Boards›Gameplay

Repurposing Juggernaut enchantment for jungling juggernauts

Juggernacht·3/5/2018, 12:36:00 AM·18 votes·8,899 views

What: Yesterday while looking at the old jungle items and how they changed smite, I stumbled upon a removed jungle enchantment by the name of Juggernaut. It was originally designed as a tank jungle item and was replaced by item 1401 for a trio of reasons, tenacity doesn't help tanks that much, it didn't help with tank's clear speed issues, and it didn't scale well enough for tanks. Notice the use of tanks in all three of these reasons. I'm here to argue the point that while this item was sub-par for tanks, to my mind it would actually seem like a really good jungle item for the likes of Trundle , Udyr , Shyvana , and most or all the other juggernauts that are played in the jungle, as well as most champions that build item 3078 . At the moment there are 4 jungle items, and while each of these juggernauts has items that benefit them in specific instances (item 1401 when behind and going tanky, item 1416 to shred enemies, and item 1400 for more pure damage) I would argue that a slightly modified juggernaut could provide an alternate and interesting build path for them. Before I explain why let me first explain what juggernauts look for in an item. Feel free to skip this next paragraph if you already understand juggernaut items and why they buy them.

Why: I play a lot of juggernauts, which is why I was so excited about this, and when i play juggernauts I tend to play them with a split push playstyle, champions like Yorick , Nasus , Trundle , etc. One of the most important items for tower damage in these builds is item 3078 , as most juggernauts have an empowered auto or some other easy way to proc it. Because item 3078's damage is based off base AD, it's very strong on juggernaut's naturally higher base stats, and item 3053 is a common buy to amplify that already high base AD to impressive heights. Another common juggernaut stat is tenacity. This makes sense given that a juggernaut's greatest weakness is getting kited, especially by CC, wouldn't you want something that mitigates your greatest weakness to go along with an amplification of your greatest strength? Another very juggernaut thing to do is build tank after getting 1-2 core damage items, this is to allow you to get close to your enemy by mitigating the massive amounts of damage being thrown around in the mid/late game by carries. This also means that a juggernaut's strongest point in the game is generally a strong mid game powerspike, after you've finished your core damage items, but before the damage really starts to increase to ridiculous levels. Now with the question of what juggernauts look for, let's move on to the proposed changes to the Juggernaut enchantment.

How: My current thought on enchantment: Juggernaut is this: Originally it was a 1400 cost item, up the cost slightly to bring it in line with other jungle enchantments, make it build out of either a item 3052 or item 1036 and item 1028. Cut the CDR if necessary, and instead give it Tenacity, % base AD, and flat health. This would provide exactly the kinds of stats that juggernauts need. Not only would it allow current jungle juggernauts to have an easier time with a trinity build path because you wouldn't need to build a Sterak's but it might allow other juggernauts that don't benefit as much from the current jungle enchantments to find a new home in the jungle, think Darius, Nasus, Urgot, Yorick, etc. With Riot thinking about making sure champions are viable in at least two lanes, this might help serve that purpose. Finally, it doesn't scale like item 1401 , but that's not what a Juggernaut looks for, instead they look for a midgame power spike so they can apply pressure, take towers, and 1v1, which this item would be perfect for.

Final notes: If you liked my thoughts on Juggernaut items be sure to check out this guy's proposed juggernaut item, it's one of the things that inspired me to write this.

If you'd like to see more of these things about removed items and how they could be modified to solve problems or provide more diversity to the game in its current state, please tell me! I love doing these kinds of things, and I have a couple ideas for removed items that could be repurposed into really cool items, including AP jungle items, more juggernaut items, ADC items, support items, and more!

Lastly, if I'm mistaken about any of these things, especially jungle related stuff feel free to let me know, this is all theory crafting and I don't play much jungle.

TL;DR: Bring enchantment: Juggernaut back as a mini, just stats version of item 3053 to help juggernauts in the jungle.

23 Comments

Pokemonred2003/5/2018, 1:43:12 AM6 votes

I feel like this would be a perfect opportunity to bring back the original incarnation of Spirit of the Ancient Golem, which was basically Juggernaut enchant with less health but more Regen: SotAG stats. I would definitely enjoy seeing something like this come back; weather as a jungle enchant or something separate from the smite upgrades (but still upgrading from Hunter's Machete or Talisman). Hopefully Riot sees this and considers it for the future.

