1) Zed's shurikens now work like Lux's Light Binding

Be Kind Rewind·1/10/2015, 4:22:33 PM·233 votes·11,979 views

http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121107025127/leagueoflegends/images/c/c3/Razor_Shuriken.jpg Full damage on first enemy hit, stops on 2nd enemy hit for reduced damage. (60%, same as it is now.)

He retains all of the burst needed for single-target assassination, as is his identity, but fixes his mana-less, infinite harass/waveclear problem. It also allows some counterplay by hiding behind minions, but rewards him more for using his shadow to reach around minions to strike his opponent. It provides counterplay, and also encourages strategy on his part.

  1. When Zed ulti's and then appears behind you, Zed must now wait 4/2/0 seconds before he can teleport back to his ulti shadow. The delay before he can recall to his ult shadow starts at 4, decreases to 2, then hits 0 at max rank. (This is unaffected by CDR.)

That way he loses the oppressively obnoxious tower-diving tendencies but retains his safety for mid-game and late-game teamfights and duels away from turrets. However, the duration of the damage buff before Death Mark procs is now increased to 4 (5?) seconds, allowing for more bonus damage and making Zhonya's less effective at blocking out the ulti's full damage. If you Zhonya's during the early damage, it wears off and the proc still hits you; if you hold off on Zhonya's to block the mark's proc with it, then you're still susceptible to the burst damage beforehand. This makes him less hard-countered by the item, and also encourages more strategy on his part; he might want to bait out the enemy's Zhonya's, then blow his damage combo on them right as it ends, before the mark procs - thus getting his full damage out regardless. This isn't possible currently but would be with these changes to increase the mark duration. http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121107025242/leagueoflegends/images/c/cd/Death_Mark.jpg

Again, no number change; he still maintains his full burst power, but without being able to nonchalantly towerdive whoever he wants. This is similar to the small cooldown between Kassadin's ult casts and Akali's ult casts, preventing them (and now Zed) from making stupidly risky plays just to instantaneously fly back out. Also, CC'ing him under tower when he dives you actually punishes him now because he can't just warp away instantaneously afterwards.

  1. His passive no longer works on minions. http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121107025046/leagueoflegends/images/c/c7/Contempt_for_the_Weak.jpg

The result? He maintains his full assassination power as well as his extreme mobility, but isn't able to nonchalantly poke from 1,300 range forever at no cost, and drops his mage-tier waveclear, neither of which made any sense for an AD Melee assassin. Furthermore, pushing the wave against him now functions as some counterplay because he doesn't have a free ez-pz under-tower cs'ing effect from his passive.

Again, I need to stress; he still remains extremely mobile and has all of the same single-target killing potential. Thus retaining his strengths as a relatively safe assassin and as an excellent splitpusher. He also gains more 1v1 dueling power through the increased duration of the death mark's damage buffs. This allows for slightly easier Zhonya's timing, but it also makes Zhonya's not hard-counter him so much because you can't block all of the buffed damage AND the proc - only one or the other. (since Zhonya's won't last almost the entire duration of the mark anymore.)

Thoughts?

EDIT: MAJOR CHANGE. The delay before he can recall to his ult shadow starts at 4, decreases to 2, then hits 0 at max rank. (This is unaffected by CDR.)

That way he loses the oppressively obnoxious tower-diving tendencies but retains his safety for mid-game and late-game teamfights and duels away from turrets.

It's the perfect fix.

217 Comments

TonyTonyMordecai1/10/2015, 6:42:22 PM56 votes

This is possibly the most reasonable nerf to Zed's abilities I've seen, so far. Great job!

JJI7441/10/2015, 5:06:24 PM26 votes

1 and 3 make sense. An assassin with manaless/ ranged waveclear and brain-dead last-hitting doesn't work thematicly, or practicly..

#2 would probably break both the flow of the champion and his viability as a whole. Akali has Shroud+Hourglass to survive when she leaps into melee range. Kass can keep to the edge of teamfights. Zed effectively has to leap into the middle of the enemy team and doesn't really have any defensive options to keep him alive for 4 seconds.

Heiðrún1/10/2015, 9:23:47 PM9 votes

Am I the only one who finds it ironic that the OP is an Akali main?

Nagirah1/10/2015, 7:04:06 PM9 votes

For a second I thought you were going to say that Zed's Shurukens should have a snare. Whew got scared... good suggestions though!

hobomann21/11/2015, 7:21:08 PM7 votes

many people dont realize that assassins

1.should not have a easy time last hitting

2.should not have insane amounts of AoE(innately) and ESPECIALLY when there manaless

3.should be risky(aka: RESPECT TOWERS)

Ellphi1/11/2015, 12:35:13 AM7 votes

Lol this would effectively remove him from the game.

