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"Ryzing Concerns: an Average players thoughts on an Iconic Champion."

Cron0s··14 votes·1,135 views

First off, I absolutely love the newly re-worked Ryze. In fact, it seems to be the only thing I really crave playing. Everything about the blue-man feels fun and at times undeniably frustrating, and although that sounds like a bad thing it really isn't because I almost always look back and attempt to think of how I could have played things differently.

After finally reaching Level Seven Mastery with Ryze, I decided to reflect back at my experiences with the champion and I couldn't help but wonder how much thought went into this identity of a "Mage-Archetype" and the "intended" role I was predisposed to. I know for certain that there must of been more minds than I can imagine and countless kit iterations, with each bringing a unique and most likely refreshing perspective into the culmination of what Ryze would potentially relay to the Rift, but what really perplexed me was only a simple question: How am I supposed to play this? I found myself coming full circle to when I first picked him up, and all those games between really felt like they made no difference. This experience was definitely a first for me and to be honest I believe this is the reason I keep coming back to Ryze.

Now, obviously I have learned quite a bit mechanically. I've learned the do's and dont's of laning with Ryze in both Mid and Top lanes. I have learned quite a bit about how his abilities work with one another, specifically the more subtle nuances of chaining them together (Shield and Retreat? Turn and Burn? or Sustained Chase? etc.). I absolutely love some of the interesting situations that his ultimate creates and have seen many a late game, but in the end of the day unless I am way ahead of my opposition, I consistently seem to find myself falling short and I can't quite pinpoint one reason.

Now I decided to perform an exercise: When I think of Ryze what comes to mind?

I ended up with: Ryze: Mage, Mana-focused, Late game, Hyper-Carry, "Blue", Simple.

Then I did another exercise: When you play Ryze what can you associate with him?

I concluded: Ryze: Ramp-Up, Late Game, Utility, Wave Clear, Roamer, Team-Fight, Skill-Shots, Movement, Complex, Combos.

So where am I going with this?

Ryze has been subject to several substantial changes. Some of the original identity of Ryze: Mage, Mana, Blue, Hyper-carry, have all transcended into his current form. However, new elements have made their way into the champion and these changes have deep impacting effects as to how he plays and how he can be balanced. The last iteration of Ryze was a great example of two streams that have been crossing and are continuously crossing that are very sensitive: utility vs. raw damage. Giving Ryze a utility element such as his current ultimate in combination to his original intended design of being a late-game hyper-carry mage is a very risky proposition in terms of balance. Give too little and the champion never comes to fruition, enable him too much and he will be all over the rift, and not by choice but by necessity. Combine this with an, "Easy-to-pick-up, difficult-to-master" curve and you have a balancing nightmare.

Right now, Ryze feels like a nightmare, but an ironically good one.

He is close to his mark, but still a bit off and I am more than happy to play him and continue to learn as time goes on.

If there were any fingers I would have to point as being prime offenders to Ryze, it would be the current items which Ryze is pigeonholed into, item 3070 and item 3010. Currently Ryze is taking way too long to have an impact in most games. His pacing is just a tad bit slow and this is mainly because Ryze can not afford to deviate from these two items which lack the AP his passive thirst for.

This also creates the situation where if Ryze gets an early gold advantage, gains a solid lead and gets over what I like to call this "Item-Wall," he can quickly start stacking his ability power items which just compounds his lead and makes him pretty much an unstoppable blue monster.

Aside from this, Ryze has a really underwhelming level 6 "Power-Spike." because his ultimate is pure utility. Since the power of utility is a very fickle and abstract concept in terms of balance, it is difficult to get right. Once again, enable him too much, and he will over-perform and vice versa, so the recent subtle buff was admirable but still off the overall mark of what is holding Ryze back.

Now Ryze's biggest drawback factor currently is his late access to AP... so why not give Ryze some when he hits level 6/11? Maybe a item 1026 's worth each? This way he stays relevant at level's 6/11 but doesn't hit that extra bit most champions do at 16, because he already scales extremely well due to item 3070 and item 3010 in junction with his passive.

Just an average player's thoughts on a definitely above average champion. Thanks for reading.

