Twitch's Contaminate shouldn't be so similiar to Kalista's Rend.

LaytonApprentice·7/3/2015, 2:54:38 AM·79 votes·5,324 views

Twitch's Contaminate is like a super nerfed Kalista rend. Kalista's Rend slows, resets on kills, stacks infinitely and has no cap.

I think it would make more sense if Twitch's E has more of a DoT kind of poison effect. Upon activation it starts consuming stacks one by one dealing a little bit of damage and increasing the damage Twitch does to his target. Twitch can add more stacks to his target increasing the duration and the effect as each stack is consumed and his damage increases.

64 Comments

Only Play Darius7/3/2015, 5:47:25 AM38 votes

It isn't similar to rend.

It's an inferior version of rend.

Sxli7/3/2015, 2:55:59 AM20 votes

Twitch was first, so your title is backwards. But I agree Twitch`s E is kind of bad.

diamondlight7/3/2015, 8:45:52 PM5 votes

This post made me really curious, so I geeked out an exact comparison between Twitch and Kalista E:

Base Damage Kalista E: 20 / 30 / 40 / 50 / 60 (+ 60% AD) << It Scales Twitch E: 20 / 35 / 50 / 65 / 80

Extra "Stack" (Twitch Limited to 6, Kalista Limited to Number of Spears in 4 Second Window) Kalista: 10 / 14 / 19 / 25 / 32 (+ 20 / 22.5 / 25 / 27.5 / 30% AD) Twitch: 15 / 20 / 25 / 30 / 35 (+ 20% AP) (+ 25% bonus AD)

Twitch Only: Each Stack also does 12 / 18 / 24 / 30 / 36 (Max 72 / 108 / 144 / 180 / 216) TRUE DAMAGE over 6 Seconds, at Levels 1 / 5 / 9 / 13 / 17

Kalista Only: SLOW: 25 / 30 / 35 / 40 / 45%

Mana Cost Kalista: 40 MANA (100% mana returned if it Kills any target) Twitch: 50 / 60 / 70 / 80 / 90 MANA

Main Differences:

Kalista base damage scales with AD (full AD, not bonus AD)
Twitch has his slow on W, for 2 Stacks (same leveling of slow as Kalista E), this does 24-72 TRUE Damage over 6 seconds depending on level
Twitch Extra Stack damage scales with Bonus AD and AP (who builds AP on Twitch?) vs Kalista which scales with Full AD
Twitch can continue to add more Deadly Venom Stacks while E on Cooldown, Kalista can not unless she Rend-kills minion or champ
Kalista has 2s higher cooldown initially (14 vs 12 seconds), but both end at 8 seconds at max rank
Kalista can have instant cooldown + refunded mana
Twitch wants Slow (W) + E, it will cost him 2x-4x the Mana of Kalista E depending on E Rank, at Rank 1 W and Rank 3 E, it costs 120 Mana, but Kalista E costs 40 Mana

Damage Comparison 4 Stacks LEVEL 1 Champ Level 1 Rank 1 - E Doran Blade Standard Runes and Masteries (AD Marks, AS Quints), Ignoring Warlord Mastery 4 Auto Attacks

Twitch Base AD: 49 Bonus AD: 19 Total AD: 68

48 True Damage over 6 Seconds (plus potentially extra ticks of 12 damage for time it takes for 4 auto's) 224 Damage from AA 99 Damage from E Base and Stacks

Total: 323 Damage + 48 True Damage (over 6 seconds) (50 Mana)

Kalista Base AD: 53 Bonus AD: 19 Total AD: 72

288 Damage from AA 63 Damage from E Base 43 Damage from E Extra Stacks

Total: 394 Damage + 25 % Slow (40 Mana)

Now Level 6....

Damage Comparison 4 Stacks LEVEL 6 Champ Level 6 Rank 3 - E Doran Blade Bilgewater Cutlass Standard Runes and Masteries (AD Marks, AS Quints), Ignoring Warlord Mastery 4 Auto Attacks

Twitch Base AD: 61 Bonus AD: 47 Total AD: 108

72 True Damage over 6 Seconds (plus potentially extra ticks of 12 damage for time it takes for 4 auto's) 432 Damage from AA 197 Damage from E Base + E Stacks

Total: 629 Damage + 72 True Damage (over 6 seconds) (70 mana)

Kalista Base AD: 66 Bonus AD: 47 Total AD: 113

452 Damage from AA 108 Damage from E Base 141 Damage from E Extra Stacks

Total: 701 Damage + 35 % Slow (40 Mana)

Summary If Twitch uses W and E, it costs him 2x - 4x the Mana of Kalista, and Kalista can get a Mana + Cooldown Refund if she tags a minion that will die with Rend. Damage is quite similar, if not leaning towards Twitch a little maybe cause of True Damage.... unless Kalista can get crazy number of spears in you, but at equal stacks, Twitch and Kalista damage are about even.

