Boards›Gameplay

Huge problems with /remake

Game girl 1·5/18/2016, 7:56:05 PM·31 votes·9,958 views

Ok for anyone who hasn't read the article yet, read about it here: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/player-behavior/play-games-matter/remake

Anyway if you don't want to read it I'll quickly summarize. Basically Riot is trying to crack down on afk's and is implementing this new system that will allow games to be restarted (with no gains/losses to lp) if anyone has been afk for at least 1:30 before the 3 min mark. All non-afk players will see no gains or losses in lp and the game will simply not count. The afk player will lose all of his lp for the match (20-30) and receive punishment from leaver-buster.

So most of you are probably thinking, "great! I never afk so this only benefits me and will stop frustrating 4v5's." Which is true, this will definitely help in those situations when a game is lost straight from the beginning because one player never connected.

HOWEVER, the problem is not the idea of allowing games to be remade, the problem is the fact that you only have 1:30 to reconnect before losing ALL of your lp and heres why.

Problem 1:

League crashes a lot. And before you say, "ok mate, just buy a better computer yeh?" Let me make this clear. People who say this are close minded, self centered people with illusions that people can just spend money willy nilly. Maybe your parents did/do buy you anything you wanted. This is hardly the case for most people. Also this problem can occur on ANY computer. I'm sure most of you have experienced this at some point or another, but if your game crashes while loading in, IT DOESN'T LET YOU RECONNECT UNTILL THE GAME HAS STARTED. Even worse, you can't even tell when the game has started, so you might attempt to connect right before it does, have to wait for the error message to pop up (30-60 seconds), force quit the game (10-30 seconds) and then reconnect (30-120 seconds.) So why should anyone lose 20-30 of their lp because Riot has not fixed this issue? The fact that you are only given 90 seconds to reconnect is absurd when league has constant crashes. Not to mention sometimes you can't even tell weather or not your game has crashed, which means it will be to late by the time you begin to realize your game is crashed. As a side not, sometimes if your internet times out for a short period of time while the game is attempting to load, this same problem happens where you have to wait for the game to start before you can BEGIN loading in.

Problem 2:

This is not exactly a problem but more something that seems a little strange to me.

>JUST SO YOU GUYS KNOW, I've run quit a few leagues that have used ELO rating so I know a little bit about how this system works.

So for those of you that don't know, ranked still uses ELO to determine your rank. The lp system is more or less just a package around the ELO system that makes it more engaging and easier to use. This is why sometimes you win and only get +10 while you may lose and suffer - 30. Your MMR (or ELO) is very low so the system is trying to drop you down to your MMR's division quickly until you start winning more. When your winning a lot, your MMR goes up so you start gaining more lp per win, and losses are less detrimental.

Now with the way ELO works, you cannot simply add or subtract rating willy nilly. For someone to lose ELO rating, another person needs to gain it. If you take the ELO rating of every person ever to play ranked in league, add it together, and find the average, you will get leagues baseline MMR. This is the way ELO works. For example say everyone starts at 800, and the K value (the maximum yet impossible +/- rating in a single match... kinda) is 100, then if two people who just joined this league played each other, both with 800 rating, then the winner would gain 50 rating (because if the players are essentially equally skilled, then they gain half the K value for a win), and the loser loses 50 rating. If you average 750 and 850 what do you get? 800. This is essentially the fundamentals of ELO rating because 800 is the baseline that you compare your rating to, in order to determine your relative rank or skill or whatever.

Now lets say that when Riot removes all of your lp because your game crashed (shameless example indeed), they also subtract from your MMR in order to actually punish you. Player 1, not at 850 rating loses 150 rating as punishment, leaving him at 700 rating. Player 2 still has 750 rating, so the new average is now 725. However new players who have joined in but have not played any games yet are at 800 rating, which means they start ABOVE the actual baseline MMR. TL;DR THIS FUCKS THE SYSTEM UP.

Now lets talk about dodging penalties. Every time you dodge a game, you lose a negligible amount of lp (3/10/whatever.) This superficial punishment is used to dissuade people from dodging but does not actually effect them in anyway because their MMR is not touched. This is why, hypothetically, if you get your promos, and dodge out of them multiple times in a row, once you win them you might actually jump 1 or 2 divisions because your MMR will be so high.

>So the question is, will the afk lp penalty be superficial as well? Or will Riot actually remove MMR from you with some weird equations that keep the balance anyway, or maybe they will introduce a new dynamic MMR system where the baseline continually shifts around. (doubt it.)

Also as a side note, I'm not saying losing lp does not affect you, because it does... in the short term. You might drop a division because of this or be held in a division for a little longer, but in the long run it will have 0 effect on how fast you climb.

Anyway this is just my take on the whole /remake system but I honestly think that problem 1 especially could have serious issues concerning league client crashes. 1:30 is in no way long enough to reconnect to a game after a crash. Rioter comments would be greatly appreciated.

. . . .

EDIT: Also if you have any questions about ELO or are trying to start a league and use this system, ask me anything I can help you out with the ins and outs of how it works.