**TL/DR: Ryze is a Blue-Hyper-Carry-Mage who is really difficult to balance properly given his current kit. Giving Ryze AP at levels 6/11 could tip the scales just enough to give Ryze a better chance in the Rift. **

12 Comments

Navarune5 votes

One of the most articulate posts I have read on these forums, and very well thought out as well. I think your suggestion is actually a really good one, although "free power" can be given via base damage buffs as well rather than raw AP attached to his ult.

Jhin UItd JFK1 votes

{quoted}

One of the most articulate posts I have read on these forums, and very well thought out as well. I think your suggestion is actually a really good one, although "free power" can be given via base damage buffs as well rather than raw AP attached to his ult.

Buffing the base damages would further alienate the powerspike (if you could call it that) he gets from level 6 and his overall impact in the game, while making his laning phase better, which is bad because it could become oppressive and warrant him nerfs.

If AP or some kind of "damage buff" was given to him through a passive on his ult, it would help him spike a bit better compared to other champions and at least let him hold his own until he can get his Tear stacked up.

Cron0s1 votes

I can't agree more here and it rings true to the original concept I was aiming at. I have been keeping track of most of my games encompassing the standard item 3070 -> into item 3010 roughly around the 9-14 minute mark noticing that my AP (give or take blue buff) is virtually non-existent at this time. Although Ryze does translate damage via his passive through the mana he gains, it is very underwhelming compared to the potential damage outputs of other mages at this time. Now, we know this is intended, as Ryze is a hyper-carry and needs to work towards the dream scenario of becoming an unstoppable force, but currently there are much better hyper-carry/utility mages that safely and reliably accomplish this goal (Cassiopeia, Taliyah, Anivia, I am looking at you guys for starters). Ryze needs to have moments of clear power outside of his late-game and I believe that these moments should be short and brief but existent none-the-less.

Marshbouy3 votes

This also creates the situation where if Ryze gets an early gold advantage, gains a solid lead and gets over what I like to call this "Item-Wall," he can quickly start stacking his ability power items which just compounds his lead and makes him pretty much an unstoppable blue monster.

i agree with this a lot. If you start snowballing with ryze, it's monsterous how powerful you are. but if you get behind it's hard to come back until wayyyy later.

XIII Vanitas2 votes

Have you tried going item 3070 item 3165, without building item 3027?

Cron0s2 votes

I have, but not consistent enough to say that I know what I am doing. item 3165 is an amazing item all around for Ryze and I know it does provide the power-spike I was looking for in Jhin's response. However, I traditionally steer clear of it because I find more often than not that Ryze benefits from the additional durability of item 3027 opposed to the raw damage of item 3165. Another note, CDR is unquestionably important on Ryze and I do see how item 3165 translates very well into late game, but for a mid ranged mage who needs to ramp-up damage and spread flux, I typically favor item 3027's HP as it helps Ryze last longer in fights in junction with item 3003. I will however continue to test both builds and ideally there are cost/benefits to both depending on what kind of opponents you are facing... IE: AP assassins? Such as Fizz/LB/Diana? or Long ranged mages? Viktor, Xerath, Anivia? Or AD assassins Zed, Talon? Each of these scenarios typically require some sort of itemized adaptation that can alter what Ryze would ideally build.

XIII Vanitas1 votes

If you decide to go item 3070 item 3165, you can add item 3030 later into your build for a little bit of self-peel and durability.

Handy Sandy 1 votes

a blue azir basically

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

New rule for smurfing.

All smurfs must use Ryze.

Very articulate poat though, i'm learning Ryze so i have an AP top whenever my mid decides to go Yasou or Zed.

I have a question. Early game do i only farm with AAs or can i try waveclear comboes?

Cron0s1 votes

In all honesty, it depends highly on the match-up and jungle presence. Normally I would play it safe and try to control the wave only expending mana if you have to. If a gank opportunity presents itself it might be to your best interest to preserve as much mana as possible outside of stacking tear to ensure that you can respond to your jungle or potentially solo kill your opponent (although I find it rare).

dEAdbUs1 votes

Another cancerous ult, I'm starting to believe old designers were better. 95% of reworks are fails.

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

never played ryze but new ryze is way squishier. than the old. his combo is slower. but deals more damage. which is nice. but he needs higher base stats to make him survive more.

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