Of course the full Kalista kit might be a different story, her W passive being proc'd by bind-buddy can really change total damage output a lot.

EDIT: Updated the E damage on Twitch, had confused with Kalista "additional spears", Twitch damages equally for all stacks + base damage.

Meep Man7/3/2015, 5:18:50 PM3 votes

Maybe buff Twitch poison and then make Contaminate CONTAMINATE units around "infected" units as well as reset the poison damage on already affected targets.

atomicwit7/3/2015, 8:14:05 PM2 votes

Twitch needs serious buffs imo but I don't mind his mechanics. He came before Kalista anyway.

Messaiga7/3/2015, 1:47:55 PM2 votes

I agree. Honestly, one of the things that keep me from seriously playing Twitch is that he's just in such a sad spot right now. His passive tickles, his Q has a 6 second delay if you take some damage (outrageous IMO), W doesn't feel so impactful, and his E is straight-up inferior to Kalista's E. His Ultimate is cool AF though. If they were ever to do a mini-rework for him, it'd be nice to overhaul his W and E while emphasizing his passive DOT more. I think his Q and his R are essential to what makes Twitch play how he does.

He's a cool character with a....... unique personality, but I see little value in playing him for that if the only time I can enjoy him is when I get lucky and don't get destroyed by the enemy bot lane (and before anyone says it, yes, I tried him jungle too. Pretty fun.).

AsReelAsItGets7/3/2015, 10:30:15 PM2 votes

Twitch NEEDS to be spiced up. They can not just leave him with the way he is right now.

THEY NEED TO REWORK, BUFF OR REDEFINE HIM.

diamondlight7/3/2015, 10:38:38 PM2 votes

Some other ideas...

Hitting E (Contaminate) also spreads Deadly Venom Stacks to nearby targets (like Brand E), it also makes sense with the word Contaminate, so thematically good.

Make W increase stacks applied as it's leveled up, instead of having always 2 stacks. At max rank, maybe it's 4 stacks, and maybe increases passive damage as it's leveled too.

Shosuko7/4/2015, 6:43:28 AM1 votes

I think that Twitch needs a kit that can support jungle, and definitely makes his poison actually mean something. Right now it's a true damage dot which for all purposes might as well not even do damage lol. I think moving that to a skill so it can have meaningful damage would be best, also the change to spray and pray I always wanted, make it a line nuke skill shot sorta like Irelia has for her ult, so that he can properly aim it into the shadows and between units to maximize on damage.

What I'd like to see Twitch have for a kit:

Passive - Sneeky Sneeky When out of combat for 5 seconds gains % movement speed. This gives him mobi boots as a passive, which has always been Twitch's favorite boots anyway.

Q - Ambush - After 1.5 seconds, or 6 seconds if taking damage, or INSTANTLY if not in enemy vision Twitch goes stealth and his passive activates. When he leaves stealth he gains attack speed.

W - Debilitating Poison - Passive - Twitch Auto attacks apply a stack of poison. Active - Twitch can activate the poison to slow his targets based on the number of stacks of poison they are suffering. Duration of slow increases with skill level, potency of slow increases with stacks, at 5 stacks should be like 99% slow, but at rank 1 slow could be only 0.75 sec.

I think this is an important change because the current poison cask is a skill that defies it's self. You want to use it early in a fight to get the +2 poison stacks so you can contaminate quicker, but you want the slow saved for when ppl are trying to get away, and at that point the poison stacks are meaningless. We need to bring back the old twitch skill here, it was much better.

E - Expunge - Active Twitch pulls on the poison from his targets dealing execute damage. This deals physical damage base +% of missing health. The missing health execute damage increases based on the number of stacks, at 5 stacks this should be a significant execute. This clears the poison stacks. If a unit is killed with this ability it heals twitch based on the amount of damage dealt.

I think this can let twitch jungle as he can lvl 2 expunge jungle mobs to get some health back. I also think it fights with his sneeky assassin / adc combo.