70 Comments

FurretHasAGlock5/18/2016, 7:58:54 PM6 votes

I would be in favor of making it so it's afk for 2 minutes....

Vistha Kai5/18/2016, 8:53:33 PM5 votes

Weather

http://img.memecdn.com/grammar-nazis-start-crying-when-they-see-your-posts_o_334445.gif?noredirect

Embertine5/18/2016, 8:39:27 PM4 votes

Truer words have never been spoken.

Literally every time my client has crashed, and I'm not kidding here, I mean literally every time, it has always taken between 5 and 10 minutes to reconnect.

This new system will not be healthy for league.

SIayton5/19/2016, 1:27:13 AM3 votes

#FixYourShit

Regardless of the few people that will get screwed by this, they will still save LP lost in the long run because of the amount of "guaranteed lose" 4v5s they'll be able to get out of. If you chronically have a problem connecting to league.... fix your shit. I have no sympathy for someone who consistently can't connect before a minute thirty. That's not our problem. That's on you.

The quality of life overall for most ranked players will be greatly improved.

Luciana Siren5/19/2016, 7:49:26 PM3 votes

I have not read all the previous posts, so I apologize if I repeat someone else's thoughts. I think that the remake system is very far from perfect, but a good idea.

The first 90 seconds (even 3 minutes) is a very short time, many people happen to technical problems at the start, and this time at the start does not mean so much, because it is only 1 minute 40 seconds, the first wave of minions and there are forest monsters. During this time, the other players will not be able to understand completely gone AFK player or delayed. For comparison, on the AFC warning comes only 3 minutes, the game is turned off 5 minutes into the game.

Secondly, a lot of people go out to the poor start of the game, or when they are something starts to irritate, or when other players are not willing to give up. There most players, this innovation does not help to deal with it.

Third, it is unfair to punish people who played a 4x5, maybe they do a stupid thing, or thought they could win, or hoped, that their players come back, and maybe all contacted through Skype, and they know that the AFC player battery on the mouse village and replaces it now. And even if they were playing 4x5, then they are already punished. If they win in this game, they will demonstrate their skills, and this victory is more than deserved. I understand that Riot want to use this system and do not want someone won an undeserved victory, but it can be done other than to deprive well-deserved. People do not like when they are deprived of choice, forced. They do not like injustice. It is unpleasant and you may lose players because of it.

In connection with all of the above I have a proposal: instead of the timer for 90 seconds at the beginning of the game, put a timer for 7 minutes (5-10) on the continuation of the game. That is, if the player is not in the game or inactive 7 minutes - to display a vote on remake games. I hope it will be seen. P.S. I am sorry for ugly English.

DarkRitual5/18/2016, 11:29:12 PM2 votes

Solutiuon to 2: Do not change MMR/ELO, only LP. Make it count as a dodge once the remake goes through.

Naramiel5/20/2016, 5:36:51 PM2 votes

I think that /remake is a good change... but it makes it much more important that Riot fix their loading screen (which they should have done already). From a technical standpoint, the loading screen is absolutely the worst part of LoL, and has received barely any updates since the game was first released.

Kanzler5/18/2016, 8:02:26 PM2 votes

Insulting your readers and being wrong about the intent of the system isn't a great way to start off a novel and hope to get real replies.

grug5/20/2016, 5:05:55 PM1 votes

simply extend the timer to 10 minutes? or whatever time you deem to be the point of no return

FireStorm218/2/2016, 8:48:25 PM1 votes

If you are the one that caused the remake, does your mmr go down?

1shopmrbeast8/28/2016, 1:38:25 PM1 votes

First off 4v5 is not a fucking guaranteed loss. I've won games plenty of time 4v5 even a few 3v5. Secondly remake is redicoulous here's how it should be remake at 10 min mark. If one of three things are applicable atleast 3 towers behind more then 5k gold difference or one person has more then 8 kills. The game is barely even started at 3 mins at in no way can be determined a loss in that small amount of time

aceroluz10/24/2016, 3:48:10 AM1 votes

sometimes when i managed to connect back, my f@cking teammates will still do the stupid vote in the next few seconds, causing the game to end earlier and make me end with the low priority queue thing. DO YOU KNOW HOW FRUSTRATING THAT IS?!?!

Eleventhmage3/7/2017, 4:52:47 PM1 votes

I just experienced it. The game doesnt let me connect... while the others are in the loading screen, So i had to wait until they have connected to be able to connect to the game myself but well it takes sometime because if you connect too early you will wait and stare at a black screen... then they remaked just when i was at 50% and i lost LP for nothing great update riot... I don't think 1-5 minutes early game will make the game decided already.... i mean think about it its 90% of the times where baron or the last teamfight decide THE WHOLE GAME... Instead to make a /pause vote they make this trash /remake decision... ppl wont wait 5minutes but are crying like whiny kids when they lose the game, because it's 4v5. And what if someone just was at the toilette for 1-2mins because well who likes to stare at the loading screen? Remake is just plain stupid that's my opinion.[zombie-brand-facepalm]

Naeemah10/2/2017, 3:20:24 PM1 votes

I never leave but while joining a game today we had a power cur come back to find they had obviously remade, the power wasn't even off that long, and as it was ranked lost tons of points and now flagged for leaving a game that i didn't actually leave with the situation being out of my hands, its sad there is no way to find out leavers from people who actually have an issue, i have a really good computer too so loading back in wasn't a problem but you have such a small window to get back on the remake was already done. sigh

Viralimpulse5/18/2016, 7:59:32 PM1 votes

my league has never crashed since 2014.