LyingOnLine3/5/2018, 3:19:01 AM2 votes

Triforce as a core item just doesn’t work with modern junglers.

Numbuh 2143/5/2018, 7:27:48 AM2 votes

I like the scaling aspect of Cinderhulk, so I'd hate for it to go away; but I do like this idea as its own enchantment. Maybe the name could be "Titan"?

PhDs Nuts3/5/2018, 8:02:24 AM1 votes

Don't forget Malphite. He's a juggernaut too xd

https://i.imgur.com/tCANypC.png[/img]

DragonShea3/5/2018, 10:16:11 AM1 votes

gud stufph

It would make Yorick viable and Trundle even better.

The Cane Master3/5/2018, 4:25:38 PM1 votes

Another common juggernaut stat is tenacity. This makes sense given that a juggernaut's greatest weakness is getting kited, especially by CC, wouldn't you want something that mitigates your greatest weakness to go along with an amplification of your greatest strength?

Nah, there has been a whole post about juggernauts' problems, and tenacity doesn't prevent juggernauts from getting kited and CC-ed like on a pinball machine. This is why an item like this one would solve most of such problems.

Abibyama3/5/2018, 5:23:58 PM1 votes

I legit forgot that item existed

The Yetii Rider3/5/2018, 6:03:24 PM1 votes

Juggernauts tend to have no mana / low mana costs. They're not healthy options for the jungle. Same reason Riot doesn't want Zed/Shen/Akali to jungle, and a large part of the reason Lee Sin, Shyvana, and Rengar have all been issues in the past.

Right now one of the biggest problems in the jungle is sustained clears. Having a whole slew of manaless junglers enter the jungle wouldn't help anyone.

Pokemonred2003/5/2018, 6:25:48 PM1 votes

I liked your idea quite a lot, and made a post of my own that takes the item and puts stats on it so that it might be easier to visualize (along with other old jungle items, but that's not the point.)

I linked your post at the beginning; was something like this sort of what you imagined?

ProfDrDeath3/5/2018, 9:49:49 PM1 votes

Sounds nice.

To note:

  • The base AD increase possibly needs to be a named unique with Sterak's Gage.
HalcyonDweller3/5/2018, 11:05:10 PM1 votes

As someone who doesn't remember what Enchantment Juggernaut did, I'm thoroughly confused. Can you please provide word for word text on what the item's effect is?

Also with the jungle items, their Icons all look alike, so putting in the symbol for them doesn't help show which one you're actually talking about. Would be nice to have it in text for people to see which is which.

Venichord3/6/2018, 4:31:35 AM1 votes

It seems like a good idea that does nothing to fix the actual problem of the champion balance but more of another one of your band-aids you seem to love so much. If the champions where in a fair and balanced state, there would be no need for items at all. Leave their powering up to leveling and neutral objectives. Minions could give more xp for last hits so they would still be relevant and the jungle buffs would still be useful. Probably more so in their old state where smiting them gave additional useful buffs. Why go away from that it was such a good mechanic; it stopped the selfish ADCs from constantly stealing all your jungle camps and gave tanky junglers a second purpose other than standing there and getting hit. I mean how hard can it really be to achieve balance? Simply assign point values to each stat and make sure each champion has the same number of points spread over the stats to give the variety of needed roles without one champ taking no damage but 1v5ing the other team..Garen,Nasus. This would also save the need of people Alt+tabbing to check the proper item build in the middle of a game. I think you've done a wonderful job simplifying the runes and masteries into a system that you really have to try to pick a set up that's bad for your current champ. I don't believe you can ever achieve that with items, so eliminate the problem.

Eedat3/5/2018, 1:48:02 AM1 votes

Ahhh good old jungle Nasus. That used to be a thing before they hard nerfed wither range.

He had the slowest clear in the game............ because he stopped to stack every single one. I can't imagine how long it would take him to clear krugs

jadelink3/5/2018, 3:16:49 AM1 votes

Seem viable and interesting if the numbers went right. Mundo is the only decent jg juggernaut now, because cinderhulk is actually what he wants.