Does Garen Promote Uninteractive Gameplay?

LuunaLily·8/14/2016, 7:37:50 AM·5 votes·1,087 views

Is it just me or is Garen always irritating to lane against?

Before you downvote, or I see the "silver scrub" posts, just bear with me. A little disclaimer, it's not that I have trouble laning against Garen, I just think it promotes gameplay that is inherently unhealthy.

It feels like his kit encourages an uninteractive lane and could use a little bit more counterplay. Not only does his kit make the lane frustrating for his opponent, but it must be frustrating for Garen as well.

Essentially Garen's counterplay is either; ~ Don't go near him as a melee champ ~ Prevent him from playing the game as a ranged champ

It just seems like Riot has sacrificed a lot for Garen players and lane opponents, simply to make him accessible for newer players. But do Garen players really feel like it's a rewarding experience? His passive requires next to no interaction, either it's useless if you're getting poked or oppressive for the enemy. (With that said the regen is less impressive than I originally thought.) His Q is a silence, which is essentially lets Garen spin on top of you while you scream internally mashing buttons. His W is free stats and damage reduction yawn. His e isn't so bad (and I personally love the crit interactions). Then his R essentially punishes you for trading with him at all. Because if you get under "x amount of hp" you're instantly dead.

Just curious if this lane frustrates anyone else. I've been spamming Poppy for the past few days and find him really easy to deal with. But I don't like that my win condition is essentially; "Push him out/kill him, or you run out of mana and he wins by default."

I would love to get a Rioter to talk about this, because I feel like there is a lot you could do with Garen. But he seems to lose out on interactive gameplay at the cost of his accessibility.

Edit: Hey downvote people! Please voice your opinion as well, would love to hear your take on it!

16 Comments

AwesomeChad8/14/2016, 7:53:05 AM3 votes

Press Q. Autoattack. Press W. Press E. Wait until E finishes then Press R or Q then R. His kit is lack-luster. Riot has even made changes to his kit since his release yet these changes only maintained his lack-luster state. Seriously needs more thought put into reworking his kit.

TheManbeck8/14/2016, 8:06:00 AM2 votes

Yea I feel he's a pain to play against. I hate his whole kit, and how well he synergizes with items.(Cleaver Sunfire RG Ghostblade etc) If you're playing adc and a garen happens to get to you, he uses his Q E combo on you, then you're too low to fight back because his ult will kill you. It's so boring and frustrating. Playing as him, it's just the same thing over and over again. In a teamfight you literally tank all the damage you can while damaging their backline, but after all you get kited and die for no good cause. So yeah I agree with you

Requiemsfire8/14/2016, 9:38:47 AM2 votes

Garen could use more options in his kit than just simply run faster and silence, or spin around recklessly.

Still not quite the lack of interaction that you get as Yorick doe.

Swiftstrike48/14/2016, 10:10:51 AM2 votes

There is a difference between "counterplay" and being "noninteractive" or unfun. Counterplay suggests he is difficult to respond to due to the nature of his kit, while noninteractive suggests he is a boring lane opponent.

He has counterplay, most champions do, but I would classify Garen as just being a "predictable" laning opponent. His entire kit is telegraphed, you KNOW what he is going to try to do, due to the nature of his kit and it your job to stop him. Champions like Garen Tryndamere Renekton all try to do similar things and their kit is very obvious to their opponents what their next move will be. How well one does with the champion largely is due to execution.

His passive could change, but top laners all have some type of sustain in lane. His passive syncs up with so many items that he is virtually unkillable unless you chain CC in longer games.

Garen use to be more of a lane bully prior the juggernaut rework than he is now. I think his kit should be altered, but not because he is noninteractive, but because he is a pretty weak top laner.

I think most players outgrow Garen. He is pretty simple to play OK, but harder to play at a high level. He just is not a flashy top laner, but don't think he needs to be, they just need to make some adjustments to his kit.

There are several other champions I would list ahead of Garen that promote "unhealthy" gameplay.

I am surprised that you are complaining about garen over other champions like Nasus. For the most part Nasus just passively farms unless the opponent fucks up, there is a gank, or he is stronger than his laner. But that's what I love about playing and laning against him and other predictable champions. It really is just a skill matchup at that point.

YSeT9iEzJK8/14/2016, 11:29:52 AM2 votes

Garen one trick pony gold 1 here.

Garen is the master at capitalising on mistakes. In low elo people complain about him because they don't know how to play around him. Many times I play on my smurf in bronze and silver and they make the same mistakes. Even every melee champion usually has some form of a ranged ability nowadays to either farm or poke. Garen does not.

However in higher elos people tend to make less mistakes.

Garen is in a very weak state right now. He is not strong and doesn't really counter anybody anymore, whereas he gets countered by everybody. Indirect item nerfs, rylais/frozen mallet, meta doesn't favour him very well right now.

Garen needs either movement speed buffs, or a rework. I'd prefer they remove the villain mechanic so he can finally progress as a champion.

Also people downvoted this thread not because of what you said, but because you are inheritally suggesting Garen has "no counterplay" in melee range. If Garen had no strength in the range he tries so hard to get to, then what is he good at ?

Edo19968/14/2016, 8:54:00 PM2 votes

They need to give garen a real rework,He got a rework in 2012,2015 (juggernaut update) and all of his abilites are the same... And still he's in a shitty state,the solution would be to replace his passive health regen with some in combat sustain honestly

warpenguin5558/14/2016, 1:24:49 PM1 votes

no. uninteractive would be like Ezreal who doesn't ever really get near you, he just throws out q all lane.

LuunaLily8/14/2016, 10:52:13 AM1 votes

All very good points.

Simply put, I find the matchup to be a little too binary. I believe there must be a way they could fix his passive so that it isn't an infinite health pool against melee champs and a crutch against ranged champs. It's either strong or useless and Garen has no say in the matter. (You could leave lane to regen but then you lose xp and gold). Also my main issue with Garen is that he's cooldown based. As I said above, the lane amounts to, kill him/make him back before you run out of mana or he wins by default.

Totally forgot about Nasus (haven't seen him in a while). I agree, he is just as bad as Garen. As his sustain is almost greater than Garen's and he doesn't really need to interact with a champion at all to succeed going into the late game.

Thank you for the insightful comments!