R - Spray and Pray When Twitch activates this skill his can no longer auto attack but instead fires a series of line nuke skill shots. His ammo amount is based on ult lvl, and the cd between shots is based on attack speed. These apply all on hit effects. This is sorta like Irelias ult in mechanics.

This is the change I've wanted on Twitch all along. Spray and Pray was never much spray, and always much pray since ppl could side step his attacks. With this change Twitch can fire his auto's between targets for maximum effect, and can also fire away into an area in which he doesn't have vision.

MTempty7/4/2015, 8:26:27 AM1 votes

Twitch's damage is among the most feared in the adc role. We saw Lcs games in s4 where a Twitch would lay waste to entire teams that are caught in a corridor solo. I don''t think you want to empower his late game. He struggles to stay alive but those few times he manages it, Its a nightmare for the enemy team.

Asdeft7/4/2015, 9:56:55 AM1 votes

Well you can kind of say the same thing with Jax Leap Strike vs Katarina Shunpo. Twitch's Contaminate just needs to deal much more damage as well as maybe give him some kind of way to root or stun people somewhere to help him with his weak kit. He seems to be struggling right now :/

A Miss Fortune7/3/2015, 2:10:41 PM1 votes

I don't think Twitch's E is that bad, It's not his core problem. The E allows him to burst people (the E also has retarded range) and does noticeably more damage as you puts stacks on his target. It scales well with AD and even has some AP scaling for something like Gunblade.

Twitch's main problem in my opinion, are his W and his passive.

His W gives a nice slow, but it doesn't do much for majority of the game since he doesn't level it up first. The only thing it really does is applies stacks of his passive. Sure this will definitely separate the good Twitch players from the god Twitch mains, but the ability itself does relatively nothing due to how poor the passive itself is. The W and Passive sync together but the passive itself is pretty bad.

Twitch's passive takes a really long time for it to scale and actually do damage, even then a lot of people like Janna can totally block every bit of the damage with her shield or people like Sion just won't feel a thing. The passive requires Twitch to also auto attack them about 4 - 6 times for the damage to even be worth noticing. Let's be honest, everyone has executed a fleeing enemy with Twitch's passive before. However I also have executed plenty of people with Zyra's passive. In the end, both the passives are lacking and others easily outclass them.

At max rank in the passive with max stacks for the whole duration, somebody may take up to 215 true damage. But this damage is over the time of 6 seconds, and also requires him to attack his target for 6 seconds. The passive simply does no damage. A lot of people have argued that the passive is actually what makes the champion good and scale well into late game, but it simply doesn't. Sure it's really nice to have against the enemy squishy carry with no Armor or Health, but the fact that it won't even leave a dent in their health is pretty pathetic and the entire passive while seemingly suppose to be good, just isn't. It scales really poorly and the damage may literally just heal them early game because minions do much more damage than it up until mid or late game. Actually I think one super minion auto attack does more than double the damage of Twitch's passive at max stacks for the whole duration.

Twitch in general is just so reliant on a passive that is very bad. The damage isn't even noticeable until late game. Twitch in my opinion is a watered down Vayne that doesn't really have any clear ways to outclass her ASIDE from him having much better teamfighting ability. To be honest I play Twitch just for his teamfighting abilities, his ultimate gives him the most auto attack range in the game and I've gotten instant quadra kills from playing him. However this strength won't make up for his kit.

tl;dr Twitch entire kit revolves around his passive which does relatively no damage until late-late game. Sort of.

MLDzXnRRR7/4/2015, 3:19:05 PM1 votes

They want Kalista to be strong, not Twitch...

xl Kirito lx7/3/2015, 5:19:09 PM1 votes

Devil advocate here, but doesn't twitch apply stacks much more efficiently than Kalista does?

hopadopagopalas7/3/2015, 5:52:43 PM1 votes

also how come he is the only champ who has stealth that gets delayed by being hit? if his works like that shouldn't all the others as well? how come shaco and wu can dissappear when ever they want, but if twitch does it its op and needs to be nerfed?

FistOfSharkiesha7/4/2015, 2:17:19 AM1 votes

Riot doesn't want Twitch breaking a 50% winrate. But yes total support. Twitch is the perfect candidate for buffs. Vayne dominates the role of Assassin ADC leaving no reason for Twitch to be played.

Ulquiorra9957/4/2015, 5:34:44 AM1 votes

You'd think that, with Kalista having no cap, resetting CD, lower manacost and slow Twitch would at least deal more damage base and per stack... He does not. He has 80 base, compared to Kali's 60 + 60% bonus AD, and 35 + 25% per stack compared to 32 + 30%.