DarkRitual5/19/2016, 2:28:42 AM1 votes

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/player-behavior/play-games-matter/remake

Of note: the /remake prompt occurs at the 3 minute mark, so players have the full loading screen time (which is often quite extended if there's a disconnect), plus three minutes to be attempting to get back into game.

exigentomic5/19/2016, 4:56:58 AM1 votes

I disagree. If you connected later than 1:30, you're already putting your team at a big disadvantage and they shouldn't have to suffer for it.

EMeta5/19/2016, 5:04:42 AM1 votes

On the first point, I'm just going to say that this is a trial, and if it doesn't work, they'll fix it. That's what trials are about. Frankly, I think it's an excellent first step.

On the second, you misunderstand the point of the LP/MMR distinction. Yes, it's a cute wrapper, but the real reason they're different things is so Riot can change one without changing the other. Dodging is the prime example of this. If you dodge, you lose LP, but not MMR. This /remake system was not built to be punitive, just helpful for the other 9 players who want a real game, so Riot has no reason to change your MMR for it. Getting a d/c probably doesn't mean you're a worse player, so Riot will continue thinking you're at the same elo level, and leave your MMR the same accordingly.

dark100dark1005/19/2016, 4:03:48 PM1 votes

Being an AFK should be a rare event (I usually have net or client issues in 1 of 200 games) , so even if you loose MMR, your position is unaffected in the long run.

ZT Xperimentor5/19/2016, 4:14:22 PM1 votes

Problem 3. It's abusable; suppose a team of friends with mixed ranks gets set up against a team they don't like. One of them that doesn't care about rank can drop out, while the other 4 just run around the base for 2 minutes, then restart the game.

Malfini5/19/2016, 9:35:19 PM1 votes

[{quoted}](name=game girl 1,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KcLZ2pMb,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-05-18T19:56:05.868+0000)

Ok for anyone who hasn't read the article yet, read about it here: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/player-behavior/play-games-matter/remake

Anyway if you don't want to read it I'll quickly summarize.

Problem 1:

League crashes a lot. And before you say, "ok mate, just buy a better computer yeh?" Let me make this clear. People who say this are close minded, self centered people with illusions that people can just spend money willy nilly. Maybe your parents did/do buy you anything you wanted. This is hardly the case for most people. Also this problem can occur on ANY computer. I'm sure most of you have experienced this at some point or another, but if your game crashes while loading in, IT DOESN'T LET YOU RECONNECT UNTILL THE GAME HAS STARTED. Even worse, you can't even tell when the game has started, so you might attempt to connect right before it does, have to wait for the error message to pop up (30-60 seconds), force quit the game (10-30 seconds) and then reconnect (30-120 seconds.) So why should anyone lose 20-30 of their lp because Riot has not fixed this issue? The fact that you are only given 90 seconds to reconnect is absurd when league has constant crashes. Not to mention sometimes you can't even tell weather or not your game has crashed, which means it will be to late by the time you begin to realize your game is crashed. As a side not, sometimes if your internet times out for a short period of time while the game is attempting to load, this same problem happens where you have to wait for the game to start before you can BEGIN loading in.

No it does not. LoL client crashing ALOT is an exaggeration but YMMV.

Problem 2:

This is not exactly a problem but more something that seems a little strange to me.

>JUST SO YOU GUYS KNOW, I've run quit a few leagues that have used ELO rating so I know a little bit about how this system works.

So for those of you that don't know, ranked still uses ELO to determine your rank. The lp system is more or less just a package around the ELO system that makes it more engaging and easier to use. This is why sometimes you win and only get +10 while you may lose and suffer - 30. Your MMR (or ELO) is very low so the system is trying to drop you down to your MMR's division quickly until you start winning more. When your winning a lot, your MMR goes up so you start gaining more lp per win, and losses are less detrimental.

Now with the way ELO works, you cannot simply add or subtract rating willy nilly. For someone to lose ELO rating, another person needs to gain it. If you take the ELO rating of every person ever to play ranked in league, add it together, and find the average, you will get leagues baseline MMR. This is the way ELO works. For example say everyone starts at 800, and the K value (the maximum yet impossible +/- rating in a single match... kinda) is 100, then if two people who just joined this league played each other, both with 800 rating, then the winner would gain 50 rating (because if the players are essentially equally skilled, then they gain half the K value for a win), and the loser loses 50 rating. If you average 750 and 850 what do you get? 800. This is essentially the fundamentals of ELO rating because 800 is the baseline that you compare your rating to, in order to determine your relative rank or skill or whatever.

Let Riot sort out the code or any modifications needed. Until then, yours are pretty much a speculation regarding the elo.