Re-balancing Veigar

Arctic Wolf·1/28/2015, 1:52:45 AM·7 votes·1,138 views

Veigar Veigar; the Tiny Master of Evil! Those of us who play him frequently are deeply saddened by what was perhaps the most core item to his build, the DFG item 3128. Now, with 5.2 released and no Veigar alterations just yet, I feel this is the time to speak up to try to guide modifications in such a way that Veigar doesn't suffer further (since he already became twisted and demented from his years in prison). So, in this post I shall attempt to cover Veigar's champion concept both functionally and thematically, as well as make suggestions for balance changes. Feel free to comment with (constructive) criticisms and add your own ideas! If you care only to see how I altered his kit, and not necessarily the reasons behind it, feel free to skip this next section, it is rather wordy.


Veigar's Champion Concept:

Thematically: Veigar is in a unique position as one of the few truly evil characters in League of Legends. This is even more interesting since he is a Yordle, and they are commonly known as being a lively group full of spirit that generally fights for the forces of good. Though he wasn't always like this, Veigar's lore explains that his time spent alone in a Noxian prison cell drove him mad. After escaping the Noxian prison he sought the dark arts and became a powerful dark wizard. He now seeks to end conflict by bringing all Valoran city-states to their knees, regardless of affiliation.

Most of his kit was built to compliment his theme of a powerful dark wizard. His Q is low CD, making it good for harass, and has a passive which allows for one to accumulate AP infinitely throughout the game; his opponents should feel this sense of impending doom as Veigar becomes stronger and stronger as the game progresses. His W is an AoE nuke (though small in area), and while his E is a tricky to hit skill, it is the longest AoE stun in the game. Currently, his Ult functions the same way his Q does, however it is only able to target champions (and has some scaling off the enemy's AP). With these four abilities, he is able to scale insanely well into late game, lock up carries, delete them, and walk away laughing maniacally. If that isn't evil I don't know what is (except maybe this guyTeemo). His passive, equilibrium, is the one part of his kit which doesn't quite fit. Giving 1% increased mana regen for each missing 1% mana, this passive scales with a stat (Mana Regen) which Veigar virtually never purchases, preferring to invest in raw AP, Magic Pen, or even CDR before mana regen. Combined with the fact that item 3028 offers an even better passive (restores 2% of missing mana every 5 sec) for 880 gold, it often feels like Veigar's actual passive is the passive which is on his Q.

Functionally: As a champion, many people tend to think of Veigar as an anti-mage. While the excellent scaling of his ult, which even scales of off an enemy's own ability power leads many into thinking this, it is only half of the truth. A far more accurate description of Veigar function in game is that of an Anti-Carry, or Anti-Squishy if you will. It is certainly easier to delete an enemy who has massive amounts of AP, but even without the DFG Veigar should have little trouble taking on any carry who doesn't itemize some form of defense. This was especially true when the DFG granted him both AP and increased damage; with DFG it was possible to 100-0 a squishy enemy champion even if they built MR or no AP. This ability to delete squishy targets was kept in check by Veigar's low to middle range, lack of strong wave clear, reliance on mana/cooldowns for his burst, and low mobility. This left Veigar susceptible early to champions who outranged him Xerath, can waveclear to push him in Anivia, and to champions which can deal strong sustained damage Cassiopeia. While weak early, his strong AP scaling on his abilities, combined with his ability to stack AP infinitely by farming with Q, meant that Veigar can always be a damage threat late game. However, being squishy himself, Veigar is heavily reliant on his cooldowns to function in duels and teamfights, especially his Ult and Stun cooldowns.


Re-balancing Veigar in a Post-DFG Valoran:

When considering how to rebalance Veigar without DFG as an option I wanted to keep his core strengths and weaknesses as identified above, while staying true to his theme of an anti-squishy. This is what I came up with (for comparison, live veigar can be found here: http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Veigar)

Passive: Equilibrium removed. New Passive - Torment: Killing minions and monsters permanently stacks .5 AP. This bonus is doubled against large minions and monsters. Champion kills and assists permanently stack 10 AP.

While this may seem like a lot of AP which can be gained, it is actually less than live if you were to merely stick to farming with Q's. A total of 6 AP (8 for cannon waves) can be secured with live veigar and proper CD's etc... but this would require perfect CS to get half of that (3, or 4 for cannon). This is to discourage an AFK farm-to-win style where massive AP can be gained from simply last hitting with Q. In return, AP value for champion kills is doubled and assists are now included in the stacking minigame.