Why the hell would anyone want to play Zed if you limit his mobility and remove his waveclear? Might as well play fukin Syndra, just button mash until you land a stun then press R. GG.

hobomann21/10/2015, 6:09:09 PM5 votes

W:no longer gives bonus AD

GREAT NERF ADDITION

srlcy? what was the purpose of the bonus AD its just there like yasuos double crit,just being there to give obligatory damage increases cause REASONS

Flamewing12341/11/2015, 12:22:31 AM5 votes

Stop this nonsense Zed is fine they way he is. There are more important matters that need to be handled. CoughreksaiCough

Decrit1/10/2015, 4:48:18 PM4 votes

Probably not the right right changes that can make Zed a better champ overrall, but looks good ( at least point 2 was already discussed, numbers more or less).

GottaGoToSpace1/10/2015, 6:17:12 PM4 votes

I agree with these changes, and think they'd give Zed a lot more risk to play without decreasing his reward excessively. However, I think 4 seconds on his mark might be a bit too much of a delay, considering that he'd have pretty much 0 chance of surviving in a teamfight. I think 2.5-3 seconds of delay or allowing him to warp as soon as the mark reaches lethal damage would be more reasonable limits.

warpenguin5551/10/2015, 6:30:33 PM4 votes

maybe make it so zeds ult at max rank allows him to instantly use his ults shadow like he can right now

Azukus1/11/2015, 5:23:41 AM4 votes

I only agree with 3. The other two are just horrible, in my opinion.

DarkLarvitar1/10/2015, 6:34:20 PM3 votes

i support this

RayMkII1/11/2015, 4:30:12 PM3 votes

Logged in just to upvote this. Very reasonable, very intelligent. Kudos.

Dengeden1/11/2015, 9:28:42 AM2 votes

Hmmmm, are you implying Zeds should max E for wave clear and Q for poke? If that's the case, he should get a bigger AoE on it. Cuz let's be real here: If you gut his wave clear, you make him completely unviable. It makes his split push mediocre because the wave needs to hit the tower first (and fast). It also forces him to rely on his team for wave clear. That makes him even more of a champion who sits back and waits for his team to do damage. He can't exactly ult the back line (mid game) either because you removed the option of him jumping out. There's a good reason why most, if not all, champions have waveclear (Lux has her Q and ult).

  1. would be a good way to start things off, he doesn't need the good early game it offers him.
Mistress Madoka1/12/2015, 4:23:51 AM2 votes

What I See in this thread:

OP: Guys here's an Idea to make Zed More Balanced!

Zed Mains: FUCK YOU FUCKIGN SCRUB GIT GUD DON'T TOUCH MY ZED

Non-Zed Mains: PLZ RITO DO THIS

And People wonder why this community has the negative Stereotype of "Everyone is toxic to Everyone"

Now, For my Comment on the OP:

I Like your Ideas, But I can see them Easily Making Zed Unusable or Making him just simply be OP in another Role (I remember someone Said Jungle)

I wouldn't Mind Seeing Zeds Actually have to Last hit Properly.

Similar nerfs Should be Applied to Akali and Lee Sin Needs a fuckton of Working on, too.

However, Half of the Zed mains in here mention Katarina. I am in NO WAY a Kat Main, but I can Say that She's Really not a Huge Problem. Yes, Her burst is Stupid High, But There's a Ton of Counterplay. The easiest Counterplay to Katarina: Annie Just be Annie. You Win.

Ulric Greatsword1/12/2015, 8:15:02 PM2 votes

This is an excellent suggestion for fixing Zed, because it gives him more focus on his assassin traits.

Adeyemon1/11/2015, 8:49:54 PM2 votes

3) His passive no longer works on minions. the shadow is about iffy but this and I am cool

The Fire on Fire1/11/2015, 4:35:30 PM1 votes

This nerf is sad. Really sad. Zed can't last hit anymore unless you have runes. I agree with the ulti balance, cause it can get people confused at early levels.

Vertanium1/11/2015, 7:24:28 PM1 votes

Personally I like these Changes Except for the Shuriken change. Only being able to hit 2 people will make his already subpar teamfighting even worse. If Riot just flat out nerfs zed then he will just become bad because an hourglass rush will still shut him down. (or a kayle or liss pick) Personally Zed isnt a huge problem exept for that anyway. Ghostblade definitely needs a price increase though. Its Something like 86% gold efficent without taking into consideration the Active and it buliding out of Avarice Blade. With those 2 things it become Almost 200% gold efficent. Check LoLwiki if you don't believe me. Edit: After Reading A lot more comments on this thread. Edit:Why is everyone Complainig about Costs on him?? for most of the game he will go out of energy If he spams unless maxes W second, and then he is VERY reliant on Q damage. Akali is the same way. And she Maxes her energy return first and it doesn't rely on her hitting 2 Skillshots on the same person. And Kat Has the same problems. You cannot effectively dodge any of her skills. She towerdives just as well, and If she bursts a squishy Then she at least gets a double. Did I mention the she has absolutely NO resource whatsoever.

Tl:dr I like everything but the Q change and If you want to talk about not having resource Problems Akali and Kat are just as bad.