for many assassins and even a few fighters.

When you get to the tanky side, it's not like Nasus or Cho need 30 hits to kill an opponent either. Nasus only needs 2.

Vayne isn't the one doing the incinerating, if that's your issue with her - you might want to take a look at the rest of LoL's damage-dealers.

Second: Don't complain about items with average synergy on a champion.

All champions can get items, many champions work well with Kingblade. When Vayne gets stats from Kingblade, her rivals get stats from their items. Which might be Kingblade.

Also - average game only lasts ~33 minutes and sees ~11k gold per player, about 3 major 3k items, 1k in boots, and 1k in the bank when someone's Nexus goes down.

When Vayne has critical strike chance and Kingblade, half of an average game is already over: which limits her power through both of those things by 50%.

I mean - there are champions like Riven Annie that are terrors with 0 items and can bring the strength of their kits throughout closer to 100% of a game.

Third:

This notion of Q_Q tanks are screwed.

LoL is a game with strategic elements. For strategy to be solid or engaging, you want to exploit your enemy's weaknesses and play to your strengths: which often change depending on the match-up. You can't rely on the same tactic working over and over again, because muscling your way through your weaknesses and your opponent's strengths isn't stratagy, that's just being a derp.

And look at other mechanics in LoL:

Tenacity, Cleanse, and QSS don't effect pulls, grabs, flings, knockbacks, knockups, or slowing fields. 600 range can be negated by 600 mobility. All CC countermeasures are useless vs. created terrain. You can't dodge point-click skills. Point-click skills can't be cast on targets that are stealthed/in fog of war/in brush/untargetable item 3102 prevents suprise QWER bursts, your opponent will always see you coming. BV and Zilean Ulti hard-counter reset mechanics. All damage is 100% useless vs. invulnerability and stasis. Defense doesn't do anything vs. %Max HP True Damage.

Vayne's capacity to counter out-tanking strategies isn't synonymous with no counterplay and being broken.

Anyways - Vayne's true damage isn't broken, it's not the massive amount your making it out to be (or rather the solid amount it is is fairly low relative to other damage sources in the game), she's still item-reliant, and there are plenty of ways to deal with her besides building defense.

I'd have to say - she's a pretty balanced champion. Mostly her play-style and bonuses just get the subjective/emotional parts of people riled up, appearing like a solid PvE RPG hero to run with for the long haul, hogging the glory of kills her team helped her with and looking good end-game when early and mid are just as important. She seems deceptively stronger than she really is.

Vàýńé7/29/2015, 8:12:01 PM1 votes

Bump! ~ :3

Baseball3b7/30/2015, 9:56:05 PM1 votes

I think if they knocked down her AS/level slightly and buffed lane bullies up to par Vayne would be back to a decent place.

O Fallen Scholar7/30/2015, 10:06:32 PM1 votes

Wanna know my thoughts? item 3153 This fuking item gives too much raw power to Vayne, it's a fact (no other champ gets so much power from it than Vayne imo). Back when this item wasn't even introduced, Vayne was in "comp reliant pick" state. Now she is 100% pick no matter the comp. It's unhealthy and I don't think that was Riot's intention afterall.

Vayne was supposed to be "niche" pick in certain comps. As I am aware from Riots part.

What I would nerf is her attack speed scaling or tweak some of her base stats (since there are many champs who benefit from item 3153 therefore hard to balance ). Despite Caitlyn still zones her pretty hard and is good counter to Vayne. A good Draven player can also beat her.

NemeBro7/30/2015, 10:30:03 PM1 votes

My only real problem with Vayne is that her "bad early game" is something of a bad joke. Compared to most other champions who are often said to be "hypercarries", her early game is actually really strong, with a low cooldown escape and great self-peel.

Nasus has a bad early game. Jax has a bad early game. Kog'maw has a bad early game. So does Twitch. All late-game powerhouses.

Vayne? Vayne can be bullied by some ADCs, but she is easily able to farm, and the item she rushes (BotRK) ensures that she has the sustain to make up for her "weak early game", and Vayne is perfectly capable of getting kills and making plays early game. Nasus? Nasus isn't getting a kill off of you early game unless you play badly or the jungler ganks.