Q: Baleful Strike - Passive Removed Range: 650 Cost 40/50/60/70/80 Cooldown: 4
Active: Magic Damage of 80/110/140/170/200 + 75% AP

Q is Veigar's main form of farming and trading in lane, yet when compared to other mages this ability had a fairly long CD early for very high mana costs. Given that its old function was also what allowed for AP scaling, that is understandable. However, now that farming with Q won't give you AP more than farming any other way will, I have reduced its early game mana costs (they will scale up to the same as live at rank 5) and cooldown and adjusted base damage down and AP scaling up to compensate. For comparison, Syndra's Q and Annie's Q at rank 5 have the same CD and Mana cost as Veigar's Q. Annie's Q has 220 Base damage and 80% AP Scaling, Syndra (against champions) has 264.5 base with 69% AP Scaling.

W: Dark Matter - Range: 900 Radius: 125 units Delay: 1.25 sec Cooldown: 10 Cost: 60/70/80/90/100
Magic Damage: 100/150/200/250/300 + 100% AP.

This changed very little from live; for reducing the base damage by 20 at all ranks I have reduced the mana cost by 10 at all ranks and slightly increased the AoE radius from 112.5 to 125. This overall is increasing the area by 10%, or 78.5 total Units.

E: Event Horizon - Same as live There's not much I can do to this ability that won't make it either useless or completely OP. As a Veigar player, I'd love it if the center of the cage had additional CC effects (like Raka's Silence or some form of Slow) but then the stun duration would almost certainly need to be reduced, which could make hitting the combo impossible depending on how short it became.

The ult is where I got most creative and as a result I have a few iterations of it:

R: Primordial Burst - Cost 100 mana at all ranks (down from 125/175/225) Cooldown: 130/110/90 Magic Damage: 250/375/500 + 120% AP New function: Marks the target with a singularity for 5 seconds. The when active singularity stores 30%/40%/50% of the magic damage dealt by Veigar. After 5 seconds or upon second activation the singularity will explode, dealing the stored damage to all units in a 400-unit radius from the afflicted champion and slowing enemies for 30%/40%/50%.

Before you shout MORE BROKEN THAN RIVEN'S SWORD, unlike Zed's deathmark, this would not deal bonus damage in addition to the damage dealt. Rather, a target marked by Veigar's ult would actually take reduced damage from him during that time they are marked, only to have it explode up to 5 seconds later in an AoE, which can damage the entire enemy team. This gives Veigar a lot of strategic diversity on how his ult will be used; Veigar can use it to catch high priority targets, like say a 18-2 vayne, and try to 1-shot her. Or, it can also be saved for teamfights, where you mark someone who will now deal massive damage to their allies if they try to help (Thresh Don't click the lanturn, I'll die!). While you still retain the power to nuke squishies, it wouldn't be quite as strong as before. So if your ult slows, do you Stun(E)+W+Ult+Q, or do you try to just Ult+Q and then catch up to them with the slow to land the stun and E+W+Q for maximum damage? Will you get caught out trying to maximize your damage potential this way?

As I appear to be running out of room, I shall again request any constructive criticisms/feedback but more so than that, just hope that someone from Riot is listening so that regardless of what is done to Veigar, he still retains his fun characteristics, his strengths and weaknesses, and is still useful as a niche pick. (I'll try to list my other ideas for his ult below with what room I have left, I kept that one first since it is my favorite)


Alternative Ult Ideas (these will not be as detailed as above):

#2 Cost 100 at all ranks (Seriously that needs to happen) Same CD/Base Damage as live, 150% AP Scaling, No scaling off of enemy AP.

#3 Cost 100 at all ranks. CD same as live. Base Damage: 350/450/550, 100% AP Scaling, Ult is a skill shot slow AoE Burst (Think Corki's Phosphorus Bomb, but not quite as big an area, yet larger than W, maybe 200 unit Radius)

6 Comments

Lord Dusteon1/28/2015, 2:57:32 AM3 votes

...Can we not remove his awesome AP scaling? That was and is one of my main reasons for picking him.

Garnet Dust2/7/2015, 12:13:08 AM2 votes

This thread is super relevant and needs more love! These upcoming changes can totally change how Veigar is played the rest of the season!

Phife1/28/2015, 1:55:04 AM1 votes

to much words. Upvoted.

Cloud2731/28/2015, 1:57:43 AM1 votes

No! Fuk Veigar. I welcome any nerfs he receives. His stun gives him an enormous amount of safety (just hide behind the huge thing) and objective control. And he scales extremely well with his 'q' passive and his ult. Veigar deserves more nerfs than this. Be thankful that they're only getting rid of his item, and not nerfing his abilities.

ModAcademy Kayn1/28/2015, 2:08:29 AM1 votes

I personally hate the idea of a unmissable heavy nuke. It would allow an easier time to zhoyna's, if you're not stunned that is, so I can't be instantly erased. I'm a personal fan of ult #3 alteration since, like said, dodge able for what damage it does. Adc's with mobility could dash from it or mages with speed might escape the stun.

SirPacifista1/29/2015, 12:50:39 AM1 votes

Please no ;D i love Veigar as he is now, it would be enough if he would gain percentage mr penetration on ANY ability